[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MA5C 7RUTH Personally, I think you should be doing something better with your time and "knowledge" than arguing about the wording of rules for a website.[/quote]Where does arguing about arguing about rules fall on this scale of things to do with your time?[/quote]This could go on for a while.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MA5C 7RUTH Personally, I think you should be doing something better with your time and "knowledge" than arguing about the wording of rules for a website.[/quote]Where does arguing about arguing about rules fall on this scale of things to do with your time?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coolmike699 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zzthejimzz Wow, you guys are passionate. Why is it that everything is analyzed and picked to death? Just curious.[/quote] It's not "everything", it's just this one rule. I could complain a lot about the rules, but this one is the only one I think should be changed. [/quote] Personally, I think you should be doing something better with your time and "knowledge" than arguing about the wording of rules for a website.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain You use it out of context as in personal gain or friend gain thats where it gets confusing. Your right again they don't control every cd that pops out or every DLC that is downloaded, but if you abuse what they have provided be prepared to be punished.[/quote]Punished? They can't "punish" you for it. The best they can do is refuse to repair a console, honour a warranty or refuse service on Xbox Live. Unless someone knows that it is illegal, they can also mod as many consoles as they like and sell them on without doing anything illegally under the DMCA. It's incredibly difficult for the manufacturer to do much of anything about, well, anything. We are, in fact, allowed to modify and redistribute (well, depending on your definition of 'redistribute', I suppose) for both profit and non-profit purposes. See, this is why the whole assumption is a bit daft - consumer rights almost always trump manufacturer rights. There are only a few cases in which that's not the case, though none seem to spring to mind so long as you bought the games and console legally.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] pistolsnipe16 Hmm, I do appreciate elmicker's argument about console manufacturers having no grounds to authorize what you personally do with a product that you purchased but I also see why the word can help for to clarify what can be talked about (Kinect hacks, etc). Perhaps is should state that there is not to be discussion of hardware or software modifications except those that are both legal and meet the wishes of manufacturers, etc. That way it would clarify that it isn't against the rules to talk about modding things per se but rather against the rules to discuss those modifications that aren't met with developer/manufacturer approval. This would allow discussions on Kinect hacks, etc while disallowing talks on modding your console to cheat in Black Ops or something. Perhaps I'm confused though. [/quote] In my opinion, if you're going to ban the discussion of one topic (modding your console to cheat) you should ban all the topics relating to that (modding your console for any purpose). While Elm has a great point regarding you're well within your legal rights to take these actions it's clear that Bungie doesn't want them discussed. In my opinion it's not right to pick and choose (within a certain topic) what you want discussed and not discussed. Then again it's not my website to decide such things.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn Bungie.net Forum Rules (translated for the casually inclined) [quote]Yo dawgs, wassup?! Nice to see y'all here at the Bnet forums! I'd really like it if you could read the followin' house-rules before you hit "Submit" on anything on the site. Got a question about them? Just hollah at a [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Ninja[/url]! The Septagon Forum is for anything to do with Bungie community, the Bnet community, and Bnet itself. If you wanna talk and joke around about our "plan" for World-Domination, feel free, we won't press charges. You can also talk about Bungie lore (like soffish and ling-ling and stuff like that ) as well as Bungie as a company. RULES OF THE BNET FORUMS, YA DIG? Check out the [url=http://www.bungie.net/help/terms_of_use.aspx]Terms of Use[/url] and [url=http://www.bungie.net/help/code_of_conduct.aspx]Code of Conduct[/url] pages; and be sure to read them!. tl;dr: 1. We are in charge of everything here. - Don't pretend to be someone else (either through your posts or your profile) - Cheating or messing up someone's game isn't fun, don't tell people otherwise. - Leaked content (which also includes scans from your favourite gaming magazine), whether they're legit or shooped, aren't allowed. - Don't talk about any changes you've made to your Xbox. We don't care. No seriously. Shut the hell up about it. No I don't care you aren't cheating and that your little brother covered your Xbox with a permanent marker; we honestly don't care. - Politics or religion ain't allowed. We make games. Talk about games. - If you want to make a new thread, make sure you're [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=561974]posting in the right forum[/url]. If we catch you posting in the wrong forum, you'll soon know about it. And how! - Don't use the Bnet forums to run contests (including gaming-meet-ups), ask for donations for anything, trade or sell stuff, or tell anyone about anything at all EVER (unless you post it in the Classifieds forum; where nobody will read it anyway). 2. This isn't America. This is the Internet. You ain't got no rights. - We can do whatever the heck we want; even if that means we delete your account and stop you from posting, which would be hilarious, especially if you deserved it. You said it would be okay to do when you created your profile. So HAH! - How long you're banned for isn't always going to be the same as someone else who was banned for that same reason. Nobody cares about your forum title. Seriously. Even you shouldn't. - If a [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Ninja[/url] got you good and you wanna tell them what-for, send the guy responsible a message ([url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=541597]check dis article out for tips on how to slam 'em good[/url]). 3. Play niec, don't be a jerkfaec. - Use that brain of yours. This site belongs to a company that makes games. So stay true to that and don't post anything rude or sexy. If not, then we'll likely have to end up giving you a ban for your stupidity. And yes that is a reasonable excuse for us. - Respect, yo. The other members deserve it. I mean, at least act civilly on the website; -blam!- and moan about them on MSN and Skype all you want. Calling anyone a bad name like "dolt" isn't allowed, even if they deserve it, like the majority of people in life will. - "Spam" isn't allowed. ([url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/FAQ.aspx?cid=523074]What counts as spam? *shrug*[/url]) - Don't post about anything illegal. - Don't post lies. Yeah, even if it is funny. I'M THE FUNNY GUY AROUND HERE! - Don't spoil things for other people, even if Snape did, in fact, kill Dumbledore. - Don't use those annoying tricks to show everyone how angry you are by swearing and making it so it doesn't say "-blam!-" ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law]Herego[/url]) - If you're going to make a new thread, try and make it at least interesting enough to spark new discussion out of other people. Please. We need more of that. Other Things Wut WIll Help You - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=561974]Okay, got all of that, but where should my post go?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=217783]So wait, what's this "Ninja" thing you've been talking about?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Who's the Bnet Web Team and Ninjas?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=541597]You want to appeal your ban? K. Read this.[/url] We Finding Ling-Ling's head.[/quote][/quote] Perhaps a posh version as well: Gentlemen, i welcome you to our establisment...

Hmm, I do appreciate elmicker's argument about console manufacturers having no grounds to authorize what you personally do with a product that you purchased but I also see why the word can help for to clarify what can be talked about (Kinect hacks, etc). Perhaps is should state that there is not to be discussion of hardware or software modifications except those that are both legal and meet the wishes of manufacturers, etc. That way it would clarify that it isn't against the rules to talk about modding things per se but rather against the rules to discuss those modifications that aren't met with developer/manufacturer approval. This would allow discussions on Kinect hacks, etc while disallowing talks on modding your console to cheat in Black Ops or something. Perhaps I'm confused though.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SonicJohn Bungie.net Forum Rules (translated for the casually inclined) [quote]Yo dawgs, wassup?! Nice to see y'all here at the Bnet forums! I'd really like it if you could read the followin' house-rules before you hit "Submit" on anything on the site. Got a question about them? Just hollah at a [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Ninja[/url]! The Septagon Forum is for anything to do with Bungie community, the Bnet community, and Bnet itself. If you wanna talk and joke around about our "plan" for World-Domination, feel free, we won't press charges. You can also talk about Bungie lore (like soffish and ling-ling and stuff like that ) as well as Bungie as a company. RULES OF THE BNET FORUMS, YA DIG? Check out the [url=http://www.bungie.net/help/terms_of_use.aspx]Terms of Use[/url] and [url=http://www.bungie.net/help/code_of_conduct.aspx]Code of Conduct[/url] pages; and be sure to read them!. tl;dr: 1. We are in charge of everything here. - Don't pretend to be someone else (either through your posts or your profile) - Cheating or messing up someone's game isn't fun, don't tell people otherwise. - Leaked content (which also includes scans from your favourite gaming magazine), whether they're legit or shooped, aren't allowed. - Don't talk about any changes you've made to your Xbox. We don't care. No seriously. Shut the hell up about it. No I don't care you aren't cheating and that your little brother covered your Xbox with a permanent marker; we honestly don't care. - Politics or religion ain't allowed. We make games. Talk about games. - If you want to make a new thread, make sure you're [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=561974]posting in the right forum[/url]. If we catch you posting in the wrong forum, you'll soon know about it. And how! - Don't use the Bnet forums to run contests (including gaming-meet-ups), ask for donations for anything, trade or sell stuff, or tell anyone about anything at all EVER (unless you post it in the Classifieds forum; where nobody will read it anyway). 2. This isn't America. This is the Internet. You ain't got no rights. - We can do whatever the heck we want; even if that means we delete your account and stop you from posting, which would be hilarious, especially if you deserved it. You said it would be okay to do when you created your profile. So HAH! - How long you're banned for isn't always going to be the same as someone else who was banned for that same reason. Nobody cares about your forum title. Seriously. Even you shouldn't. - If a [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Ninja[/url] got you good and you wanna tell them what-for, send the guy responsible a message ([url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=541597]check dis article out for tips on how to slam 'em good[/url]). 3. Play niec, don't be a jerkfaec. - Use that brain of yours. This site belongs to a company that makes games. So stay true to that and don't post anything rude or sexy. If not, then we'll likely have to end up giving you a ban for your stupidity. And yes that is a reasonable excuse for us. - Respect, yo. The other members deserve it. I mean, at least act civilly on the website; -blam!- and moan about them on MSN and Skype all you want. Calling anyone a bad name like "dolt" isn't allowed, even if they deserve it, like the majority of people in life will. - "Spam" isn't allowed. ([url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/FAQ.aspx?cid=523074]What counts as spam? *shrug*[/url]) - Don't post about anything illegal. - Don't post lies. Yeah, even if it is funny. I'M THE FUNNY GUY AROUND HERE! - Don't spoil things for other people, even if Snape did, in fact, kill Dumbledore. - Don't use those annoying tricks to show everyone how angry you are by swearing and making it so it doesn't say "-blam!-" ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law]Herego[/url]) - If you're going to make a new thread, try and make it at least interesting enough to spark new discussion out of other people. Please. We need more of that. Other Things Wut WIll Help You - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=561974]Okay, got all of that, but where should my post go?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=217783]So wait, what's this "Ninja" thing you've been talking about?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Who's the Bnet Web Team and Ninjas?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=541597]You want to appeal your ban? K. Read this.[/url] We Finding Ling-Ling's head.[/quote][/quote] I had to stop after the first line... How could you even tolerate writing that up?

Your right you own it. You use it out of context as in personal gain or friend gain thats where it gets confusing. Do it on your own time, don't brag don't share and keep it off the forums that's all he is asking within regards to that rule. There are many other places you can share this type of content, just not here. Your right again they don't control every cd that pops out or every DLC that is downloaded, but if you abuse what they have provided be prepared to be punished. We do not own any part of Bungie or Microsoft (unless your a share holder) we own their products which dose not entitle us to the right to modify or redistribute without proper authorization for profit or non profit purposes. [Edited on 01.25.2011 1:36 PM PST]

Bungie.net Forum Rules (translated for the casually inclined) [quote]Yo dawgs, wassup?! Nice to see y'all here at the Bnet forums! I'd really like it if you could read the followin' house-rules before you hit "Submit" on anything on the site. Got a question about them? Just hollah at a [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Ninja[/url]! The Septagon Forum is for anything to do with Bungie community, the Bnet community, and Bnet itself. If you wanna talk and joke around about our "plan" for World-Domination, feel free, we won't press charges. You can also talk about Bungie lore (like soffish and ling-ling and stuff like that ) as well as Bungie as a company. RULES OF THE BNET FORUMS, YA DIG? Check out the [url=http://www.bungie.net/help/terms_of_use.aspx]Terms of Use[/url] and [url=http://www.bungie.net/help/code_of_conduct.aspx]Code of Conduct[/url] pages; and be sure to read them!. tl;dr: 1. We are in charge of everything here. - Don't pretend to be someone else (either through your posts or your profile) - Cheating or messing up someone's game isn't fun, don't tell people otherwise. - Leaked content (which also includes scans from your favourite gaming magazine), whether they're legit or shooped, aren't allowed. - Don't talk about any changes you've made to your Xbox. We don't care. No seriously. Shut the hell up about it. No I don't care you aren't cheating and that your little brother covered your Xbox with a permanent marker; we honestly don't care. - Politics or religion ain't allowed. We make games. Talk about games. - If you want to make a new thread, make sure you're [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=561974]posting in the right forum[/url]. If we catch you posting in the wrong forum, you'll soon know about it. And how! - Don't use the Bnet forums to run contests (including gaming-meet-ups), ask for donations for anything, trade or sell stuff, or tell anyone about anything at all EVER (unless you post it in the Classifieds forum; where nobody will read it anyway). 2. This isn't America. This is the Internet. You ain't got no rights. - We can do whatever the heck we want; even if that means we delete your account and stop you from posting, which would be hilarious, especially if you deserved it. You said it would be okay to do when you created your profile. So HAH! - How long you're banned for isn't always going to be the same as someone else who was banned for that same reason. Nobody cares about your forum title. Seriously. Even you shouldn't. - If a [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Ninja[/url] got you good and you wanna tell them what-for, send the guy responsible a message ([url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=541597]check dis article out for tips on how to slam 'em good[/url]). 3. Play niec, don't be a jerkfaec. - Use that brain of yours. This site belongs to a company that makes games. So stay true to that and don't post anything rude or sexy. If not, then we'll likely have to end up giving you a ban for your stupidity. And yes that is a reasonable excuse for us. - Respect, yo. The other members deserve it. I mean, at least act civilly on the website; -blam!- and moan about them on MSN and Skype all you want. Calling anyone a bad name like "dolt" isn't allowed, even if they deserve it, like the majority of people in life will. - "Spam" isn't allowed. ([url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/FAQ.aspx?cid=523074]What counts as spam? *shrug*[/url]) - Don't post about anything illegal. - Don't post lies. Yeah, even if it is funny. I'M THE FUNNY GUY AROUND HERE! - Don't spoil things for other people, even if Snape did, in fact, kill Dumbledore. - Don't use those annoying tricks to show everyone how angry you are by swearing and making it so it doesn't say "-blam!-" ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law]Herego[/url]) - If you're going to make a new thread, try and make it at least interesting enough to spark new discussion out of other people. Please. We need more of that. Other Things Wut WIll Help You - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=561974]Okay, got all of that, but where should my post go?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=217783]So wait, what's this "Ninja" thing you've been talking about?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/GroupMembers.aspx]Who's the Bnet Web Team and Ninjas?[/url] - [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/hfcs/Group/Resources/Article.aspx?cid=541597]You want to appeal your ban? K. Read this.[/url] We Finding Ling-Ling's head.[/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zzthejimzz Wow, you guys are passionate. Why is it that everything is analyzed and picked to death? Just curious.[/quote] It's not "everything", it's just this one rule. I could complain a lot about the rules, but this one is the only one I think should be changed.

I don't think we should ban discussion of authorized modifications. Weather or not Microsoft likes it is irrelevant, it is about weather or not this website likes it. Personally, I think modifications should be allowed, as should the discussion, unless of course it is unauthorized (because it violates the terms of the Xbox live agreements, or is illegal).

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain If serious enough Bungie and or Microsoft do have the right to obtain your legal information and press charges if you tamper, distribute, corrupt or alter products or information, just like any company. It is there property and they have the authority over it and can allow certain parties to alter or modify in regards and allowances of Bungie or Microsoft. How is it so hard to interpret that? If you don't have permission don't bother tampering or modifying. Use common sense and logic. Paint your xbox with what ever color you want, just don't patch the software so you have an unlimited DRM automatic rocket launcher, with out Bungie or Microsoft's permission.[/quote]This is all wrong, by the by. You're perfectly allowed to alter everything you buy. Bungie's games? Absolutely. If you can bypass the DRM. Fair use (and a bit of ignorance. One of the few areas in life ignorance of the law is a legal excuse, hilariously) dictates that you may freely copy CDs, DVDs and software for personal use so long as you own a legitimate copy. Selling on or distributing those illegal copies, or retaining a copy having bought the game legally and then sold it on, is, however, illegal. Additionally, you may alter any content you have bought at a whim. You aren't, however, allowed to sell it on in its altered form (well, at least not in a mass produced fashion, as far as I'm aware). I think it may just be legal to buy a 360, modify it and then later sell it on, but that'd be a shaky legal argument based on you not having more than one 360, at best. Though, in fairness, the legality depends on the type of modification and its intent, which is also fairly shaky legal ground. Essentially, though, you may do as you damn well please with the hardware, and you are entitled to copy games for your own personal use. The industry is not required to make your life easy, but it can't actually argue against console modification legally without violating fair use laws. Any hardware modification voids your warranty, but software modifications don't, I don't think. Basically, you have to understand that companies have very, very little control over their products once they are sold on. They have certain rights when it comes to resale, but they're not fantastic, either. I'm not sure how enforceable "not for rental, resale or public viewing" laws are, if I'm honest.

Its not for cheating its for another thing, but i cant say it

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain If serious enough Bungie and or Microsoft do have the right to obtain your legal information and press charges if you tamper, distribute, corrupt or alter products or information, just like any company. [u]It is there property and they have the authority over it[/u] and can allow certain parties to alter or modify in regards and allowances of Bungie or Microsoft. [/quote] My Xbox is my property. It is true that the software on it is the property of whoever owns it, and it is licensed to me, but the hardware is mine.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [/quote]While I do enjoy seeing others users use intellect to analyze the aspects of something, I think in this case it is a little over analyzed if you catch my drift. The rule is easily understandable to all, and even if an individual user can pick apart the rule based on a token, I don't see how it is a problem so long as they themselves still understand the basis of the rule and what it entails, which I imagine you do.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ArchAssain 90% of the users here will think that something within the boundaries of the real world laws will take effect thus pushing them away from the whole topic of discussion here. [/quote]You're somewhat missing the point. If you have an understanding of "real world laws", then you fully understand that you have every right (you are authorised) to patch the software to give yourself an unlimited DRM automatic rocket launcher, with or without permission. While it should be noted that you obviously then can't connect to XBL with such a modification in place, we're then into the minefield of allowing one service's guidelines to define what you can do to your own product. That might work for xboxes and XBL, but shortly this site will be serving multi-platform games, and we've already got a sizeable portion of the community that talks about every other topic under the sun. Sometimes it ain't that clear cut. [Edited on 01.25.2011 1:12 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] American Recoil So, "We do not want you talking about modifying or tampering with console game hardware or software. Period." is the idea and it is pretty clear.[/quote] Is it? Achronos just said that we can talk about modifications that console makers approve of.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Semantics.[/quote]Semantics are an incredibly important thing, and by simply dismissing something as semantics you do not, in fact, invalidate the fact that semantics are important. So, for instance, while Microsoft may not like you installing a larger hard drive in your Xbox, you're legally allowed to do so. You void your warranty, obviously, but that's not that big a deal anyway. As far as I'm aware, it doesn't stop you using Xbox Live, either. I mean, honestly, how hard is it to write "do not discuss modification of video game hardware or software"? It's unambiguous, it's straight forward, no worries. Sure, it bans discussion of case mods and the towel trick, but do you really mind that? Basically, you're trying to argue that you're not wrong, or that you used a word wrongly in a situation for what seem like bloody silly reasons. Man up, take any reference to "unauthorised" out (unless you say "no unauthorised threads about console hardware or modification", in which case you allow for mods to authorise threads about case mods or specific aspects of console modification if and when they arise), and worry no more. Everyone can get things wrong.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No, I'm arguing that the legal definition of authorize isn't relevant. You are the one that is attempting to confuse the issue by applying a overly simplified legal definition.[/quote]This isn't overly simplified, nor is it a "legal definition" (as if that would make it any less relevant). [quote]Authorize To authorize a thing. -To set up as authoritative; to acknowledge as possessing final decisiveness -To give legal force to; to make legally valid. -To vouch for the truth or reality of; to confirm by one's authority. [OED2][/quote] Authorise, by its very meaning, implies authority, legal or otherwise. That authority is non-existant in all cases the rule applies to. That authority lies solely with the end user. You are implementing the rule in the hope that your audience will take it to mean something it actually doesn't, knowing full well this is the case. What's the point of rewriting the rules for clarity when you're leaving such nonsense as this in?[/quote] 90% of the users here will think that something within the boundaries of the real world laws will take effect thus pushing them away from the whole topic of discussion here. If serious enough Bungie and or Microsoft do have the right to obtain your legal information and press charges if you tamper, distribute, corrupt or alter products or information, just like any company. It is there property and they have the authority over it and can allow certain parties to alter or modify in regards and allowances of Bungie or Microsoft. How is it so hard to interpret that? If you don't have permission don't bother tampering or modifying. Use common sense and logic. Paint your xbox with what ever color you want, just don't patch the software so you have an unlimited DRM automatic rocket launcher, with out Bungie or Microsoft's permission.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RighteousTyrant [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zzthejimzz Wow, you guys are passionate. Why is it that everything is analyzed and picked to death? Just curious.[/quote]Why not? If an individual thinks something is wrong, or could be improved, there's nothing worse than taking no action towards that end.[/quote]Indeed. All that is necessary for evil to take root is for good people to do nothing. [/quote] At least you two do make sense.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zzthejimzz Wow, you guys are passionate. Why is it that everything is analyzed and picked to death? Just curious.[/quote]Why not? If an individual thinks something is wrong, or could be improved, there's nothing worse than taking no action towards that end.[/quote]Indeed. All that is necessary for evil to take root is for good people to do nothing.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zzthejimzz Wow, you guys are passionate. Why is it that everything is analyzed and picked to death? Just curious.[/quote]Why not? If an individual thinks something is wrong, or could be improved, there's nothing worse than taking no action towards that end. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] American Recoil So, "We do not want you talking about modifying or tampering with console game hardware or software. Period." is the idea and it is pretty clear.[/quote]If you'd bothered to read the thread, you'd see this is actually what we're arguing to have put in place. You'd have seen that, in actual fact, someone who assumes this is what the rule means is in error. They've applied a common misconception and as a result, come up with a misconceived conclusion. This rule is somewhat ironic in that having a greater understanding of it than the average person will leave you more likely to breach it. As much as I want the rules to be clear, and as much as I've argued for them to be so, they shouldn't rely on such ambiguity (especially when it's erroneous) to attain that clarity. If you've just read a rule and thought to yourself "Oh, so it said x and i think that it must mean y," as you have just done then chances are the rule should've read 'y' in the first place. [Edited on 01.25.2011 1:08 PM PST]

I can't seem to understand why you can't read a rule, such as the one stated in the OP, and accept it for what it is. It is not vague, it is very simple and to the point. [quote]Do not discuss unauthorized modification of console game hardware or software, even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate.[/quote] I could let my 10 year old brother read this and he would understand it. Shall we break it down? "Do not discuss..." obviously states something that should be avoided in discussions on B.net. "...unauthorized modification of console game hardware or software..." means what is says. Microsoft doesn't want their materials tampered or modified, nor Bungie including the discussions based on the topic. And finally, "...even if you're not trying to cheat or pirate." simply means "No ifs, ands, or buts." So, "We do not want you talking about modifying or tampering with console game hardware or software. Period." is the idea and it is pretty clear.

Wow, you guys are passionate. Why is it that everything is analyzed and picked to death? Just curious.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No, I'm arguing that the legal definition of authorize isn't relevant. You are the one that is attempting to confuse the issue by applying a overly simplified legal definition. [/quote] I think you're just using the wrong word. Why not use "unapproved"?