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#Septagon

1/2/2013 5:10:47 AM
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A huge problem with this community

Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died. Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website. Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=26466683]do this[/url]. It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten [url=http://www.bungie.net/Help/content_viewer.aspx?link=conduct]that being a jerk is a bad thing.[/url] Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76620787]Just look through a few[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76616824]pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.[/url] Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone. This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links? The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts? I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people. I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask. You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kickimanjaro [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pulse Cloud Y'all should read Saramago's "Blindness". [/quote]While that presents an interesting scenario, it provides no solution--spoiler alert: the blindness leaves inexplicably. Should we revolt against guards who have abandoned us? No, because they have not. Should we break off into small groups to survive? Some might say that we already have with Private Groups. Point being, Saramago's [i]Blindness[/i] painted a bleak picture of containment and deprivation, a picture that could be compared to what some see happening with the Flood and the administration and moderation. Rather than taking such a disparaging look at our situation, let us rather attempt to find a solution. I propose that we as a community encourage good behavior by using the report button when necessary. It is then up to the moderation staff to take these reports into consideration and pass judgement. We have the power, let's exercise it.[/quote] Hah, you should read "Seeing".

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  • The problems that we are facing right now are beyond our borders. What we are witnessing right now is the embodiment of these social issues. In my opinion, we can't anything to combat these problems. The only solution is a ban. However people will make alts. The best thing we can do as a community is ignore the jerks. So what if there insulting you on a forum? Be the bigger person by ignoring them. Don't tunnel to their level by becoming a jerk. If that doesn't work. I don't know what will.

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  • Well that made me want to go see the Hobbit again.

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  • Like a few people have said, a computer game off topic forum is probably going to be one of the most volatile places to hold a disscusion on the internet. But if people arnt reporting stuff its probably because people arnt offended/affected by it. People (including myself) tend to report malicious links or an OP that targets a particular person or group of people (They seem to be the posts that are consistantly reported). I dont think people who target an idea is that bad, even if it sounds like it was written by a 12 year old on a sugar rush. Sure it can be annoying if someone says 'your idea/outlook is stupid and you should feel stupid' or something to that affect, but I wouldnt say its a problem. Its a fact people will disagree with you in life, some people are worse at expressing disagreement than others. Unless someone tries to sabotage you outwith the parameters of the thread, I dont see it as a major problem and has to be expected if you are presenting your thoughts to a bunch of strangers on a high traffic internet forum targeted mainly for people in their late teens.

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  • I see this as self-creating (whether willfully or innocently, I can not say) self-perpetuating, self-feeding and impossible to ignore drama. If one is aware that they have a persona (famous or infamous), or are known to others, then complain that "I am recognized and treated differently (differently than I desire for certain) when I go out among the common folk" I am hearing a little too much "woe is me, why is my fame/infamy causing such a disruption? Boo hoo hooo. Save me Sir Knight from those who treat me as they choose and not as I would have them" And when I look around, see mud (and poo) being slung, I don't see anyone cloaked in white, rising above the mayhem and refusing to participate. Roll in the dirt with dogs, and the fleas are inevitable. If any member feels that "I don't have to take that crap and so, I will give it back as good or better", then that member still hasn't figured "it" out. IMO, this is more PGD (Private Group Drama) that is spilling into the mains. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76634839&postRepeater1-p=4#76635554]I, for one, am way too old for this crap[/url]. If it is clear that people "know who you are" or they "have an ax to grind because of something that happened in a private corner of our community" the open forum is not their "open season" on you, but neither is it your place to "rub it in the noses of the savages". If you want to be seen as "better", you're going to have to "BE better". And by that, I mean rising above argument and only entering/responding to proper and civil discussion. Ignore and move past the rest. No, I really AM serious. Let it all go, no matter how easy or simple it may seem to "put that ignoramus in their place and show them to never speak to you that way again", resist that temptation. Because when this comes to a head (and my instincts tell me it will soon) and the smoke comes rolling off of the mountain, the only ones who will be standing when the smoke clears will be those with no sword in their hand and no blood on their clothes. Damn, I watch the Hobbit once and I start sounding like freaking Gandalf. [Edited on 01.02.2013 7:04 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pulse Cloud Ugh, this thread is terrible and a representation of how true the OP is. This is not a nice place: the [i]very first[/i] reply was made just to cause the -blam!-storm that followed (and everyone happily fueled). I've read many comments saying The Flood is a "cesspit" and whatnot, and I agree: people act like they're in the worst corners of 4chan (there are some good people there). Apparently even Achronos agrees. That place is filled with hate, so I say just nuke it from your chair, Achronos. Nothing of value will be lost. It's sad that I know I will be attacked because of this post. Like I said, this is not a happy place to be in, with a supportive community and whatnot. You can argue most of the Internet is like this, and I agree, but it's only because most people aren't nice to eachother. I blame your parents. There are very nice people on the Internet, though, and some of them do come here. Y'all should read Saramago's "Blindness". P.S.: No, it's not [i]ironic[/i] that I'm complaining and yet being such a downer and an aggressive prick. I'm not complaining at all, because there is nothing that can be done. This is not a matter of choice or rule enforcing, it's a matter of education, of how you, in your deep self, are and think. It's getting worse, though: PewDiePie saying "molestation" [the actual word is filtered] every few seconds and kids laughing hysterically; other decent channels making molestation jokes, people complaining and then being called out because molestation jokes are totally funny and OK because "it's the Internet!", etc. Also, this place will stay exactly how it is, because banning 99% of a "community" would not be a good move.[/quote] Actually the Septagon was a pretty nice place, I didn't come across anybody hating on each other until a few days ago when these type of threads popped up. All this arguing is pointless unless a conclusion and a plan of action can be drawn up. Personally I think (judging from people's responses here) that a few more ninjas would help since a fair number haven't been as active due to the darkness. As somebody previously mentioned it'd help if they were from a European timezone. I doubt anything will be done on the matter, perhaps things will get better with bungie.next but since there is no ETA on that we are left with the status quo.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pulse Cloud That place is filled with hate, so I say just nuke it from your chair, Achronos. Nothing of value will be lost. [/quote] This completely undermined your entire point. You want people to be nice to each other, but dont care if an entire forum is "nuked" because you dont like some people in it? Hmmm

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  • We have the play nice rule, so what more can be done about this problem? It's not like we can make people be nice to each other 24/7 over an internet forum.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 Subtle references to Sapphire in every thread created by those in charge there are starting to piss me off.[/quote]In their defense, they are members of the community and have leadership experience because of said group. It is only natural that they would reference their experience when debating a point, and this means referencing their leadership of Sapphire. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Pulse Cloud Y'all should read Saramago's "Blindness". [/quote]While that presents an interesting scenario, it provides no solution--spoiler alert: the blindness leaves inexplicably. Should we revolt against guards who have abandoned us? No, because they have not. Should we break off into small groups to survive? Some might say that we already have with Private Groups. Point being, Saramago's [i]Blindness[/i] painted a bleak picture of containment and deprivation, a picture that could be compared to what some see happening with the Flood and the administration and moderation. Rather than taking such a disparaging look at our situation, let us rather attempt to find a solution. I propose that we as a community encourage good behavior by using the report button when necessary. It is then up to the moderation staff to take these reports into consideration and pass judgement. We have the power, let's exercise it. [Edited on 01.02.2013 6:56 AM PST]

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  • Ugh, this thread is terrible and a representation of how true the OP is. This is not a nice place: the [i]very first[/i] reply was made just to cause the -blam!-storm that followed (and everyone happily fueled). I've read many comments saying The Flood is a "cesspit" and whatnot, and I agree: people act like they're in the worst corners of 4chan (there are some good people there). Apparently even Achronos agrees. That place is filled with hate, so I say just nuke it from your chair, Achronos. Nothing of value will be lost. It's sad that I know I will be attacked because of this post. Like I said, this is not a happy place to be in, with a supportive community and whatnot. You can argue most of the Internet is like this, and I agree, but it's only because most people aren't nice to eachother. I blame your parents. There are very nice people on the Internet, though, and some of them do come here. Y'all should read Saramago's "Blindness". P.S.: No, it's not [i]ironic[/i] that I'm complaining and yet being such a downer and an aggressive prick. I'm not complaining at all, because there is nothing that can be done. This is not a matter of choice or rule enforcing, it's a matter of education, of how you, in your deep self, are and think. It's getting worse, though: PewDiePie saying "molestation" [the actual word is filtered] every few seconds and kids laughing hysterically; other decent channels making molestation jokes, people complaining and then being called out because molestation jokes are totally funny and OK because "it's the Internet!", etc. Also, this place will stay exactly how it is, because banning 99% of a "community" would not be a good move.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ToastyWaffles [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 Subtle references to Sapphire in every thread created by those in charge there are starting to piss me off.[/quote] Are there references on the OP to Sapphire? I'd genuinely like to know.[/quote] Did I say the OP?[/quote] Ah, my mistake.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Verachi You talk against hostility but your OP is hostile. Interesting.....[/quote]

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  • I'd be more interested in the cause and effect than just the effect. There is a huge problem with this community, but you're just analyzing what came of it. That's not that difficult to do.

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  • I see a problem where users do not use the tools at their disposal to mark rule breaking content. Until the community changes, how can we expect anything else to change?

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  • I think that bans should be harsher on repeat offenders, people seem to get of too light and have 14 days they return and continue there behaviour, especially causing an influence on other members - but the subject matters of the threads doesn't always help.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ToastyWaffles [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 Subtle references to Sapphire in every thread created by those in charge there are starting to piss me off.[/quote] Are there references on the OP to Sapphire? I'd genuinely like to know.[/quote] Did I say the OP?

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  • I'm a huge Tattletale. Throughout an entire thread, as well. Not just the OP. I use the report button but I realize that a certain amount of people have to click it as well, in order for it to get put into the cue. Instead of relying on others to report it as well, I'll just message a Mod.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AcedannyK 7 New members will learn to become thick-skinned to them - just like everyone else.[/quote]What about old members who still get mad at everything which isn't unreservedly positive?[/quote] They must be taught how to deal with it, or just live with it or alternatively (if they really can't handle it) leave the site. I've seen a few people do it.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 Subtle references to Sapphire in every thread created by those in charge there are starting to piss me off.[/quote] Are there references on the OP to Sapphire? I'd genuinely like to know.

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  • Subtle references to Sapphire in every thread created by those in charge there are starting to piss me off. This isn't a forum to advertise in, regardless of how sneaky you think you are being.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AcedannyK 7 New members will learn to become thick-skinned to them - just like everyone else.[/quote]What about old members who still get mad at everything which isn't unreservedly positive?

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  • New members will learn to become thick-skinned to them - just like everyone else.

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  • ITT: people need to grow a thicker skin

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  • Wannabe mods are out in force today i see.

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  • While I can see your concerns, I've got to say... I much prefer the way that Bnet is run when compared with Halo Waypoint. You practically get banned for criticizing another person's opinion (such as giving a counter argument) under grounds of flaming or something. I find Bnet to actually be quite tame, save a forum that is for a new game that has launched recently (as we always know how those go for the first few months)... and The Flood, well honestly, I kind of expect to find less intelligent things in there... but again, that forum is for general discussion so topics that come up are sometimes way out to lunch... as are those who post in them ;). Anyway, like I said I can see your point to an extent, but I do not pretend to think that it is as big of a problem as you seem to claim. It is what it is, you can't get rid of idiots on the internet, and overall Bnet is one of the better gaming communities out there in my opinion. Cheers

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gaara444 Why? I hardly ever visit the place, but what's so bad about Sapphire? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0gbinlad3n This thread has nothing to do with private groups, but Harlow is the admin of Sapphire, which tends to inspire rage in many. [/quote][/quote] I don't know honestly. The purpose of this thread has been derailed because of internet drama, and I agree that it's silly. I've considered making a thread about internet drama, but that might just create more of it. [Edited on 01.02.2013 5:19 AM PST]

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