[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] sergent murder many, many turtles.[/quote] See the TURTLE of enormous girth, on his shell he holds the earth!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheMayaMC How hard is it to understand nothing? its just empty space, there's no wall, edge, or end to nothing.[/quote] It's harder than that. Try to imagine no color; I mean nothing, no black or white color. It is impossible. The human mind thinks with color all the time, be it blankness or darkness. It's more than just endless, wall-less, and edgeless. What does nothing look like? What would a human being do if he/she saw it? Would they go insane? What would it be like existing in nothing? Like someone said waaaaaaaaay earlier, nothing means ABSOLUTELY nothing; no vacuum, color, atoms, or even empty space. Empty space is something.

many, many turtles.

I was going to make a separate topic on this, but I guess it would have a better chance at intelligent discussion if I posted it in here. If there aren't any replies I'll try reposting it later. OK, what do you guys think about the possibility that all the unexplained, supernatural aspects of our universe could be caused by interference from a higher dimension? Think about our universe as being two-dimensional instead of in 3D. Everything would be perfectly flat, our field of vision would be a single line, and we would have not be able to grasp the concept of up and down. Our entire universe would be defined by forward-backward and left-right. Now, imagine what it would be like to be a three-dimensional creature looking down on our 2D universe. Any being in this position would have godlike power over us. They could closely monitor us without our being aware. They could see the inside and outside of everything simultaneously. They could pluck 2D objects and move them thru 3D space; to us it would look like the object had suddenly vanished, then reappeared somewhere else. They could take a 2D object, flip it over in 3D space, and put it back - to us it would be a mirror image of itself. They could access the most secure containers, kill things by touching their insides, abduct people without explanation, teleport things... they could even insert part of their 3D bodies into our 2D plane and create what would look like to us as shifting blobs of matter, constantly changing forms as different cross sections of the being's arms, legs, clothes, etc came into our universe... If you think about it, a four-dimensional creature would be able to do the same things to our universe. They could look at a house and see the inside and outside of every room. They could teleport from place to place. They could abduct people. They would be invincible to our weapons. They could hover just inches above our universe and spy on us. They would be like gods. Maybe it's possible that our universe is in this situation. Maybe all the stories of ghosts, alien abductions, and ancient gods were actually caused by the actions of four dimensional beings. I'm not saying that this is true, or that I believe it, but it makes very interesting food for thought. What do you think? PS: The idea of a 3D being interacting with a 2D universe is discussed more in-depth by the book Flatland. More info [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland]here[/url].

So basically you're saying that what we think of as parallel universes are actually one giant universe, that is so long that it wraps around itself? That's really hard to comprehend, espeially the time aspect. Just thinking that a part of *our* universe that's normally quadrillions of miles away, and billions of years backwards or forwards in time... could be just a few inches away from us, in a direction we can't imagine... It's interesting to think about.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jordan117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] free tibet The universe could be a 4-dimensional sphere, in the same way that the Earth is a 3-dimensional sphere. If you keep traveling in one direction, you would end up in the same 4-dimensional place, i.e. the same point in time. Just as if you were to travel around the Earth in one direction, you would end up in the same 3-dimensional place that you started from. [/quote] Here I go switching positions again... Thinking about this theory, you have to ask yourself: what is inside that sphere? Or outside of it? Is it a 4D space? Is it nothing? That's one of the interesting things about a theory called Brane Cosmology. It says that our whole universe is actually a 4D membrane floating through a much grander 11D multiverse, and that there are countless other universe-membranes floating in this multidimensional space with us. It also says that the Big Bang occured because our membrane collided with another one... mind-boggling stuff... [/quote] I find the idea of membranes very useful in visualizing this kind of thing. We live in a 3 dimensional universe. To represent this, imagine stepping back a dimension, so our 3-dimensional universe is represented by a 2-dimensional membrane, and time (the 4th dimension) is represented by 3 dimensions. According to Einstein, gravity is caused by large masses creating a 3 dimensional dent in our 2D membrane, therefore drawing in matter around it. A black hole would create a hugely steep and deep dent in our membrane that no matter or light or even space or time could escape from. If there are parrallel universes (represented by more 2D membranes side by side, like the sheets of paper in a book), and supposing there was matter so dense that it made a huge dent in space and penetrated the next universe. This would be a "super hole" and due to the process of diffusion, the matter from the membrane universe with more matter in it would flow through the hole and into the next universe. This would appear in the next universe as a "white hole", or, to express it another way, a huge explosion of matter, space, time and light from a small point. Sound familiar? Now, supposing the membrane universes were connected like a roll of tape in a huge loop, this would mean that time is infact a loop, that continues infinitely. A "super hole" connected to 2 places in the loop would cause matter transfer through time, for example matter/time/space/light would flow from the time of the "big crunch" (if it happens) to the time of the big bang. This would effectively mean that time travel is possible. What do you think?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SgtSTFU [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jordan117 Even if you could catch up to the edge of the universe (impossible since it is expanding at FTL speed), there would be nothing to step into. The universe is a physical space. Even in the most remote regions between stars there is a three-dimensional empty space that objects can move in. But when that space ends, there's nothing to move to. There is no universe, there is no space, there is no physical reality. There's just nothing. And by nothing, I don't mean blackness, or vacuum, but literally nothing at all.[/quote] Which is physically impossible to comprehend. I have a rolidex of theories in my head.. its all too much to organize and pour out on here.. the only way i could is if someone gave me a specific point to elaborate on, or explain.[/quote] yes this is true, can you imaging [b] nothing[/b]? really, we imaging noithing as a white or black background, but that is somthing, it is color. no one can imagin nothing... its is not possible, and if we did see nothing, then we would literally be..... i dont know..

I know whats out there, nothing but [b] HELL [/b] ha! you thought I was going to say something alse.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] free tibet The universe could be a 4-dimensional sphere, in the same way that the Earth is a 3-dimensional sphere. If you keep traveling in one direction, you would end up in the same 4-dimensional place, i.e. the same point in time. Just as if you were to travel around the Earth in one direction, you would end up in the same 3-dimensional place that you started from. [/quote] Here I go switching positions again... Thinking about this theory, you have to ask yourself: what is inside that sphere? Or outside of it? Is it a 4D space? Is it nothing? That's one of the interesting things about a theory called Brane Cosmology. It says that our whole universe is actually a 4D membrane floating through a much grander 11D multiverse, and that there are countless other universe-membranes floating in this multidimensional space with us. It also says that the Big Bang occured because our membrane collided with another one... mind-boggling stuff... [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_cosmology]Here's a Wikipedia link (Brane Comology)[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekpyrotic]And another one (Ekpyrotic Universe)[/url]

tsp

The Universe is basically this, it may be a 5 demension reality, 1st demension, the physical realm, 2nd, the mental realm, 3rd the sprital realm (the abyss), and the 4th, time realm, all of these loop togther, with time ever expanding, the universe expands as well since it is not endless, but it does not go on forever, but it gets bigger... its like a balloon, it gets bigger in that way, we are inside of it thought, so there is no way to get out of it, exept through the abyss. now there could be a 5th demension... anti time, if the 5th demension is real, it would make time travel possible, in a way, you would only be able to go into the future, but you would be stuck... [Edited on 9/25/2005]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] elmicker The universe doesnt expand that fast, nothing can go faster than light, etc. etc.... [/quote] No, things can go faster than light. First off, Einstein's theory was that "nothing could [i]accelerate[/i] faster than the speed of light." But will you really hang off of the theory of a mere human? After all, that's just what we are, right?

free tibet, I did NOT get what you were saying :p As for the universe curving back to meet itself, I don't know. Scientists think it might be shaped like a doughnut, which could explain your theory.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SgtSTFU I have a rolidex of theories in my head.. its all too much to organize and pour out on here.. the only way i could is if someone gave me a specific point to elaborate on, or explain.[/quote] I know how you feel. I'm kinda playing devil's advocate with all of these views... a few pages back I argued that the universe had no boundary, but curved back to meet itself, like some other people are saying. Now I'm saying that there is an edge, but it's impossible to cross. It's easy to argue for or against these theories, but impossible to settle on what's actually true.

What do you all think of the theory I posted a few posts up? Incase you can't be bothered to scroll, here it is again: [quote]The universe could be a 4-dimensional sphere, in the same way that the Earth is a 3-dimensional sphere. If you keep traveling in one direction, you would end up in the same 4-dimensional place, i.e. the same point in time. Just as if you were to travel around the Earth in one direction, you would end up in the same 3-dimensional place that you started from. [/quote]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jordan117 Even if you could catch up to the edge of the universe (impossible since it is expanding at FTL speed), there would be nothing to step into. The universe is a physical space. Even in the most remote regions between stars there is a three-dimensional empty space that objects can move in. But when that space ends, there's nothing to move to. There is no universe, there is no space, there is no physical reality. There's just nothing. And by nothing, I don't mean blackness, or vacuum, but literally nothing at all.[/quote] Which is physically impossible to comprehend. I have a rolidex of theories in my head.. its all too much to organize and pour out on here.. the only way i could is if someone gave me a specific point to elaborate on, or explain. [Edited on 9/25/2005]

If you want a migrane, try thinking of a 4d object. I read this thing in popular science that said scientists may be able to engineer the human eye to see colors never before imaginable. Try to imagine a color that isn't part of the existing spectrum.

Even if you could catch up to the edge of the universe (impossible since it is expanding at FTL speed), there would be nothing to step into. The universe is a physical space. Even in the most remote regions between stars there is a three-dimensional empty space that objects can move in. But when that space ends, there's nothing to move to. There is no universe, there is no space, there is no physical reality. There's just nothing. And by nothing, I don't mean blackness, or vacuum, but literally nothing at all.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jordan117 For all of you who have a hard time visualizing there being nothing outside the universe, picture this (don't move your head while doing this): everything within your field of vision is the universe. In the very center is the familiar space around Earth, where we can see everything clearly. But as you look further away from the center of your vision (Earth) and towards the limits of it (the edge of the universe) things become more obscure and you can't see clearly. Eventually your vision fades to darkness (the parts of the universe too far away to see). But beyond that darkness, beyond the edge of your vision (the edge of the universe) is nothing. It isn't black. It isn't white. It's just... nothing. Trying to look beyond the edge of the universe is like trying to look beyond your field of vision without moving your head. There's just nothing there...[/quote] Alright. Answer this then. Say we travel to edge of this defined space and then take one step beyond it. What do we experience? I realize this is simplistic because we are part of the universe so by going 'beyond' the defined space, we have actually just changed the defined space. So your have to make the mental jumps of removing yourself from the definaition of 'universe.' I'd also say in this case 'black' is an okay definition since black/dark is the lack of light so can be used to describe nothing.

The Halo universe.

I'm just feeling too lazy to post any of my thoughts on this right now. Although this kinda -blam!- is real interesting. I'm also feeling to lazy to read anyone else's posts [Edited on 9/25/2005]

That's a good explanation.

For all of you who have a hard time visualizing there being nothing outside the universe, picture this (don't move your head while doing this): everything within your field of vision is the universe. In the very center is the familiar space around Earth, where we can see everything clearly. But as you look further away from the center of your vision (Earth) and towards the limits of it (the edge of the universe) things become more obscure and you can't see clearly. Eventually your vision fades to darkness (the parts of the universe too far away to see). But beyond that darkness, beyond the edge of your vision (the edge of the universe) is nothing. It isn't black. It isn't white. It's just... nothing. Trying to look beyond the edge of the universe is like trying to look beyond your field of vision without moving your head. There's just nothing there...

I have been to the edge of the universe. They have free doughnuts. Courtesy of Atomic Wedgy.

Even more mysterious, Whats inside.... A BURRITO!!