[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NEO131X This is the "problem" when there are multiple endings to something that has a sequel.* EDIT: How the hell am I an "Honorable member", I only have, like, two posts.[/quote] Went a certain amount of time with warnings or bans.

This is the "problem" when there are multiple endings to something that has a sequel.* EDIT: How the hell am I an "Honorable member", I only have, like, two posts. [Edited on 06.24.2012 8:43 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X Delta Xero X It's been said before, game canon overrides book canon.[/quote] Yup, it might not be something I lie but I know it's true. I wish I could ignore that here and with diablo 3, but refusing to accept something won't work in the long run.

Remember REACH is following the story of Noble Team and the events they paticipated in "The Fall of REACH". The book "Fall Of REACH" is following the story of Master Chief. Master Chief been one of the best Saprtans, was on the front line and saw much of the bulk of the invasion before having to retweet, once his comrades lost control of the MAC Guns Battery located on the ground if I recall. Noble Team, had their own little side mission, which was to collect Cortana and take her to the Pillar of the Autumn, and they stoped the first carrier (where George Sacrifieced himself). The book and the game are both taken place on REACH at the same time. Remeber REACH is a whole world, and the Invasion is happening all over it.

I like the Reach story. You follow Noble Team and they are not always on the front line. They are in charge of the safety of Cortana so they are not always going to be on the front line. I agree though that Halo: Reach may not have seen a large scale battle that would have been amazing I was really happy with it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Because, Parangosky is an IDIOT. According to the data drops, her and her other admiral friend got mad when the army destroyed the Long Night of Solace, because they had NO IDEA ONI was going to try to capture it. ONI kept everybody in the dark so their plan could continue as predicted, and it backfired heavily. And to sell the deception they had to keep the fleet there so the Covenant would take the bait. About the quote, I never said it was word for word, and people who also read the reprints informed me of the change. Perhaps you've read it recently and can deny that, or anybody else with the reprint Fall of Reach. But I remember clearly being told some of Halsey's lines got changed, and the manner of the change directly hints toward Halo Reach events. Edit: I highly doubt that was the ONLY change concerning battle of Reach. As for Jun and Emile, as I like to think recently. If they didn't matter so much, then why not just remove them? Oh wait, if you just *yoink* them out of the story, gaps are there. Humanity still lost. Unless you think you know, New Alexandria and the mission before it magically never happened. The book is good for the space version, the game the ground version. Unless you buy that the UNSC military stronghold of Reach DIDN'T MOBILIZE ANY GROUND FORCES UPON COVENANT ATTACKING. Seriously, they didn't mobilize any forces at all. UNSC command, and the primary armory were overrun within 2 hours, by a severly depleted Covenant landing force. (IIRC, Thousands of dropships got turned into hundreds, yet all these top priority UNSC structures got overwhelmed within hours?) When did the Covenant regroup? Figure out what they had? Figure out where the hell they had to go? It's like the UNSC placed bright neon signs over their more important buildings, and had all the guards go party. UNSC aircraft could've ripped into those dropships and depleted the numbers further, yet UNSC air support is never once mentioned bar a single bombing run. UNSC ground forces are likewise, rarely mentioned. Already built defenses are non-existent, AA isn't around, and the Super MAC generator bunkers are described as being "The permacrete (Ithink) is still fully drying". Aka, wasn't even there until they went "Oh-blam!- rush to make a bunker!" Given the fact the UNSC regularly STOMPED the covenant on the ground, it's facepalm worthy.[/quote] 1. No, you REALLY can yank Emile and Jun out of the story. What did they accomplish/ The levels you have them as squadmates: Nightfall and PoA, they don't do jack. 2. In the BOOK Reach fell in a day in a half. It took the Army WEEKS and MONTHS to moblilize the US Army and Marine Corps in Desert Storm and even in Iraqi Freedom. You can't just MAGICALLY outfit thousands of Marines, vehicles, and aircraft in 20 minutes. 3. It's kind of hard to set up a command structure when thousands of 8 foot tall aliens are literally IN your command structure. Its like trying to set up a fire brigade to put out a fire across the state when a volcano has suddenly appeared in the firestation. 4. Yeah, thats how it is in the US Military too dude. there aren't exactly M1 ABRAMS parked in front of the Pentagon. The UNSC shares US military docterine of off shore bases to protect the mainland with Reach being the mainland. Its just like why the US Navy didn't happen to have all it's fighters scrambled on Dec 7th 1941. Reach was pooop. FoR was gooood. [/quote] You can't compare a country with an entire planet (Which by the way is the military hub of humanity). Apparently, it is more important to the UNSC to just dish out their ODSTS, anti-tank mines and Skyhawks with four 50mm cannons against a single spartan than to defend the planet from hundreds of dropships (which to be honest is not enough troopers to really overrun Reach if we do some math). Bungie even released data about how much manpower Reach had (during 2550) [quote]Military Power: Reach (excerpt from CAA FACTBOOK [l.update 1.5.2550]) Total Available Military Manpower: 385,421,100 Total Land Assets: 58,430 Total Naval Assets: 1,209 (T); 75 (X) Total Air Assets: 11,050 Serviceable Airports: 1,246 Defense Budget: cR. 38,287,000,000 [2548] While Earth is rightly seen as the UNSC's commercial, political, and cultural center; Reach is undeniably the hub of its military power. The Eridani fleet is a full strength Carrier Group with the supercarrier UNSC Trafalgar at its core. The planet itself has a semi mobile array of 20 Orbital Defense Platforms, and they are in turn defended by multiple wings of single ships and tactical multi-role craft.[/quote] All of that, overrun in a couple of hours? Are you kidding me? Let's not forget that the Covenant already knew where ALL the important places were located the moment they jumped into the system, which without Reach's explanation makes them out to be mystic aliens whom are omnipotent. The fact is, The Fall of Reach's invasion was pretty unrealistic to be honest.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Because, Parangosky is an IDIOT. According to the data drops, her and her other admiral friend got mad when the army destroyed the Long Night of Solace, because they had NO IDEA ONI was going to try to capture it. ONI kept everybody in the dark so their plan could continue as predicted, and it backfired heavily. And to sell the deception they had to keep the fleet there so the Covenant would take the bait. About the quote, I never said it was word for word, and people who also read the reprints informed me of the change. Perhaps you've read it recently and can deny that, or anybody else with the reprint Fall of Reach. But I remember clearly being told some of Halsey's lines got changed, and the manner of the change directly hints toward Halo Reach events. Edit: I highly doubt that was the ONLY change concerning battle of Reach. As for Jun and Emile, as I like to think recently. If they didn't matter so much, then why not just remove them? Oh wait, if you just *yoink* them out of the story, gaps are there. Humanity still lost. Unless you think you know, New Alexandria and the mission before it magically never happened. The book is good for the space version, the game the ground version. Unless you buy that the UNSC military stronghold of Reach DIDN'T MOBILIZE ANY GROUND FORCES UPON COVENANT ATTACKING. Seriously, they didn't mobilize any forces at all. UNSC command, and the primary armory were overrun within 2 hours, by a severly depleted Covenant landing force. (IIRC, Thousands of dropships got turned into hundreds, yet all these top priority UNSC structures got overwhelmed within hours?) When did the Covenant regroup? Figure out what they had? Figure out where the hell they had to go? It's like the UNSC placed bright neon signs over their more important buildings, and had all the guards go party. UNSC aircraft could've ripped into those dropships and depleted the numbers further, yet UNSC air support is never once mentioned bar a single bombing run. UNSC ground forces are likewise, rarely mentioned. Already built defenses are non-existent, AA isn't around, and the Super MAC generator bunkers are described as being "The permacrete (Ithink) is still fully drying". Aka, wasn't even there until they went "Oh-blam!- rush to make a bunker!" Given the fact the UNSC regularly STOMPED the covenant on the ground, it's facepalm worthy.[/quote] 1. No, you REALLY can yank Emile and Jun out of the story. What did they accomplish/ The levels you have them as squadmates: Nightfall and PoA, they don't do jack. 2. In the BOOK Reach fell in a day in a half. It took the Army WEEKS and MONTHS to moblilize the US Army and Marine Corps in Desert Storm and even in Iraqi Freedom. You can't just MAGICALLY outfit thousands of Marines, vehicles, and aircraft in 20 minutes. 3. It's kind of hard to set up a command structure when thousands of 8 foot tall aliens are literally IN your command structure. Its like trying to set up a fire brigade to put out a fire across the state when a volcano has suddenly appeared in the firestation. 4. Yeah, thats how it is in the US Military too dude. there aren't exactly M1 ABRAMS parked in front of the Pentagon. The UNSC shares US military docterine of off shore bases to protect the mainland with Reach being the mainland. Its just like why the US Navy didn't happen to have all it's fighters scrambled on Dec 7th 1941. Reach was pooop. FoR was gooood.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sandtrap [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.[/quote] Except us Mass Effect fans only got a dickslap for our rallying cries. The Extended Cut doesn't change their original ending, but merely explains some things. Basically all they did was fill a few potholes in the road with gravel.[/quote]What was most disappointing for me was that they turned the Reapers, a race of sentient starships that had a mysterious goal that organic minds can't comprehend, into something stupid that's EASILY comprehendable by even the stupidest mind.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jack0fhearts [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement.[/quote] No matter the technological advancements, if the media didn't want you to know about all the plights and wars in Africa, you wouldn't have a clue.[/quote] Does ONI control the UNSC media? I suppose it's plausible, since they're under an emergency military government, but I'd think regular citizens would be pissed, especially since they, up until the battle of Earth, think all the fighting as been in the Outer Colonies.[/quote] Section Two is the one tasked with media managing, said section was the one that made the Spartan II program become public to improve morale and also tweaked the information regarding the war to make it look less severe (false reports, making the scenery less brutal with image manipulation, etc).

It's canon makes more sense than the book's.

Meh, I take more the novel as canon.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sandtrap [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.[/quote] Except us Mass Effect fans only got a dickslap for our rallying cries. The Extended Cut doesn't change their original ending, but merely explains some things. Basically all they did was fill a few potholes in the road with gravel.[/quote] And as others said, ME3 legit did not produce what was said to be produce.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.[/quote] Except us Mass Effect fans only got a dickslap for our rallying cries. The Extended Cut doesn't change their original ending, but merely explains some things. Basically all they did was fill a few potholes in the road with gravel.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jack0fhearts [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement.[/quote] No matter the technological advancements, if the media didn't want you to know about all the plights and wars in Africa, you wouldn't have a clue.[/quote] Does ONI control the UNSC media? I suppose it's plausible, since they're under an emergency military government, but I'd think regular citizens would be pissed, especially since they, up until the battle of Earth, think all the fighting as been in the Outer Colonies.[/quote] They control what goes into it concerning the covenant. At least, most of that. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X Delta Xero X Wasn't it confirmed that Reach's campaign was merely a retelling of eye witness accounts, surveillance footage, and other sources not directly from Noble Team?[/quote] No that's just desperate fans trying desperately to rationalize Reach's "story." OT: Unfortunately I have to consider it canon. I'd much prefer not too, but I have too. I just find it difficult since it voids a lot of what happened in reach, as well as in some senses makes the rest of the story following it impossible, as we understand it.[/quote] "Says it voids most of the book." "343 and bungie both say otherwise." While you may call use who don't stomp and rage at Reach "Desperate fans foolishly trying to rationalize it." I call those who do stomp at rage at it AND stomp at rage at us who do like it "Desperate fans who wanted a carbon copy of the book, which, IIRC, Bungie outright said during development that Halo Reach was NOT going to cover the Spartan II's on Reach, and their battles." I've yet to see HOW it makes the rest of Halo canon impossible to understand. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SurreallFeal [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka What I'm reading is pretty much: Reach sucked cause it depicted the space war horribly. And... TFoR sucked cause it depicted ground combat horribly. [/quote]And First Strike goes into the ground war in more detail, which shores up what the original book lacked.[/quote] First Strike also maintained that the UNSC ground forces and bases on Reach fell as if it was a rush/blitz tactic used by the Covenant and they were completely unaware it was coming. Which is false as they had at least what, a few hours minimum in the Fall of Reach?

Were it so easy...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka What I'm reading is pretty much: Reach sucked cause it depicted the space war horribly. And... TFoR sucked cause it depicted ground combat horribly. [/quote]And First Strike goes into the ground war in more detail, which shores up what the original book lacked.

What I'm reading is pretty much: Reach sucked cause it depicted the space war horribly. And... TFoR sucked cause it depicted ground combat horribly. I have to agree with both of these statements, but from my point of view it is criminal to change canon. Criminal. I should not be done, even if it supposedly improves something. You'll just have to live with it. So when I -blam!- about not wanting Reach to be canon, I do so mostly cause I don't want to see something similar in the future. It's more about the concept. The story in TFoR was way better told also. The game had such a boring plot. I guess mostly cause it actally was two plots; first the slipspace bomb, and secondly Cortana. It felt really unfocused. Go all in on one plot instead of two halfassed. [Edited on 06.24.2012 10:03 AM PDT]

I agree, I figured Bungie would have at least went with it a little, but I do like the story and message behind Halo: Reach, but if they had based it on [i]The Fall of Reach[/i], that would have made it even better. (Though I still don't like the fact of Spartan IIIs on Reach, that makes no sense at all.) I did enjoy the game, and even though it didn't go with Eric's version, it was still good. But I loved the Bungie/343i message they put through the end.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X Delta Xero X Wasn't it confirmed that Reach's campaign was merely a retelling of eye witness accounts, surveillance footage, and other sources not directly from Noble Team?[/quote] No that's just desperate fans trying desperately to rationalize Reach's "story." OT: Unfortunately I have to consider it canon. I'd much prefer not too, but I have too. I just find it difficult since it voids a lot of what happened in reach, as well as in some senses makes the rest of the story following it impossible, as we understand it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jack0fhearts [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement.[/quote] No matter the technological advancements, if the media didn't want you to know about all the plights and wars in Africa, you wouldn't have a clue.[/quote] Does ONI control the UNSC media? I suppose it's plausible, since they're under an emergency military government, but I'd think regular citizens would be pissed, especially since they, up until the battle of Earth, think all the fighting as been in the Outer Colonies.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] This. Bungie did it, it was at that time, their baby, so they can dress it how they want to.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement.[/quote] No matter the technological advancements, if the media didn't want you to know about all the plights and wars in Africa, you wouldn't have a clue.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X Delta Xero X Wasn't it confirmed that Reach's campaign was merely a retelling of eye witness accounts, surveillance footage, and other sources not directly from Noble Team?[/quote]Well it's not like they could get a direct quote or anything from Noble Team. They're all, except for Jun who may or may not be alive.[/quote] But we'll never know because instead of taking about all of five minutes and going "Jun got Halsey to castle base, then disappeared while fighting the Covenant to let her get inside/luring them away." they went "Nope, we'll never actually finish that piece of lore." Hence my statements that anything they haven't explicitly said they'll answer, 343 has gone "f-that" to actually dealing with. (Spirit of fire, grey team, black team, Buck's squad). [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE Considering how Auntie Dot was connected to Noble Team at all times, ONI would know exactly what went on at all times.[/quote] And helm cams from the Spartans who didn't lose their helms/get it damaged. They might not have 100% of the answers, but they'd have a lot of what happened.

Considering how Auntie Dot was connected to Noble Team at all times, ONI would know exactly what went on at all times.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X Delta Xero X Wasn't it confirmed that Reach's campaign was merely a retelling of eye witness accounts, surveillance footage, and other sources not directly from Noble Team?[/quote]Well it's not like they could get a direct quote or anything from Noble Team. They're all, except for Jun who may or may not be alive.

Wasn't it confirmed that Reach's campaign was merely a retelling of eye witness accounts, surveillance footage, and other sources not directly from Noble Team?