Bunige never said that Reach was TFOR:The Game did they you simply "assumed" it would be.

What i found worse was that they marketed Reach like it was a direct homage to the novel. The whole glassing,dark, and helpless serious tone and even a possible Jame's reference was seen in that trailer. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxcuSeZsEs4]Utter Dissapointment. "Thanks Bungie". You stuck by us fans....not[/url] It didn't turn out that way at all. the closest thing i can think of that had any similarity was..... The WORD Reach not even the planet. Just the WORD. Can't believe i stuck by these people in terms of campaign experience.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kit_103 True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.[/quote]The actual invasion started in Mid-August. The Covenant encountered before the ending cutscene of the level [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] were more or less an expeditionary force.

[quote][b]Posted By:[/b] hotshot revan II -There are two scenerios with this: 1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense 2)Most likely what happened in the game:The autumn never fought in space combat it was all the time on ground(Halsey said on the 29th that autumn was already waiting) .This ruins canon as well because who did dropped blue team at the spacestation?What happened with Red Team?.... Linda doesn't dies,James neither,no Red team jump,.... Canon=destroyed[/quote] 1. I believe that Kit probably wasn't talking Ship of the Line combat sort of ships, probably something small and like those rocket tugships we saw getting the Autumn off the ground. 2. Halsey did not say it was already waiting for them, she it [i]will[/i] be awaiting their arrival. If it was on the ground all along then (which I highly doubt) then Red Team simply got to the generators a different way, and all those except the survivors in FS died/went MIA defending them, nothing ruined there. If the Circumference Op never happened, then Linda either dies a different way, or just doesn't die at all and is put with Red Team along with James. [quote] -No just no. It hasn't anything to do with just dates. Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august. And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well. So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August??? [/quote] Video Conference? :P But seriously, either Red Flag briefing didn't happen, or it was [i]earlier[/i] than the book said. Jun never mentions anything about SWORD Base except his exclamation about "The Covenant own it now!" when they're told about the Torch and Burn Op. [quote]The month long battle is BS.How could +150 ships survive a covie fleet(314-750 ships) for a month and ONI couldn't have kept the invasion as secret for a month for the following reasons -The covenant glassed the citys around the circular lake during the 14th of august,this can be observed in the lnos level . -The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that? -The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well -New alexandira -..many more ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this. And what's the ponit again of red flag briefing if the godamn covies were fighting above your head. This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal. This game is a total disaster. [/quote] They do not last a month against 300-something ships, you're right about that. They last two weeks, last I checked a month was [i]four[/i] weeks. The whole 750+ ships was an error, it's still 300-something Covie ships. And as I have said quite a few times before, if it was kept secret at all, it was only until the Long Night of Solace was revealed. Why create mass-panic and hysteria if it's only a handful of ships that can easily be dispatched, by saying the Covenant are on Reach? What pray tell, does it conflict with CE about? You just pulled that statement out of your ass didn't you? And it can't contradict the Journal either, as the whole point of it was to explain questions raised by Reach, pulled that one out of your ass too didn't you? Kit is right, you are overreacting.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn It's scarier if a planet falls in a day! It shows that the Covenant are something to be feared. Not incompetent dolts.[/quote] It worked when there was no real backstory. How fearsome are the Covenant? They destroyed the planet in day. They must be mean. But this is the same Covenant that took 3 years to get from Harvest to Madrigal, and the same Covenant that, almost ridiculously, has not managed to find ONE single piece of Nav Data in all the Human colonies they've destroyed. Maintaining the Cole Protocol for 27 years was a stretch for me....it's hard to believe, but I'll go with it. They've never really gone into how long it takes the Covies to glass a planet, we've only seen glimpses and aftermaths. Jericho VII, even Reach in FOR, the actual Fall isn't very detailed, just the Spartan II's actions....there's plenty of room for embellishment.[/quote] Exactly, you've got a good head up there, man, or woman, whichever you may be, there was very little detail about the Battle of Reach in TFoR, and there is plenty room for more additions, especially now that the whole affair is close to a month in length, rather than a day, which doesn't make sense anyway. Two weeks against the full Covenant might on Humanities second "homeworld" makes ever so much more sense than a couple hours, this is Reach we're talking about, just as valuable as Earth. And I don't think Reach was fully glassed anyway, I doubt any whole planet was, only the areas with the largest concentration of humans and where the biggest battles were fought.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn It's scarier if a planet falls in a day! It shows that the Covenant are something to be feared. Not incompetent dolts.[/quote] It worked when there was no real backstory. How fearsome are the Covenant? They destroyed the planet in day. They must be mean. But this is the same Covenant that took 3 years to get from Harvest to Madrigal, and the same Covenant that, almost ridiculously, has not managed to find ONE single piece of Nav Data in all the Human colonies they've destroyed. Maintaining the Cole Protocol for 27 years was a stretch for me....it's hard to believe, but I'll go with it. They've never really gone into how long it takes the Covies to glass a planet, we've only seen glimpses and aftermaths. Jericho VII, even Reach in FOR, the actual Fall isn't very detailed, just the Spartan II's actions....there's plenty of room for embellishment.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert exacly rech falling in a month is scary in a way imagine this your on the other side of reach the navy you all fine but you see the army moving arou alot you leave it untill August 30th when 700 ships attack you think wow the army ONI didnt even tell the whole of reach covenant was attacking the viery terrtory, or take into the marines account they wipe out the last of the advance party they cheer untill they get word of the 700 covenant ships swarming in. Your heart would sink to the depths of hell,[/quote] Reach falling in a month is bollocks, plain and simple. [i]Every[/i] other source of canon over the past 9 years has said it fell in a day, that's much more fearful than a month. In Halo Evolutions: Dirt, everyone is surprised to hear that Reach has just fallen, but in the game ONI cover up the invasion for a month and don't even enact the Cole Protocol. It takes them a good week to actually formulate a defence force. And hell, there wasn't anywhere near 750 Covenant ships seen in the game, the most you see is about 7 exit slipspace in LNoS. And even then [i]where are the Orbital MACs?[/i] Making the battle a month long has done nothing but bring up negative repercussions on the rest of Halo's canon, Reach - humanity's military centre and the second-last bastion - falling in a day was much more of a terrifying affair because it all happened so quick.[/quote] No, falling in a couple hours is bullocks, especially when all other planets lasted [i][b]FAR[/b][/i] longer. Does Dirt just say mention Reach falling in passing without any real details? Or does talk about it for a bit? I haven't read it yet. Hardly, if there's any covering up at all, it would [i]only[/i] be [i]before[/i] the Long Night of Solace decloaks and starts raining down fiery death everywhere. [i]After[/i] we find out about it is when the evactuations and such would start happening. As for the Cole Protocol, as I've always understood it is that it wasn't enacted unless the Covies were right on the doorstep. Like for instance in First Strike the Cole Protocol is not enacted on CASTLE Base until the Covenant are banging on the door and digging their way in. You obviously have no conception of how long it takes to mobilize sufficient forces for a large military op. And it didn't take a week to gather forces, I assume you are referring to Tip of the Spear, and that level happens [i]right[/i] after the Nightfall mission. And as for the ships, we only get to see a couple before the satellite feed cuts out, but they're still coming in, you can see more of the slipspace rupture auras right as it's cutting out.And it never was 750 Covenant ships there, it's the same as it always was 300-something ships. We don't see the Orbital SMACs because they have nothing to do with Noble Team's story, and they wouldn't spend time on something that doesn't further the story being told.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kit_103 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II And how the -blam!- did a Halycon class cruiser even landed on Reach??That ship can't fly in the goddamn atmosphere.[/quote] More then likely brought in by a few atmosphere capable ships. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II I pray to god that 343 industries will declare that game non canon.[/quote] You know they won't. They'll get them to mesh. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II The canon problem between the halo books and Reach can't be fixed[/quote] You're over-reacting. A lot of it has to do with fixing the dates and killing off Jun. That's about it. I'm sitting on the fence for this one. On one hand, I agree with the people that say [i]Reach[/i] broke canon. Dates are completely out of whack, as has been pointed out so many times before and I would have preferred a second class of S-IIs over S-IIIs and a slight change in the story. But on the other hand...I enjoyed the game a little bit more. Not saying the book is bad, second favorite next to [i]GoO[/i] but I prefer the more "it lasted longer then one day" approach. True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.[/quote] -There are two scenerios with this: 1)Somehow during the battle when the UNSC desperatley needed every ship they can have to combat the covies and yet they use a few of them just to being down the Autumn?Doesn't makes any sense 2)Most likely what happened in the game:The autumn never fought in space combat it was all the time on ground(Halsey said on the 29th that autumn was already waiting) .This ruins canon as well because who did dropped blue team at the spacestation?What happened with Red Team?.... Linda doesn't dies,James neither,no Red team jump,.... Canon=destroyed -They should do it.I don't care if Reach get's declared non canon,that game didn't added anything cool to the halo universe except those data pads maybe . -No just no. It hasn't anything to do with just dates. Explain me how Halsey was talking to the sII's during the operation red flag briefing on the 27th of august. According to Jun Red Team was reassigned to civilian bla bla on the 23th of August.Why continue with the red flag briefing if you are in the middle of war? And SWORD base was occupied by the covies at the 23th as well.Said by Jun as well So please tell me how did Halsey talked with her sII's on the 27th if she was stuck in sword base between the 14th and 29th of August??? There are more other canon destruction things. Why do bungie fans don't admit this,Reach wtfpwned the Halo canon. The month long battle is BS.How could +150 ships survive a covie fleet(314-750 ships) for a month and ONI couldn't have kept the invasion as secret for a month for the following reasons -The covenant glassed the citys around the circular lake during the 14th of august,this can be observed in the lnos level . -The entire vierry territoy was at war on the 12th,it's the size of a large continent.You think civilians wouldn't have noticed that? -The supercarrier destroying the UNSC fleet at Reach,something the civilians should have noticed as well -New alexandira -..many more ONI couldn't have kept it a secret,but why not evacuate civilians?Last time i checked UNSC would always evacuate civilans if a planet get's attacked.And the cole protocl has not been used??Why????Give me one good reason for all of this. And what's the ponit again of red flag briefing if the godamn covies were fighting above your head. This games contradicts with all forms of previous canon,even with Halo ce and with the journal. This game is a total disaster.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert exacly rech falling in a month is scary in a way imagine this your on the other side of reach the navy you all fine but you see the army moving arou alot you leave it untill August 30th when 700 ships attack you think wow the army ONI didnt even tell the whole of reach covenant was attacking the viery terrtory, or take into the marines account they wipe out the last of the advance party they cheer untill they get word of the 700 covenant ships swarming in. Your heart would sink to the depths of hell,[/quote] Reach falling in a month is bollocks, plain and simple. [i]Every[/i] other source of canon over the past 9 years has said it fell in a day, that's much more fearful than a month. In Halo Evolutions: Dirt, everyone is surprised to hear that Reach has just fallen, but in the game ONI cover up the invasion for a month and don't even enact the Cole Protocol. It takes them a good week to actually formulate a defence force. And hell, there wasn't anywhere near 750 Covenant ships seen in the game, the most you see is about 7 exit slipspace in LNoS. And even then [i]where are the Orbital MACs?[/i] Making the battle a month long has done nothing but bring up negative repercussions on the rest of Halo's canon, Reach - humanity's military centre and the second-last bastion - falling in a day was much more of a terrifying affair because it all happened so quick.

My thoughts exactly. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] privet caboose Reach did break canon. Infact, it breaks canon within the first 5 minutes of the game. Reach fell on August 30th. That's the day the Covenant found Reach, and decimated the UNSC Fleet. All in one day. The game says that the UNSC lost in over a months time. And without the UNSC even putting up a real fight. It was as if Reach was some random farmer colony. [/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] I don't agree, having read all the books, Cryptum through Evolutions II, in the past 2 weeks. The campaign was great. I can look at Halowiki for the battle of Reach, and the timeline works out just fine for me. I don't bother worrying about semantics such as when the BR was introduced and all that. It doesn't disregard anything, it's just fitting more stuff in. The back of the box for "Halo Combat Evolved" says "You are the last of your kind". So does that totally over screw ALL the books because, hey, the game box said I'm the last, so non of the books are canon, because I'm supposed to be the last, right? That's the same type of wall you'll run into if you're sitting there obsessing about Reach falling in one day. August 30th becomes the day Reach fell. And reading the books, again, makes it highly probable that no human colony fell in a matter of 24 hours. But if you want to box yourself in to things said rather early in the franchise's development and stick with them to the bitter end, be my guest. Next Halo book please.[/quote] Nice point, Alpha, I couldn't agree more, I may only be so open minded to the changes Reach introduced because I'm a comparatively new member of the fandom, but it is still always a much better idea to not entrench oneself too deeply in an early development in a constantly evolving series. Reach falling in a couple hours when other colonies lasted for much long, for instance Harvest, I know there were several battles there, but the UNSC forces lasted for much longer than 24 hours in the most of their battles. I mean take Earth for instance, that lasted for a good long while, yes the UNSC did up the defenses after Reach fell, and it is humanities home world, but if it can last that long it makes no sense for Reach to fall in a couple hours. [/quote]exacly rech falling in a month is scary in a way imagine this your on the other side of reach the navy you all fine but you see the army moving arou alot you leave it untill August 30th when 700 ships attack you think wow the army ONI didnt even tell the whole of reach covenant was attacking the viery terrtory, or take into the marines account they wipe out the last of the advance party they cheer untill they get word of the 700 covenant ships swarming in. Your heart would sink to the depths of hell,[/quote] It's scarier if a planet falls in a day! It shows that the Covenant are something to be feared. Not incompetent dolts.[/quote] Gotta say NO!! having humanity fight the advance party and win they cheer they feel great that they won... but a whole fleet of 700 ships swell that and there hearts sink, there mins boggle knowing they cant win or survive thats the scary side the meanacing side fighting winning after strong odds against them but them 700 ships enter the picture [Edited on 01.21.2011 7:51 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] I don't agree, having read all the books, Cryptum through Evolutions II, in the past 2 weeks. The campaign was great. I can look at Halowiki for the battle of Reach, and the timeline works out just fine for me. I don't bother worrying about semantics such as when the BR was introduced and all that. It doesn't disregard anything, it's just fitting more stuff in. The back of the box for "Halo Combat Evolved" says "You are the last of your kind". So does that totally over screw ALL the books because, hey, the game box said I'm the last, so non of the books are canon, because I'm supposed to be the last, right? That's the same type of wall you'll run into if you're sitting there obsessing about Reach falling in one day. August 30th becomes the day Reach fell. And reading the books, again, makes it highly probable that no human colony fell in a matter of 24 hours. But if you want to box yourself in to things said rather early in the franchise's development and stick with them to the bitter end, be my guest. Next Halo book please.[/quote] Nice point, Alpha, I couldn't agree more, I may only be so open minded to the changes Reach introduced because I'm a comparatively new member of the fandom, but it is still always a much better idea to not entrench oneself too deeply in an early development in a constantly evolving series. Reach falling in a couple hours when other colonies lasted for much long, for instance Harvest, I know there were several battles there, but the UNSC forces lasted for much longer than 24 hours in the most of their battles. I mean take Earth for instance, that lasted for a good long while, yes the UNSC did up the defenses after Reach fell, and it is humanities home world, but if it can last that long it makes no sense for Reach to fall in a couple hours. [/quote]exacly rech falling in a month is scary in a way imagine this your on the other side of reach the navy you all fine but you see the army moving arou alot you leave it untill August 30th when 700 ships attack you think wow the army ONI didnt even tell the whole of reach covenant was attacking the viery terrtory, or take into the marines account they wipe out the last of the advance party they cheer untill they get word of the 700 covenant ships swarming in. Your heart would sink to the depths of hell,[/quote] It's scarier if a planet falls in a day! It shows that the Covenant are something to be feared. Not incompetent dolts.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] I don't agree, having read all the books, Cryptum through Evolutions II, in the past 2 weeks. The campaign was great. I can look at Halowiki for the battle of Reach, and the timeline works out just fine for me. I don't bother worrying about semantics such as when the BR was introduced and all that. It doesn't disregard anything, it's just fitting more stuff in. The back of the box for "Halo Combat Evolved" says "You are the last of your kind". So does that totally over screw ALL the books because, hey, the game box said I'm the last, so non of the books are canon, because I'm supposed to be the last, right? That's the same type of wall you'll run into if you're sitting there obsessing about Reach falling in one day. August 30th becomes the day Reach fell. And reading the books, again, makes it highly probable that no human colony fell in a matter of 24 hours. But if you want to box yourself in to things said rather early in the franchise's development and stick with them to the bitter end, be my guest. Next Halo book please.[/quote] Nice point, Alpha, I couldn't agree more, I may only be so open minded to the changes Reach introduced because I'm a comparatively new member of the fandom, but it is still always a much better idea to not entrench oneself too deeply in an early development in a constantly evolving series. Reach falling in a couple hours when other colonies lasted for much long, for instance Harvest, I know there were several battles there, but the UNSC forces lasted for much longer than 24 hours in the most of their battles. I mean take Earth for instance, that lasted for a good long while, yes the UNSC did up the defenses after Reach fell, and it is humanities home world, but if it can last that long it makes no sense for Reach to fall in a couple hours. [/quote]exacly rech falling in a month is scary in a way imagine this your on the other side of reach the navy you all fine but you see the army moving arou alot you leave it untill August 30th when 700 ships attack you think wow the army ONI didnt even tell the whole of reach covenant was attacking the viery terrtory, or take into the marines account they wipe out the last of the advance party they cheer untill they get word of the 700 covenant ships swarming in. Your heart would sink to the depths of hell, [Edited on 01.21.2011 6:32 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] I don't agree, having read all the books, Cryptum through Evolutions II, in the past 2 weeks. The campaign was great. I can look at Halowiki for the battle of Reach, and the timeline works out just fine for me. I don't bother worrying about semantics such as when the BR was introduced and all that. It doesn't disregard anything, it's just fitting more stuff in. The back of the box for "Halo Combat Evolved" says "You are the last of your kind". So does that totally over screw ALL the books because, hey, the game box said I'm the last, so non of the books are canon, because I'm supposed to be the last, right? That's the same type of wall you'll run into if you're sitting there obsessing about Reach falling in one day. August 30th becomes the day Reach fell. And reading the books, again, makes it highly probable that no human colony fell in a matter of 24 hours. But if you want to box yourself in to things said rather early in the franchise's development and stick with them to the bitter end, be my guest. Next Halo book please.[/quote] Nice point, Alpha, I couldn't agree more, I may only be so open minded to the changes Reach introduced because I'm a comparatively new member of the fandom, but it is still always a much better idea to not entrench oneself too deeply in an early development in a constantly evolving series. Reach falling in a couple hours when other colonies lasted for much long, for instance Harvest, I know there were several battles there, but the UNSC forces lasted for much longer than 24 hours in the most of their battles. I mean take Earth for instance, that lasted for a good long while, yes the UNSC did up the defenses after Reach fell, and it is humanities home world, but if it can last that long it makes no sense for Reach to fall in a couple hourse.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II And how the -blam!- did a Halycon class cruiser even landed on Reach??That ship can't fly in the goddamn atmosphere.[/quote] More then likely brought in by a few atmosphere capable ships. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II I pray to god that 343 industries will declare that game non canon.[/quote] You know they won't. They'll get them to mesh. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II The canon problem between the halo books and Reach can't be fixed[/quote] You're over-reacting. A lot of it has to do with fixing the dates and killing off Jun. That's about it. I'm sitting on the fence for this one. On one hand, I agree with the people that say [i]Reach[/i] broke canon. Dates are completely out of whack, as has been pointed out so many times before and I would have preferred a second class of S-IIs over S-IIIs and a slight change in the story. But on the other hand...I enjoyed the game a little bit more. Not saying the book is bad, second favorite next to [i]GoO[/i] but I prefer the more "it lasted longer then one day" approach. True, I have problem with a month long invasion but starting said attack somewhere in mid-August? I would have been fine with that IMO.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe But my statement can be read as: I will finally make my post when OrderedComa comes back in and jumps on your wagon.I don't like making posts twice solely because the first is ignored due to other comments. Happy? "Manuals and other guides are on a lower tier than the novels in terms of canon, so it can be overwritten with no problem. The game itself never says directly that MC is the last Spartan either." [/quote] So you made a statement that when you feel like it, you'll make a statement? Thanks for the info, I guess? And I was simply using the manual thing as an example of "don't get so hung up on stuff you saw early being changed", which was kind of the body of my post....

No, what I said was, and I'm copying and pasting this, "I could write paragraphs arguing your point on how the humans can survive longer than 24 hours, but I don't feel like doing that right now. [b] I'm gonna have to repeat myself at a later time anyways so maybe I'll do that then.[/b]" Go back and see if you want, I didn't edit it. Oh, and if you want to know if I'm a troll, just go look at my other posts in this thread or any others regarding Reach canon. But my statement can be read as: I will finally make my post when OrderedComa comes back in and jumps on your wagon.I don't like making posts twice solely because the first is ignored due to other comments. Happy? Since you edited your post, I will edit this one as well. I find it funny that you think I didn't make a point. Okay, so what is this then? Again, copying and pasting. "Manuals and other guides are on a lower tier than the novels in terms of canon, so it can be overwritten with no problem. The game itself never says directly that MC is the last Spartan either." Unless you don't understand that I'm referring to your point of MC being the last Spartan, I guess I should tell you that that's what it's for. My post= point. [Edited on 01.21.2011 5:03 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [/quote] Actually, after re-reading your post, I don't know what you're getting at, or what point you're trying to make, other than you don't want to make it now. So why post? [/quote] Why argue what's been said a thousand times in this thread over and over again? I guess fanboys(not the OP, but he is on their side in the argument) do have one thing on their side: they are persistent as hell.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Beowolfe [/quote] Actually, after re-reading your post, I don't know what you're getting at, or what point you're trying to make, other than you don't want to make it now. So why post? [Edited on 01.21.2011 4:57 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] I don't agree, having read all the books, Cryptum through Evolutions II, in the past 2 weeks. The campaign was great. I can look at Halowiki for the battle of Reach, and the timeline works out just fine for me. I don't bother worrying about semantics such as when the BR was introduced and all that. It doesn't disregard anything, it's just fitting more stuff in. The back of the box for "Halo Combat Evolved" says "You are the last of your kind". So does that totally over screw ALL the books because, hey, the game box said I'm the last, so non of the books are canon, because I'm supposed to be the last, right? That's the same type of wall you'll run into if you're sitting there obsessing about Reach falling in one day. August 30th becomes the day Reach fell. And reading the books, again, makes it highly probable that no human colony fell in a matter of 24 hours. But if you want to box yourself in to things said rather early in the franchise's development and stick with them to the bitter end, be my guest. Next Halo book please.[/quote] Well, no. If we're playing that game then it's simple. Manuals and other guides are on a lower tier than the novels in terms of canon, so it can be overwritten with no problem. The game itself never says directly that MC is the last Spartan either. I could write paragraphs arguing your point on how the humans can survive longer than 24 hours, but I don't feel like doing that right now. I'm gonna have to repeat myself at a later time anyways so maybe I'll do that then.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] C SEC Agent 1. Reach's fall was extended tenfold in the game compared to the book. 2. PoA was never on Reach. 3. Where were the Orbital MAC guns? 4. By extension of #2, Cortana couldn't have been getting a piggyback ride from N6. 5. Jorge The list goes on, up until around the number 15.[/quote] THis is what I think with your five choices: 1) They explain it to be a strike force or survelilence team. Or scout, whatever. 2)Agreed 3) Agreed 4) That wasn't Cortana. That was a part of Cortana, which intentionly had Halo's coordinates, making the jump non-random. 5) Agreed.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HLG ROGUE16 Halsey's journal barely addresses jack squat as Chris Farley might say.. all iot shows is that jun got killed[/quote] No it doesn't. Halsey's journal ends as Noble Team are outside her door by the Latchkey Artefact, last time I checked Jun is still alive then. -_-

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] I don't agree, having read all the books, Cryptum through Evolutions II, in the past 2 weeks. The campaign was great. I can look at Halowiki for the battle of Reach, and the timeline works out just fine for me. I don't bother worrying about semantics such as when the BR was introduced and all that. It doesn't disregard anything, it's just fitting more stuff in. The back of the box for "Halo Combat Evolved" says "You are the last of your kind". So does that totally over screw ALL the books because, hey, the game box said I'm the last, so non of the books are canon, because I'm supposed to be the last, right? That's the same type of wall you'll run into if you're sitting there obsessing about Reach falling in one day. August 30th becomes the day Reach fell. And reading the books, again, makes it highly probable that no human colony fell in a matter of 24 hours. But if you want to box yourself in to things said rather early in the franchise's development and stick with them to the bitter end, be my guest. Next Halo book please.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] haloplayer2kill [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X Do the stories being told suddenly become crappier because of a few date mishaps? No. So what's the big deal?[/quote] A few date mishaps? They dragged the whole time line out for a [i]month[/i]! And that's just the tip of the iceberg.[/quote] So what? Fall of Reach was written without the foreknowledge that the Halo Universe was going to get much much bigger. It's still a good book. Would you rather them just write off the whole novel series because of some inconsistencies? Look at Robotech. 21 books. All completely disregarded so they could destroy that entire canon by making a crappy 90 minute movie that sucked, badly. That was a bit drastic, I thought. Reach vs.FoR hiccups weren't that big of deal to me. You guys are so hung up on the "Reach fell in one day" being changed, when it's been made fairly clear throughout the rest of the novels that the Covy ain't wiping out any planet completely in 24 hours, especially if it has Forerunner toys on it. It's not like they started saying the Spartans get their powers from Midochlorians all of the sudden.[/quote] If you read TFOR you would know the covenant DID NOT glass the whole planet, most of it, however they left the places with the "forerunner toys" untouched by their weapons. PS: Jedi don't get their powers from Midochlorians either, they get it from the Force, the midochlorians are just used to help them access the force, the midochlorians are therefore not the force itself. I don't know why many Star Wars fan went psycho when they heard about midochlorians. [/quote] I don't think Alpha was saying that Reach was destroyed, he was making a point that none of the other planets encountered in the Halo lore fell in a couple hours, planets that were no where near the significance of Reach even.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X Do the stories being told suddenly become crappier because of a few date mishaps? No. So what's the big deal?[/quote] A few date mishaps? They dragged the whole time line out for a [i]month[/i]! And that's just the tip of the iceberg.[/quote] So what? Fall of Reach was written without the foreknowledge that the Halo Universe was going to get much much bigger. It's still a good book. Would you rather them just write off the whole novel series because of some inconsistencies? Look at Robotech. 21 books. All completely disregarded so they could destroy that entire canon by making a crappy 90 minute movie that sucked, badly. That was a bit drastic, I thought. Reach vs.FoR hiccups weren't that big of deal to me. You guys are so hung up on the "Reach fell in one day" being changed, when it's been made fairly clear throughout the rest of the novels that the Covy ain't wiping out any planet completely in 24 hours, especially if it has Forerunner toys on it. It's not like they started saying the Spartans get their powers from Midochlorians all of the sudden.[/quote] They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.[/quote] There is nothing disregarded at all, the date of the Fleet of Justice's arrival is pushed back to the 14th, and the UNSC lasts two weeks against it. Granted, there are some things that need adjusting with this new timeline, such as the dates involved with the Red Flag Op, but nothing is disregarded, and much of the events of TFoR can, and still do, happen. And whether the campaign felt mediocre or not is a simple matter of opinion, no two people will completely agree. I feel the campaign was a worthy sequel and throwback to Halo:CE.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrnDragn [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AlphaZero X Do the stories being told suddenly become crappier because of a few date mishaps? No. So what's the big deal?[/quote] A few date mishaps? They dragged the whole time line out for a [i]month[/i]! And that's just the tip of the iceberg.[/quote] So what? Fall of Reach was written without the foreknowledge that the Halo Universe was going to get much much bigger. It's still a good book. Would you rather them just write off the whole novel series because of some inconsistencies? Look at Robotech. 21 books. All completely disregarded so they could destroy that entire canon by making a crappy 90 minute movie that sucked, badly. That was a bit drastic, I thought. Reach vs.FoR hiccups weren't that big of deal to me. You guys are so hung up on the "Reach fell in one day" being changed, when it's been made fairly clear throughout the rest of the novels that the Covy ain't wiping out any planet completely in 24 hours, especially if it has Forerunner toys on it. It's not like they started saying the Spartans get their powers from Midochlorians all of the sudden.[/quote] They changed so much more than the dates. It's not just the time, it was the fact that it disregards previously established Halo Canon, all so that they could make a mediocre campaign.