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Edited by Griffin Soreil:
2/18/2018 12:19:41 AM
34
The Fall of Osiris comic and visual disconnect
This started as a reply to a comment made by @kellygreen2 here: [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/243051479?sort=0&page=0[/url] and I got a little carried away. Hope you enjoy.
[quote]You are dealing with people who live for 2 or three CENTURIES if they are "simply" human, or are IMMORTAL if they are Guardians. So you may being seeing how these people were several hundred years ago....and they've had centuries to grow up...and grow wiser by the time of the events of Destiny 1.[/quote]
Osiris' banishment is typically portrayed as being decades, if not a few centuries, before our Guardian is Risen. I think the most jarring thing about the comics, and I've said this before, is that there is [i]zero[/i] visual distinction between the characters' design in the comics and the games. They all look the same. As a result, having these characters who look completely identical to the ones in game who we already know act completely different creates a vast disconnect, and it's confusing to the reader.
This is, at least I think, because humans grow and change over time. It's part of life. We get taller, we gain weight, we lose hair, we gain hair in other places, and so on. Guardians don't change. They're functionally immortal. They don't age, or change size or shape. There's no way to subtly hint at the passage of time with a few extra wrinkles. In fiction, physical growth is usually used as a method of showing a change in who a character is as a person at the same time. Think of Zuko with his short hair in Avatar: The Last Airbender, or Soldier 76 in Overwatch. These characters physically change to reflect their mental state.
We don't see this with Guardians and the visual similarity despite their significant difference in character is something that breaks from their established 'look.' As a result, it grinds with our general perception of the way characters develop in fiction. It's tough to suspend disbelief that after all this time, the characters haven't changed at all. But if they had gone an extra few steps with the way the characters look... say, given the Speaker a different mask, and given Ikora a different hairstyle and tunic, the characters would be visually distinct enough to represent different personalities while retaining the same character.
What do you guys think? Would having characters visually distinct from the game have made the Fall of Osiris comics more acceptable to you? Let me know what you think, and thanks for reading my ramble. :)
Edit: [spoiler]I [b]don't[/b] suggest that the characters be aged, since I notice that there are a lot of you taking that away from my post, rather than a general idea about characters being visually distinct in order to make it make a little more sense that these characters are acting differently than normal. As I ask in the post, would having characters visually distinct from the game have made the Fall of Osiris comics more acceptable to you? I'm not trying to talk about how Destiny sucks, I know that the games suck and Bungie screwed it up but the story deserves better.[/spoiler]
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*sigh* if we look at existing grimoir entries, it's well established that his banishment takes places within the last ten years after the battle of twilight gap. Years. Not decades. Not centuries. His obsession with the vex was obviously all consuming (assuming you played the DLC, you'd know this). And given that he was the VANGUARD COMMANDER, there's no way any standing army would tolerate a leader who isn't focused on his job.
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1 ReplyDarkside just put up a video, the lore is a joke at this point
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4 RepliesEdited by TeddyBundy: 2/16/2018 11:45:03 PMDestiny 2 is the Kim Kardashian of the gaming industry: Beautiful to look at, but most definitely a shallow, dumbed down, simpleminded and selfish gold digger. It shat on everything that made the first game great: The gameplay, the build possibilities, the hidden secrets and mysteries, the awesome weapons to chase after, the fastpaced chaotic superhero feeling, the incredible coop moments...and especially the lore. So who cares about those comics that just create even more inconsistencies. It‘s clear that the creators lack any passion this game desperately needs to be a worthy sequel. D1 had many flaws, yes. It was a mediocre start of an awesome journey...but it at least tried and was the perfect base for epic sequels to follow. But the journey stopped right away with the next installment. I really hope the gaming industry will always see this game as what it is: A dead end that should be avoided at all costs. If you ever consider to create a game/franchise, DO NOT copy the path of Destiny‘s parapledgic younger sibling.
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1 ReplyI kinda agree with you. Fashion always changes. And even I get bored of wearing red all the time on my Titan.
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1 ReplyThe real problem is destiny has no officially established timeline. Ageless guardians who change relatively little isn’t as much an issue if actual durations between events are known. Early on I felt the vagueness was an effective tool, helping reinforce the unknown world we found ourselves in. Now, it’s a weakness. As the story matures, details are needed. The story is starting to suffer as a result
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5 RepliesGood point. The comic is based around D2 so there was no point in Ikora or others from changing gear because it’s only cosmetic. And the tower doesn’t offer any hairstyle or other appearance changes after Guardian creation/initial resurrection. Cause the only thing that remained canon for Destiny is the shitty in game systems.
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1 ReplySo much more disconnect than just that, the whole initial premise of D2 is faulty in that anyone 'Risen' or reanimated by Light should have fallen back over dead without it. That's just my opinion. You also presume how human consciousness behaves with Light or after being reconstructed by something that isn't a spiritual or biological process of innumerable trials, errors, and experiences. I can't recall who suggested it but raised the question of if the Light distorts a Guardian's faith mechanism or worldview to accommodate that of the Traveler's intent, ie brainwashing. In my understanding Light is simply data in a physical or metaphysical state.
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4 RepliesPretty sure no one said guardians are human 😟
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1 ReplyI agree with your point but the biggest 'hole' in the comics themselves is the narrative. And whilst I do not want to sound precious about it, the narrative structure of the comics (and D2 generally, compared to D1) is a massive regression. As a person of a certain age and a teacher of kids, one of the worst things a writer can do is second guess their audiences tastes. Kids do not want ‘kids' stories, they, like literate adults, feel cheated and that the author is trying to pander to them and intellectually patronising. They want depth, even if they do not fully grasp the nuances of the characters, relationships or structure. Not being able to grasp these nuances is not problematic but a very positive thing. These nuances of story-telling give the best stories longevity, in the same way now as when humans huddled around fires in caves to listen elders tales of heroic figures, myths, ancestors, knowledge (or whatever subject) thousands of years ago before the advent of technological progress, together, as a whole multi-generational social unit. This is how people learned then, as it is (and should be) now.
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1 ReplyI don't have a problem with characters looking the same. We are immortal. We don't age.
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3 RepliesThey are guardians. Magical space zombies who don't seem to age. I mean our ghosts practically make us out of engrams. In b4 D3 our guardians can duplicate.... /sarcasm
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1 ReplyThe way i see it, you're like a vampire. Your genetic code is what they use to regrow your body. The ghost pumps it's juice into you to accelerate a rapid healing process. Aging is a form of physical damage. Your ghost would be able to restore that genetic code. I don't think physically aging is a feature of a guardian. We see the Zavala trailer and he doesnt really change then throughout either. I do agree however that their cultures, experiences, and attire could vastly change. And it should. The comic does not do this either.
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Maybe they don't have enough Silver Dust to buy any cosmetics
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2 RepliesYou also don't get more open minded or better at talking to people by shutting yourself away from anyone else for any number of years. If anything that only serves to make you bitter, depressed, or senile. It's easy to say "Time passed, thus, he changed." And while plausible... and not impossible... That doesn't make it believable... nor interesting.
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5 RepliesIn the comics Shaxx has both his horns, only difference I could find 😂
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The comics (so far) are not how the Destiny lore storyline was meant to progress.... at some point it all went downhill to a childs level.
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#[i]makingitupastheygoalong[/i]
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Part of the problem is the lack of a calendar. Like, if Osiris was exiled in, say, 2526, and our Guardian was revived in, say, 2804, we have a frame of reference. With no aging and no calendar, it could have been five years, or 50, or 555.
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Edited by Vlyoshx: 2/17/2018 9:03:36 AMThe age is really interesting.... How old do you think Saint 14 was before he “died”?
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5 RepliesWhere is my code?
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I agree
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While I understand that guardians may no longer age, I refuse to believe that they'd wear the same shit for decades. Not just from a "I should probably change this shirt" aspect, but also in the sense of that, just like how the way they think changes over time, their choice of armor or adornment would change over time. The deal with the comic is that it handles the portrayal of the passage of time very poorly. There isn't really a solid cue on how much time passes between the events even if we could interpolate that ourselves.
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2 RepliesEdited by The_Nystro: 2/16/2018 9:59:28 PMDo guardians even age any more?
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1 ReplyEdited by BannedMythicAccount: 2/16/2018 10:04:57 PMit's fiction. The quality should have a direct correlation with consistency. Destiny has had poor story since its inception, regardless of the now unobtainable 'official' lore in the obscure grimoire. They dropped the ball with D2 story and again with comic, visuals being a success DOES NOT matter if the main course sucked balls. Otherwise it would just be a visually stunning piece of shhh... oh wait that reminds me of something outside the comic medium that is related to Destiny 2. Basically I'm saying, the visual disconnect takes a backseat to the story disconnect this franchise has.
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Edited by Chadillac722: 2/16/2018 10:33:36 PMThey may not age but they could've had them wear something different than we're always used to seeing them wear, to show it's a different time period. Surely guardians gear and fashion sense should evolve over a couple hundred years, right? Edit: sorry, didn't finish the last little bit when I posted this reply, you pretty much suggested the same thing.
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Edited by Saxifraga: 2/17/2018 7:59:13 PMThe whole potential of the Destiny universe is underdeveloped and mostly unused. It has all devolved into bickering and cheap jokes. There is so much you can do with the fact alone that you have normal humans who get either born and die in a desolate place outside the city or inside where they are not allowed to leave, while immortal Guardians with god like powers rule them. Hawthorn peeked a bit in that direction, but all critique was forgetten in an instant. For a game about virtually immortal characters, the story telling is forgetable. The introductory movie sequence that shows Zavala getting resurrected and slowly becoming the leader he is supposed to be, was the only good cinematics in all of D2s ad campaign. It hinted at a depth that was never explored, because this game is all about stupid dialog and marketing Everworse trinkets. Share holder value capitalism kills everything, because it disregards visions and ideas they think don't produce enough profit.
