Any1 willing to gift me blue flame? !!! :( plz

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Cat's shields were down cause *drumroll* THE GLASSING BEAM. Radiation overload. Not how NONE of Noble Team's shields went up after putting helms on. So if you accuse Kat of not activating her shields, then you must do so for Jun and Carter (though I'm sure many would jump at the chance to call them all stupid and derptastic.) [/quote] Then why did the elevator work?[/quote] EMP resistant equipment, shields are weak against EMP.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron Cat's shields were down cause *drumroll* THE GLASSING BEAM. Radiation overload. Not how NONE of Noble Team's shields went up after putting helms on. So if you accuse Kat of not activating her shields, then you must do so for Jun and Carter (though I'm sure many would jump at the chance to call them all stupid and derptastic.) [/quote] Then why did the elevator work?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Salty27 Those 15 ships at the beginning of Halo-2 didn't wipe out Earth's fleet, it was a small recon group. The Covenant didn't expect us to be on Earth, that why Regret's fleet was so tiny. Now at the end of Halo-2 and the beginning of Halo-3 a Truth's fleet showed up and wrecked 90% of Earth's defenses. Also bear in mind while Earth was under siege the Brutes and Elites were duking it out so the Covenant couldn't commit it's full forces to Earth, which is why the Truth's fleet was concentrated over the Portal in New Mombasa.[/quote] Actually, Truth's reinforcement fleet arrived within hours of Regret leaving the system.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Old Salty27 Then there is Noble Team; the least spartany spartans ever. For super soldiers they were portrayed like a bunch of poorly trained army recruits; in the cutscenes they let their guard down a lot, moved kind of slow considering how fast and powerful they are supposed to be. None of the characters were developed to the point that when they died you'd even care. On that note some of Noble Team's deaths didn't make any sense. Why weren't Cat's shields up when she got shot, for that matter what the hell was a drop ships doing so close to a glassing zone?! And Carter, they don't even show how he got injured between Sword Base and Pillar of Autumn. How does he go from jumping into a pelican one second and bleeding out the next? I'm generally impressed with Bungie's story telling, but Reach was just bad.[/quote] Okay then, I counter the "moving slow compared to what Spartans should move like." with a "Chief moved just as slow in his cutscenes." Letting down guard... That'd work. If they frequently got their asses handed to them. Which... wasn't frequent. "You'd not care about them." Maybe you, but some did. Cat's shields were down cause *drumroll* THE GLASSING BEAM. Radiation overload. Not how NONE of Noble Team's shields went up after putting helms on. So if you accuse Kat of not activating her shields, then you must do so for Jun and Carter (though I'm sure many would jump at the chance to call them all stupid and derptastic.) The phantom most likely redirected after intercepting the human comm chatter. I'd say for the very reasons of getting a Spartan hit before moving off. The popular theory is the field Marshall who shot her was the same one from the first mission, and the very last enemy you fight before getting on the Mass Driver. Carter's wound was the ONLY one that was really worthy of a "Why the heck did that happen?" The entire situation really should've had an extended cutscene for ending of package or start of PoA, or a mini cutscene/level between the two (or even a full fledged mission maybe. depending how it's done).

Those 15 ships at the beginning of Halo-2 didn't wipe out Earth's fleet, it was a small recon group. The Covenant didn't expect us to be on Earth, that why Regret's fleet was so tiny. Now at the end of Halo-2 and the beginning of Halo-3 a Truth's fleet showed up and wrecked 90% of Earth's defenses. Also bear in mind while Earth was under siege the Brutes and Elites were duking it out so the Covenant couldn't commit it's full forces to Earth, which is why the Truth's fleet was concentrated over the Portal in New Mombasa. [Edited on 06.25.2012 6:02 PM PDT]

Nobody seemed to mind when 15 ships were able to take on Earth's fleet...

I know. I was saying that the events in the story make no sense if you view Reach as it's own story separate from the books and the data drops. If you write a story then you need to write a journal and a bunch of data drops to explain what was going on in the original story then you didn't do a very good job in the first place. Yes, that was a jab at Bungie coming from the guy that normally upholds Bungie's canon over 343's. Reach's story sucked. [url]http://memegenerator.net/instance/17270836[/url] [Edited on 06.25.2012 5:54 PM PDT]

Do you guys even read the rest of the thread before posting? In the last two pages the same issue has been bought up and answered multiple times and yet you keep bringing it up. The Fleet was not attacking the Long Night of Solace because ONI KEPT THEM AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GOD DAMN PLANET SO THEY COULD CAPTURE THE SHIP. The Army got too gun happy though and decided to blow it to hell, that's when it got ugly for Reach.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X Delta Xero X Wasn't it confirmed that Reach's campaign was merely a retelling of eye witness accounts, surveillance footage, and other sources not directly from Noble Team?[/quote] No that's just desperate fans trying desperately to rationalize Reach's "story." OT: Unfortunately I have to consider it canon. I'd much prefer not too, but I have too. I just find it difficult since it voids a lot of what happened in reach, as well as in some senses makes the rest of the story following it impossible, as we understand it.[/quote] I've replayed Reach's campaign recently trying to give it another shot as it's own story separate from the books, but even with that mindset the story still stunk. Reach as a military hub, wasn't portrayed well at all; a handful of frigates defending the planet against a super-carrier and a few corvettes? Where are the cruisers and ODPs? Defence platforms are mentioned in the game multiple times, one takes out a corvette fleeing from Sword Base. Why weren't any of them aimed at the LNOS? There was a single cruiser stationed at Reach and it was sitting pretty in dry dock the whole battle. Even the UNSC ground forces weren't portrayed to be very impressive; Tip of The Spear showed a decent defensive deployment of troops, but falls short of what you'd expect of a planet that essentially a giant military base. Then there is Noble Team; the least spartany spartans ever. For super soldiers they were portrayed like a bunch of poorly trained army recruits; in the cutscenes they let their guard down a lot, moved kind of slow considering how fast and powerful they are supposed to be. None of the characters were developed to the point that when they died you'd even care. On that note some of Noble Team's deaths didn't make any sense. Why weren't Cat's shields up when she got shot, for that matter what the hell was a drop ships doing so close to a glassing zone?! And Carter, they don't even show how he got injured between Sword Base and Pillar of Autumn. How does he go from jumping into a pelican one second and bleeding out the next? I'm generally impressed with Bungie's story telling, but Reach was just bad.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mr Owen L I hate the Storyline of Halo:Reach It ruined for me the fall of reach. It is so full of contradictions and just stupid things. It paints ONI as idiots 'how about we let a stealthed super carrier orbit reach and tell everyone there's nothing to worry about?! Hur durrrr' ' Lets draw the covenant to our most powerful planet' The planet that has 20 SMAC guns and a constant fleet of 100+ ships defending it that is surrounded in slipspace relays none of which can detect a covenant force landing on the planet or even exiting slipspace in the system. If we simply combine the book and games timeline the army was fighting off a covenant invasion whilst ONI and the navy thought it best to prep for Red Flag. [/quote] Hurr read the last page, ONI kept it a secret to the fleet, because as stated in the Data drops, Keyes would have jumped straight into the action without considering the mission at hand, something he did, what? a couple of days/weeks before at the battle of Sigma Octanus IV. Not to mention, the rest of the fleet would also try to destroy the ship, something that ONI DIDN'T WANT. The fact is, were it not for the Army and SpecWarGroup 3's gun-ho attitude, they would have been able to capture it and use it for Red Flag.

I hate the Storyline of Halo:Reach It ruined for me the fall of reach. It is so full of contradictions and just stupid things. It paints ONI as idiots 'how about we let a stealthed super carrier orbit reach and tell everyone there's nothing to worry about?! Hur durrrr' ' Lets draw the covenant to our most powerful planet' The planet that has 20 SMAC guns and a constant fleet of 100+ ships defending it that is surrounded in slipspace relays none of which can detect a covenant force landing on the planet or even exiting slipspace in the system. If we simply combine the book and games timeline the army was fighting off a covenant invasion whilst ONI and the navy thought it best to prep for Red Flag. The worst is the section about cortana splitting up and then being rejoined on the POA. The POA was in orbit in the middle of the battle for Reach a ship that can't survive re-entry ( as shown in Halo: the flood and Halo CE ) would drop and collect it. If it could reach the surface why did Fred and the other Spartan use a pelican to travel to the surface. My way of viewing Reach is it so it can still be canon in my eyes is that the story of Noble team is more Spartan propaganda by ONI to show there is hope. Noble team were just another squad of Spartans sent to their deaths on reach of which one was selected as a symbol of hope.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Am I to believe that Reaches biggest setback was due to a misunderstanding between the UNSC and the ONI? [/quote] Yes. Definitely an improvement over Nylund's story![/quote] It was better than the whole "Oh, we just got a call from one of our outposts saying that there's a hugeeee Covenant fleet coming, let's just sit around to play poker!"[/quote] Which is pretty much what the ground battle amounted to. Panicked calling in aid (Spartans) AFTER major locations have been lost. As for ONI, well it's not their fault they are being turned into Cerberus of Halo.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Am I to believe that Reaches biggest setback was due to a misunderstanding between the UNSC and the ONI? [/quote] Yes. Definitely an improvement over Nylund's story![/quote] It was better than the whole "Oh, we just got a call from one of our outposts saying that there's a hugeeee Covenant fleet coming, let's just sit around to play poker!"

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Am I to believe that Reaches biggest setback was due to a misunderstanding between the UNSC and the ONI? [/quote] Yes. Definitely an improvement over Nylund's story!

Unfortunately, the game's broken, full-of-plot-holes "canon" overrides the book's canon. Which is sad considering the book came out nearly 10 years before the game.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka The thing about Reach that disappoints me the most, is that the game doesn't follow the announcement [url=http://youtu.be/s3MabEog3yQ]teaser[/url], and the first [url=http://youtu.be/kbjavQHDwDw]trailer[/url]; the first version of the games intro. It would have been so much more logical to assume that a satellite would pick up the Covenant fleet just like in the teaser. Hell, they even have camera footage of the Super Carrier on LNoS! How did they mysteriously get invaded when they literally can see what's going on in their own space? Even a freakin Kinect would have picked up something! I don't care if Reach falls after a couple of days, it should however, fight with all assets, within those days. No bloody,[i] "wait what, the Covenant are on Reach?"[/i], cause that doesn't make sense. [/quote] Good job at not reading the last couple of pages whom are full of explanations about that.[/quote]Explanations? What explanations? The teaser and the trailer were cut, they did not happen. How can there be something that explains what did not happen. In the final game the Covenant had yet to be revealed at the point of the trailer. They were both just proof of concept. Unless you mean my point about the satellites/cameras. The ONIs secret mission to board the Super Carrier... Datadrops... I'm tired of seeing the ONI being used as a way to cover up anything and everything. The ONI does this, the ONI does that... Ugh! But ok, fair point, touché, the UNSC doesn't control a single camera, nor sensor, not even on their ships, yeah, that's very effective (look what happened). Am I to believe that Reaches biggest setback was due to a misunderstanding between the UNSC and the ONI? This isn't the first time there's been a secret mission to capture a Covenant ship.. Let me guess, they learnt from their mistakes the second time around, by letting the UNSC know? I just seems painfully obvious that the data drops were added in an attempt to make more sense of the situation, but just made it more complicated, arguably worse. Were they even available when the game shipped? Assuming that it wasn't possible to know that at the time, what happened in the game, left a bad taste in my mouth, and a retcon of a retcon does not suddenly justify what happened. If it was however, possible to know about the ONIs plan, they did a terrible job at making the story enjoyable just by playing the game. The game on its own does not make sense. I thought the games were supposed to be able to stand on their own? [Edited on 06.25.2012 8:23 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost I refuse to believe Noble Six exists but besides him, I don't mind the other Noble Team members. Though I do have some problems with Jun...[/quote] And why shouldn't Six exist? Because he got placed with a title in a trailer that upsets the "Chief pwns everything" belief?[/quote]I'm sure you notice I'm an Arbiter fan. I disliked playing as Chief but not as much as I dislike having to play long range games. I like going up close for combat (especially when the sniper is ineffective against high ranking enemies). Reach cqc is too dangerous on higher difficulties. When I hear 'hyper lethal vector', I see this incredibly bad-ass yet not invincible soldier 'killing like Zealots but walking like soldiers', to put it delicately. I get that feel in CE as well as in H2 (when turning on certain skulls). But in H3 and Reach, I do not. Instead, going up close to an enemy as Noble Six is far more riskier than going up close as Chief or Arbiter. Only the initial missions support stealth kills (Nightfall, LNoS rally point bravo). I appreciate a balance of stealth and power. CE had both, H2 had the potential for both, H3 had a little, ODST had a little, Reach had a little. [Edited on 06.25.2012 5:43 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka The thing about Reach that disappoints me the most, is that the game doesn't follow the announcement [url=http://youtu.be/s3MabEog3yQ]teaser[/url], and the first [url=http://youtu.be/kbjavQHDwDw]trailer[/url]; the first version of the games intro. It would have been so much more logical to assume that a satellite would pick up the Covenant fleet just like in the teaser. Hell, they even have camera footage of the Super Carrier on LNoS! How did they mysteriously get invaded when they literally can see what's going on in their own space? Even a freakin Kinect would have picked up something! I don't care if Reach falls after a couple of days, it should however, fight with all assets, within those days. No bloody,[i] "wait what, the Covenant are on Reach?"[/i], cause that doesn't make sense. [/quote] Good job at not reading the last couple of pages whom are full of explanations about that.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sliding Ghost I refuse to believe Noble Six exists but besides him, I don't mind the other Noble Team members. Though I do have some problems with Jun...[/quote] And why shouldn't Six exist? Because he got placed with a title in a trailer that upsets the "Chief pwns everything" belief?

I refuse to believe Noble Six exists but besides him, I don't mind the other Noble Team members. Though I do have some problems with Jun...

The thing about Reach that disappoints me the most, is that the game doesn't follow the announcement [url=http://youtu.be/s3MabEog3yQ]teaser[/url], and the first [url=http://youtu.be/kbjavQHDwDw]trailer[/url]; the first version of the games intro. It would have been so much more logical to assume that a satellite would pick up the Covenant fleet just like in the teaser. Hell, they even have camera footage of the Super Carrier on LNoS! How did they mysteriously get invaded when they literally can see what's going on in their own space? Even a freakin Kinect would have picked up something! I don't care if Reach falls after a couple of days, it should however, fight with all assets, within those days. No bloody,[i] "wait what, the Covenant are on Reach?"[/i], cause that doesn't make sense. [Edited on 06.25.2012 12:51 AM PDT]

i see it as a canon

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 1. No, you REALLY can yank Emile and Jun out of the story. What did they accomplish/ The levels you have them as squadmates: Nightfall and PoA, they don't do jack.[/quote] Setting a bomb, opening the door, manning the Mass driver so you can deliver the package to Keyes... I'd describe that as in there realm of "minor to major actions" And against, what about for the rest of the freaking game. That's probably a fair bit of dialogue and minor actions you are just ripping out. Again, tell me, if you just utterly remove Jun and Emile, WHO fills in those dialogue lines? Those actions (however minor or major). [quote]2. In the BOOK Reach fell in a day in a half. It took the Army WEEKS and MONTHS to moblilize the US Army and Marine Corps in Desert Storm and even in Iraqi Freedom. You can't just MAGICALLY outfit thousands of Marines, vehicles, and aircraft in 20 minutes.[/quote] If you are just then OUTFITTING your soldiers, that means they didn't have their gear beforehand. Your example is of a literal "We got to give everybody their give and SHIP them overseas." This example is a "EVERYBODY GRAB YOUR AND ARMOR FROM THE ARMORY AND GET OUT THERE!". Again, those dropships magically overran several major locations without a LICK of interference from the UNSC air forces. Or already built AA guns (like on that Saber launch platform). Hell, hundreds of dropships vs hundreds of dedicated aircraft, the dropships die. Skyhawks and Longswords would've ripped them apart, but AGAIN, in the book Air support is never mentioned. The MASSIVE GROUND MILITARY NUMBERs are never organized, never used. As said, it's like it was a blitz/rush attack the UNSC never saw coming, not a "Covenant entered system just now. We've got several hours to get ground forces ready for fighting, and if needed, evac. Let's get to it!" [quote]3. It's kind of hard to set up a command structure when thousands of 8 foot tall aliens are literally IN your command structure. Its like trying to set up a fire brigade to put out a fire across the state when a volcano has suddenly appeared in the firestation.[/quote] Your example makes no sense. Because, if things were done right and not derptastically, there would be no thousands of Elites on the ground. Those dropships (which got taken from thousands to hundreds), would be reduced even further, if not entirely destroyed by UNSC aircraft. Still, I ask this, with a massive number of their invasion force destroyed, how the hell did they field enough vehicles and heavy gear to overrun several locations on the ground without much of a fight? Did every dropship with a wraith magically get missed? Your example, it's more like not mobilizing the fire brigade to deal with a fire that can be easily controlled now, but could quickly turn into a firestorm. Only, you start mobilizing the fire brigade AS the small fire turned firestorm burns down the firestation. [quote]4. Yeah, thats how it is in the US Military too dude. there aren't exactly M1 ABRAMS parked in front of the Pentagon. The UNSC shares US military docterine of off shore bases to protect the mainland with Reach being the mainland. Its just like why the US Navy didn't happen to have all it's fighters scrambled on Dec 7th 1941.[/quote] No idea what that day is (Pearl Harbor?) But again, if it's Pearl Harbor, guess what? SURPRISE ATTACK/BLITZ THAT WAS NOT SEEN COMING. Not a freaking "Oh, Japan is going to launch an air-raid against Pearl Harbor in 7 hours, let's do nothing." I bet there is a military base near the Pentagon, and if a massive invasion was heard of, they'd have tanks infront of the building. Likewise, if an invasion was known about, I'm sure that nearly the entire US military could mobilize and be combat ready very quickly. Moreso, I remember stories of US bases in the middle east. An attack arrives, everybody is on their feet with combat gear and ready to fight VERY damn quick. Seriously, by comparing Pearl Harbor to the Reach ground battle, you imply that the UNSC Navy never informed ground command that the Covenant were approaching. Which is false. [quote]Reach was pooop. FoR was gooood. [/quote] Both are good for certain areas. FoR was not good for the ground battle. Edit: That's my new comparison. Battle of Reach ground(as for Fall of Reach only)played out exactly like Pearl Harbor. Only thing is, Reach ground forces HAD WARNING. [Edited on 06.24.2012 11:04 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] THOMSY99 Remember REACH is following the story of Noble Team and the events they paticipated in "The Fall of REACH". The book "Fall Of REACH" is following the story of Master Chief. Master Chief been one of the best Saprtans, was on the front line and saw much of the bulk of the invasion before having to retweet, once his comrades lost control of the MAC Guns Battery located on the ground if I recall. Noble Team, had their own little side mission, which was to collect Cortana and take her to the Pillar of the Autumn, and they stoped the first carrier (where George Sacrifieced himself). The book and the game are both taken place on REACH at the same time. Remeber REACH is a whole world, and the Invasion is happening all over it.[/quote] John never fought on Reach, he was on Gamma station...destroying a chip that was supposedly crucial since the Covenant would discover Earth...only to have them discover Earth a month later.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NEO131X This is the "problem" when there are multiple endings to something that has a sequel.* EDIT: How the hell am I an "Honorable member", I only have, like, two posts.[/quote] Went a certain amount of time with warnings or bans.