JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Machavocado: 8/17/2017 5:25:32 AM
11

Beta Feedback - Pros, Cons and Everything In Between

Been busy with work, but I finally finished writing this up. Let's jump straight to it. [b][u]Pros:[/u][/b] - Controls feel fluid and sharp, as I very well expected. I never really had an issue with the way Destiny played. That level of polish has carried over to the sequel. Running speed and movement in general feels a tad slower, particularly for Warlocks, but it's negligible for my taste. - I hope they add more exotics like Sweet Business, which felt especially unique considering that it's an auto rifle that essentially functions like a chain gun. That kind of gameplay alteration felt quite refreshing considering that some exotics in D1 can nearly pass as legendaries. - Audio design and soundtrack is pretty solid. Weapons feel like they pack more of a punch because of the way they sound when they fire. - Boss phases. While the strike boss wasn't particularly impressive by way of mechanics, I admire that Bungie has improved its combat philosophy for boss fights. Boss phases certainly increase the fun factor when compared to some D1 strike bosses (looking at you Valus Ta'aurc). [b][u]Cons:[/u][/b] - The new loadout system seriously hurts PVE. I just don't get the same gameplay versatility I had in D1. Jumping in mid-range with a hand cannon, to then create some distance with a sniper rifle and take down elite enemies that just spawned, to then jump right back into the action again with a rocket launcher to remove the remaining trash.....that level of movement and tact just doesn't feel as effective here. Elemental weapons just lack the damage output that Special weapons would give you, though the bigger issue here is running what is essentially two primaries, a design choice that seemingly dulls gunplay. Bullet sponge enemies like the strike boss were especially tedious to take down, and not because the fight was mechanically challenging, but because it felt like I was inching away at its health with a pea shooter only to have another pea shooter in reserve. - Piggybacking off of the previous bullet point, too many weapons are locked out in the Power slot. Limiting so many weapons to one slot severely restricts gameplay variety, which further adds to the tedium of running two primaries. More than half of the weapon archetypes are locked in the Power slot, and it also doesn't help that Power ammo is extremely scarce to come by. - Subclasses have been overly streamlined at the expense of customization, and although Supers are certainly flashier, everything is too homogenized. This has removed a certain element of diversity and build choice. Dawnblade, Striker, Arcstrider and even Sentinel, to some degree, all feel too similar in functionality with roaming offensive supers. At least Sentinels can drop Ward of Dawn or hold a void shield up. The others, however, simply lack utility. The Arcstrider is a good example. With the removal of invisibility and the Vanish modifier, I can longer use my Super to dash around the playing space to revive fallen teammates. Sure, Arcstrider can clear adds, but it's not nearly as effective as Bladedancer, which had the Encore modifier that extended the duration of the Super after every kill, which was excellent for removing hordes of incoming trash mobs. - Speaking of Hunters, they really got the short end of the stick with their class ability. Even ignoring that it doesn't help in team oriented combat, the Dodge ability is noticeably weaker in PVE than both the Rift and Barricade abilities. Proclaimed to be solo and DPS focused, I'm afraid the Dodge ability doesn't effectively deliver on any of these fronts. Empowering Rift for Warlocks adds a considerable amount of DPS, and for a considerable amount of time. Titans instantly reload their weapon every time they take cover with Rally Barricade. Titans and Warlocks have class abilities that effectively produce defensive and offensive support for the team AND solo play (though I need verification on whether teammates can also use Rally Barricade for instant reload on cover, if not, then scratch team offensive support for Titans). With a long cool down timer, no invincibility frames and lack of durational team and/or self buffs, the Dodge is looking pretty weak right now. Although the constant chaining of melee and dodge refresh with Arcstrider is pretty cool, it's not very practical in PVE. Clearing trash mobs is nothing a well placed grenade or some fine sharpshooting can't handle quicker from a safe distance. - Ability and Super cooldowns are much too long. All of the "space magic," so to speak, really adds to the fantasy of what makes Destiny, Destiny. To weaken that element of the game honestly makes it less interesting to play. It makes it feel like any other generic shooter forcing you to slog through waves of enemies without anything other than your gun. [b][u]On the fence:[/u][/b] - Although story missions are heralded to be more cinematic, the opening mission felt like a theme park attraction. Sure, NPC's show up, but these moments are brief and heavily scripted. Hopefully in later missions, NPC's will aid us on the battlefield, guide us through ominous caverns, etc. Surely, it's just the first mission, and it does at least feel like a decent improvement over D1's story presentation. The first mission alone was littered with cutscenes and I felt pretty good about its pacing, although I would like to see new mechanics outside of moving from corridor to corridor fighting wave after wave of enemies. I quite enjoyed the fan section, despite the controversy surrounding its "difficulty." - So far, I'm not too content about seeing the same enemy races, however, I was happy to see a fair amount of new enemy types between the Fallen and the Cabal (not so much the Vex). - Jumping back to Supers here, I really enjoyed the Sentinel subclass. It's "Captain America" Super is effective both offensively and defensively. However, it's the only Super right now that this. Sentinels can drop Ward of Dawn, shield bash at close range, throw a shield at long range AND hold a shield up for protection while moving. They have the most versatile Super in the game (for now). If Bungie is trying to homogenize subclasses, then I feel like the Sentinel's design philosophy should carry over to all of them. [b][u]Potential improvements:[/u][/b] Unfortunately, the majority of my concerns with D2 stem from design choices (oversimplified subclass trees, the new loadout system, etcetera). At this stage in the game, I highly doubt most of my concerns can or would be addressed, though here are a few things I think can be tweaked, if not by release, at least down the pipeline (Super and Ability cooldowns and Power ammo drops are already being addressed): - Rebalance fusion rifles and linear fusion rifles and make them exclusive to the Elemental slot. Surely, you cannot equip them in your Kinetic slot as they are intrinsically elemental weapons. The only long range weapon in the Kinetic and Elemental slots is the scout rifle. Adding linear fusion rifles brings another gun to the mix as a long range option and also clears space in the already stacked Power weapon slot. - This would be a more significant change but I feel it's sorely needed. Hunters really need a more effective class ability. I've read some pretty solid suggestions on the forum so far. Perhaps the cooldown could be left as is, but also give Hunters the option to use a different class ability when stationary. Perhaps holding down O/B without moving drops the Nightstalker's smoke bomb for group invisibility and/or an envenomed bomb that buffs the team with damage over time toxin damage. If not that, then perhaps Hunters can drop toxic spikes for brief damage over time or spikes that slow enemy movement on the ground after every Dodge use. The latter will at least contribute to team play in some way by providing add control while also staying faithful to the design choice that Hunters should always be on the move. I do hope invisibility makes a return in some form though, whether it's through class abilities or through a specific subclass like Nightstalker. [b][u]Final thoughts:[/u][/b] All in all, I would be dishonest if I told you that I wasn't disappointed with the Beta. Seeing these design changes come to fruition certainly hasn't removed my concerns, but rather, has brought them forward. I definitely agree with those who feel that these changes have negatively affected PVE to better balance PVP, which is a shame because I spent most of my time playing PVE in D1. Though I must disagree with those who feel that the game is more difficult. I certainly don't find it more difficult, but more so tedious. Slower cooldowns and a smaller pool of weapon archetypes in our first two weapon slots just makes for a more monotonous and uninteresting experience than what I was used to in D1, even after a few days of playing. Longer TTK in PVE doesn't make for more tactical, team oriented gameplay without interesting mechanics and smart enemy design that challenges players to strategize about how to press forward as a team. That's what makes Destiny's Raids stand out above content seen in other shooters. Of course, there's still a lot we don't know about D2. I'm well aware that the Beta is just a small slice of what's to come, but I also can't ignore the glaring design choices that already dampen the experience - at least for me. Looking forward to seeing how Bungie will address Beta feedback. What are your thoughts?

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I think this is some really good stuff. Some thoughts of my own... * Hunters' class ability really does stick out as having zero support potential. I would personally totally second your idea of smoke. Maybe a choice between toxic smoke to hurt and slow enemies, or vanish in smoke for your buddies. * I think shotguns should be kinetic weapons, with some rebalancing. Reduce pellet count to 9, and reduce pellet damage so they can't one-shot in PvP. They could be the same up-close shredders in PvE that they are now. * And ability cooldowns are the biggest issue. I remember Destiny's initial review, which stated that the differences between characters were surprisingly minor, that 90% of the game was gunplay. Seems like that's 97 or so now...

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • A good bit of things on our con lists are supposedly already being dealt with in some fashion or another... beta being the older build and all that nonsense that spilled out in the interviews. Hopefully those changes are indeed for the better. Looks like the PC beta may be tuned a bit better. Will be interesting to see the feedback that comes from that cycle.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I'm on the fence about the load out design change, I'm HOPING that there's more diverse weapons like sweet business to use as primaries but have to wait and see. As far as supers and abilities tho, I agree that the supers feel boring and less "super" like. Hunter feels awkward all around and the ability needs work badly, I played hunter exclusively for three years and I'm very disappointed with what I've experienced in the beta as far as hunter is concerned.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • No offence OP, but I wasn't actually expecting a balanced review of the beta or agree with. Very well said.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • For the suggestion for the hunter ability, it would probably make more sense to have the smoke bomb thing be activated when you firmly hold O/B instead of double tapping.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • Sweet business is, if you have to use a primary, a boss melter. I love it.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      3 Replies
      • Some good well thought out points

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Solid post. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything else to add, you've pretty much summed up feeling on the Beta.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Lump. Oh, wait! I mean bump!

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Bump

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Good read, and fairly spot on to what I feel went wrong. 👍

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      You are not allowed to view this content.
      ;
      preload icon
      preload icon
      preload icon