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11/15/2010 3:14:30 PM
1219
The Halo community doesn't even know what Bungie can make as DLC?
Please make sure you read the links, as they contain greater detail than my post.
[quote]DLC = [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content]Downloadable Content[/url]
The phrase is used to refer specifically to content created for video games that is released separately from the main video game release.[/quote][quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content#Criticism]Disc Locked Content[/url], is a parody word based on downloadable content, when people had discovered that content that was supposedly downloadable had in fact originated on the disc, but it was locked.
Content on the disc can be unlocked by online, buying the authorization files from Live. It's up to game developers to use this conning tactic.[/quote]
[quote][u]Posts of Interest[/u]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=55696497]Evil Otto, a Bungie employee, confirms armor DLC being impossible for Halo Reach.[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=56601704&postRepeater1-p=1]Evil Otto, a Bungie employee, confirms that armors should not be shipped in DLC maps[/url].
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=42#55140912]Explanation, for no Campaign DLC from Brian Jarrard and confirmation from Evil Otto.[/url]
[url=http://boards.ign.com/xbox_360_general_board/b8266/195487206/r195507846/]Best Buy Halo: Reach Developer Chat Transcript (September)[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=12#53103659]p0lar_bear (2)[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=12#53103993]Shadowspartan (1) - Tags[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=28#53400959]Shadowspartan (2) - Includes links from Bungie[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=15#53124443]jcap (1)[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=55696497&postRepeater1-p=6#55750992]jcap (2) - Ignorant kids :P[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=54208066&postRepeater1-p=1#54208236]jcap (3) - Cube map in the Covenant Carriers[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLdd9bHPCTo#t=0m27s]Halo: Reach Gamescom Interview - Unlock, Unlock and Unlock[/url][/quote]
Here I will list what is possible and impossible for downloadable content.
[quote][u]Impossible to add as DLC[/u]
New vehicles/weapons/objects into [b]old/released[/b] maps - Pelican in Forge World anyone?
New Armors - Arbiter perm? Hyabusa?
New Armor Abilities
New Colors - [insert any color]
New Emblems - [insert obscenity emblem here]
New Nameplates - I am Bungie cool.
New Gamemodes - Something like Chess and VIP.
New Firefight voices - Red vs Blue?
New Skulls
New Killing sprees
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=42#55140912]Campaign DLC[/url] :'([/quote][quote][u]Possible to add as DLC[/u]
Multiplayer maps.
Firefight maps.
Anything can be added to an unreleased DLC map, and any new content that comes within the DLC map, will only be exclusively for that map.
Campaign maps is a possibility, depends if developers aren't lazy or too busy.
[url=http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1GPCK_enGB404&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Halo+Reach+DLC+will+be+multiplayer+centric]Halo Reach DLC will be multiplayer centric[/url][/quote]
Q & A's
[quote]But Bungie only said that problem was with Halo 3, this is Halo Reach, they've should have sorted it out.[/quote]When Bungie made Halo Reach, it was easier to code over Halo 3. ODST is a result of Bungie's work over Halo 3's engine, and now Halo Reach is the final result of the rework on Halo 3's engine.
Bungie did not change the map format/resource storage.
[quote]Bungie added snow camo vehicles to Avalanche, and a Golf Club permutation of the Gravity Hammer.[/quote]These were just permutations exclusive to the DLC map itself, it does not go in any other map.
[quote][insert game here] can do it, so Bungie can do the same[/quote]Please note this, the development team, game engine and programming is always different, there are always pros and cons to certain game engines, we cannot compare any Halo games to a game that doesn't use the Halo engine, or it's file formats.
[quote]But I downloaded Johnson for ODST[/quote]What you really downloaded was an authorization file which unlocks the content for your console, this is how you and others are able to see, or use, it's because the content originates on the disc.
[quote]Bungie took away the shield doors from Snowbound and Epitaph, also they removed the Elephant from Sandtrap[/quote]Bungie created a set of reserved spawns in forge maps, that only "they" and modders can change.
These reserved spawns cannot be changed by us in the game.
[quote]Bungie added Recon to Halo 3 :o[/quote]The Recon armor already shipped in the game, it was "locked", and your gamertag must be flagged by Bungie on Bungie.net to be unlocked.
[quote]Why can't Bungie add campaign maps?[/quote]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=42#55140912]Read this[/url].
[quote]Can you provide proof for all of this?[/quote]No, but that doesn't mean we're telling lies, we are actually explaining to you why they can't do it, none of this can just come in a one sentence proof, so I hope you understand and read. :D
Evil Otto, later confirmed it would require a new game for new armors.
[quote][url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=27308839]* Do not post false information or mislead other forumgoers.
This includes false information about Bungie games, Bungie.net, the public forum rules, or other information that may mislead other users.[/url][/quote]It must be amazing how I haven't broken this rule. :D
not.
[quote]Interesting Quotes:[/quote][quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lucifer90210
Knew all this already
but you all know the disk lock comes from microsoft.
and the developers cant take off these locks(unless they want to be sued) this lock is in MOST FPS thats why u never see anythng but maps as DLC for most popular titles such as
Halo
G.R.A.W
COD
GEARS.
Rainbow six[/quote][quote][url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=53016202&postRepeater1-p=42#55397494][b]Posted by:[/b] Chaosenemy
Just discovered this thread... Damn Shock, you've had your hands full in here. 42 pages of some of the most misinformed, illogical posts I have ever seen, the ignorance of which, upon reading, have caused me to spew blood violently from every orifice. Some people just don't want to accept simple logic I guess. Willful ignorance. Annoying but common unfortunately.[/url][/quote]
[quote][url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=55696497]Posted by Evil Otto
Not in a simple patch or update. Each map file in the game has all the content embedded in it. If we were to create new armor, it would either only be available in any new maps that get made after that point, or we would have to send out new map files of all the multiplayer and singleplayer maps and require about 9 GB of HD storage. This is economically not feasible.[/url][/quote]Patches and updates do not work.
Replacement of all maps required = New game.
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JonnyOThan
I think the labels will be the same as for invasion slayer. This way you don't have to update any maps you've already made for invasion slayer, and the on-disc maps will still work too. If we added new labels, the maps on-disc wouldn't work unless you went into forge and added the new objects yourself.[/quote]Not really sure what this means...
[quote][url=http://boards.ign.com/xbox_360_general_board/b8266/195487206/r195507846/]Guest-358: Are there any plans to add more armor abilities down the road?
BrianJd: No plans, it's not really something the game could support post-launch.[/url][/quote]I can understand, why they couldn't add more, since AAs are stored as shared resources on the disc.
[Edited on 03.29.2011 6:42 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Super tacoman i still say we need to just rip out the current UI and replace it with yoyo's UI because let's be honest i'd rather have a fly through of yoyorast island than reach's current bland UI.map file and yes im back, there was an incident involving Star Craft II, my laptop monitor, and a fist[/quote]Ah, yes, Yoyorast UI would be fun to stare at. :D
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i still say we need to just rip out the current UI and replace it with yoyo's UI because let's be honest i'd rather have a fly through of yoyorast island than reach's current bland UI.map file and yes im back, there was an incident involving Star Craft II, my laptop monitor, and a fist
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WyvernRider I agreed with you that armor cant be added to DLC but potentially from my understanding can be added via title updates. This would cost money and a lot of effort to make codes to alter the map files and add new tags to each and everyone. Would require multiple updates which is costly and overall not worth the resources imo.[/quote]>.< I misread, nevermind. [Edited on 01.19.2011 8:11 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Shock120 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WyvernRider In order for updates doesn't there have to be some command that checks the cache on xbox or something built into coding in order for updates to take effect? Essientially using updates new armor tags should be able to be added to old maps. The problem is both the size of these updates and the cost and time to make them. I am also pretty sure that to reform the files for new armor and vehicles would also require multiple updates as well since the size would be too large. So it is highly unlikely that such a thing would happen. Armor for DLC would only work on DLC maps and so would be buggy on old maps with people who dont have the DLC and as such armor probably cant be implemented as DLC successfully. [/quote]Here's some things you never took into consideration. The User Interface is also a map file, you wouldn't be able to select new armors. Shared cache files are >400MB, Xbox 360's memory is 512MB shared. With the problem being the map format, there's just no such thing as DLC armors.[/quote] I agreed with you that armor cant be added to DLC but potentially from my understanding can be added via title updates. This would cost money and a lot of effort to make codes to alter the map files and add new tags to each and everyone. Would require multiple updates which is costly and overall not worth the resources imo.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WyvernRider In order for updates doesn't there have to be some command that checks the cache on xbox or something built into coding in order for updates to take effect? Essientially using updates new armor tags should be able to be added to old maps. The problem is both the size of these updates and the cost and time to make them. I am also pretty sure that to reform the files for new armor and vehicles would also require multiple updates as well since the size would be too large. So it is highly unlikely that such a thing would happen. Armor for DLC would only work on DLC maps and so would be buggy on old maps with people who dont have the DLC and as such armor probably cant be implemented as DLC successfully. [/quote]Here's some things you never took into consideration. The User Interface is also a map file, you wouldn't be able to select new armors. Shared cache files are >400MB, Xbox 360's memory is 512MB shared. With the problem being the map format, there's just no such thing as DLC armors. [Edited on 01.19.2011 7:44 AM PST]
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This thread is made of win. Too bad it crushes the hopes and dreams of many... But at least in an informative and good way. The only annoyance I've experienced viewing this thread is the armour stuff. From what has been put and how I interpreted it, it does seem possible but far too much effort just to have a shiny new wristwatch. Am I right there or did I get something wrong? It just seems like Bungie missed out on setting up the system to allow armour to be easily added, especially when they put a load of effort into the armoury stuff.
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In order for updates doesn't there have to be some command that checks the cache on xbox or something built into coding in order for updates to take effect? Essientially using updates new armor tags should be able to be added to old maps. The problem is both the size of these updates and the cost and time to make them. I am also pretty sure that to reform the files for new armor and vehicles would also require multiple updates as well since the size would be too large. So it is highly unlikely that such a thing would happen. Armor for DLC would only work on DLC maps and so would be buggy on old maps with people who dont have the DLC and as such armor probably cant be implemented as DLC successfully.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] adzy101 Explain to me how did they make the "grifball" commentary at the start when match begins because this wasnt and is not on the disc. How did they add it.... simple or ?[/quote]It was a reserved gametype. They have several reserved, it's pretty neat really, they take it out and then bring in a gametype file for you to save. Data is all stored on the disc, the gametype file wasn't. The commentary/gametype coding was in the game all along. [Edited on 01.19.2011 7:44 AM PST]
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Explain to me how did they make the "grifball" commentary at the start when match begins because this wasnt and is not on the disc. How did they add it.... simple or ?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xSupernautx Actually Forge World was once several seperate maps and then bungie kinda thru them together so technically they ARE seperate AND a single map, all in one. And Im no hacker but I beleive they have seperate files within the forgeworld.map file itself, for the different maps, and each forge world map is a built in mao to the disc. Just an opinionated guess, nothing more.[/quote]Only Campaign maps do that, Campaign maps have several BSPs which are loaded as you pass a section of the map, and the previous one is unloaded. The moment Bungie threw all geometry together, it became one BSP within one map. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BalistaGaming But you can however download user-made maps, screenshots, videos, and even game types. So not only can we get DLC, we can get [i]user-made[/i] DLC.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content]Downloadable Content[/url] [Edited on 01.19.2011 7:06 AM PST]
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But you can however download user-made maps, screenshots, videos, and even game types. So not only can we get DLC, we can get [i]user-made[/i] DLC.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] vip3rman360 well, only a few people realize that only a full game patch can add armor and weapons for ALL maps. If it was dlc only some people would have the armor and the map that is able to render it, as with the people that don't get it, they cant use the map or helmet. Unless, you had a lobby that has everyone with the dlc. And, it would be hard to change the WHOLE map just for armor. Now, if bungie is patching a glitch, they might consider adding armor and weapons. But they probably won't be doing that anytime soon because that would extend the patch date so far back since it takes so much time to change all those codes. Think about it. Would you change the codes for ALL THE CAMPAIGN, MULTIPLAYER, and FIREFIGHT? So many maps to make it compatible with the new dlc armor/weapons. They are able to add dlc weapons in the same package as the dlc maps and it'll work cause they progamed it but only that/those map(s).[/quote] Yes but you also have to think it would take a massive TU, Update, or DLC ro build new stuff into many maps, like 12 Gigs...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Shock120 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bladelord Sure disc space is saved, but the amount of work put into it is effectively the same. And Forge World. Well, it is one map, yes. Anyone with a brain can see that. But the fact that it is so large and encompasses several different and separate spaces allows me to [b]look at it as[/b] a collection of maps.[/quote]Well, Bungie's geometry sure gives a nice impression. :D I don't even know where this is going. All I'm saying is everything I mentioned as impossible, will stay impossible to add as DLC, because of the way Bungie has packaged their maps, and how they are all index-locked to retrieve from shared resources map. And the DLC maps you will buy, will also be index locked, and retrieve mandatory content from shared resources map, the map itself will be geometry, and will have exclusive objects in the map.[/quote] Actually Forge World was once several seperate maps and then bungie kinda thru them together so technically they ARE seperate AND a single map, all in one. And Im no hacker but I beleive they have seperate files within the forgeworld.map file itself, for the different maps, and each forge world map is a built in mao to the disc. Just an opinionated guess, nothing more.
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well, only a few people realize that only a full game patch can add armor and weapons for ALL maps. If it was dlc only some people would have the armor and the map that is able to render it, as with the people that don't get it, they cant use the map or helmet. Unless, you had a lobby that has everyone with the dlc. And, it would be hard to change the WHOLE map just for armor. Now, if bungie is patching a glitch, they might consider adding armor and weapons. But they probably won't be doing that anytime soon because that would extend the patch date so far back since it takes so much time to change all those codes. Think about it. Would you change the codes for ALL THE CAMPAIGN, MULTIPLAYER, and FIREFIGHT? So many maps to make it compatible with the new dlc armor/weapons. They are able to add dlc weapons in the same package as the dlc maps and it'll work cause they progamed it but only that/those map(s).
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FourKILLMASTER Could Bungie implement helmets with new attachment combinations. Such as Mk V with UA-Hul and the blue-tooth attachment Carter has. [/quote]If you're talking about them adding new options to existing/inaccessible permutations, then that is impossible too. Bungie would have to re-write the game engine and the User Interface map.
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Now here is something I have been wondering. While I am aware that armor DLC is impossible. Could Bungie implement helmets with new attachment combinations. Such as Mk V with UA-Hul and the blue-tooth attachment Carter has.
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I can assure you that Halo has always run on the Blam Engine, yes the Blam Engine, and all the armors are Built in to each map, so are the Vehicles, Weapons, and Forgeable items. The only way to add weapons, vehicles, or armor is to release DLC with these built in, and they would be exclusive to the new maps. And the reskinned Vehicles on Avalanch were only for that map, so only MP maps can be added. I know the engine bc I used to do Hardcore Halo Custom Edition Modding and while the engine is updated it still runs the same basic setup. End of story... Edit: Also the UI (User Interface or Main Menu and all submenues)is, and always has been, programmed as a map or a .map file, so that counts too ;) [Edited on 01.16.2011 9:00 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] halomcee This thread should be on Top Forum topics, keep saving it so it can get there.[/quote]That would be impossible, as it breaks too many of people's dreams, and they would rather avoid posting here. xD [Edited on 01.16.2011 7:53 PM PST]
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This thread should be on Top Forum topics, keep saving it so it can get there.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JAKE 4 CAKE [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Shock120 [u]Impossible to add as DLC[/u] New vehicles[/quote]But in halo 3, avalanche had changed vehicles, well, I guess they were just re textured, but surely that's a big enough change to prove that new vehicles could be added. [/quote] That's because Avalanche was a new map. However, it would be impossible for you to download those snow vehicles onto Valhalla
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Chaosenemy Just discovered this thread... Damn Shock, you've had your hands full in here. 42 pages of some of the most misinformed, illogical posts I have ever seen, the ignorance of which, upon reading, have caused me to spew blood violently from every orifice. Some people just don't want to accept simple logic I guess. Willful ignorance. Annoying but common unfortunately.[/quote]Hooray, nice to see you Chaosenemy. :D There are always a few kids who miss out on this thread, so I inform them. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Blufire45 If anyone gets down this far reply to this.[/quote]Ok. [Edited on 01.16.2011 7:44 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Chaosenemy Just discovered this thread... Damn Shock, you've had your hands full in here. 42 pages of some of the most misinformed, illogical posts I have ever seen, the ignorance of which, upon reading, have caused me to spew blood violently from every orifice. Some people just don't want to accept simple logic I guess. Willful ignorance. Annoying but common unfortunately.[/quote] Ignorance is bliss.
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You dumb no life bigger. Everyone knows that bungie is real -blam!- and sucks the arbitors dick real hard. Nut sucking -blam!-ez
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If anyone gets down this far reply to this.
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Just discovered this thread... Damn Shock, you've had your hands full in here. 42 pages of some of the most misinformed, illogical posts I have ever seen, the ignorance of which, upon reading, have caused me to spew blood violently from every orifice. Some people just don't want to accept simple logic I guess. Willful ignorance. Annoying but common unfortunately.
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Its totaly possible, but very unlikley becouse its frownd apon in the marketing of the product to not recived serten features to a game after its released, save "Expanistion packs" which might be added containing new armors and vehicles. Why? u might ask, well think of it this way Halo reach is realesed without forge world or forge, a few months later later they release both (hudge part to the game btw) people without online connections or people who original sold there copy cause it didnt have a major part of the game that was orignale planed are really mad. The one thing you dont want when your planning on making futher products that are going to be sold. Map packs on the other hand can release very small portions of very little new content, as to not piss off people, by relseing major part of the game,which is where Expanstion packs come in, diffrenct concept, but it has to act really diffrent from the original game. Such as... Bad comapny 2 -- vietnam Halo 3 --- Odst diffrent from the orignial product. So bungie probally wont but YES it is physically possible [Edited on 01.15.2011 8:03 AM PST]
