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Edited by Cortana Five: 9/16/2014 11:45:21 PM
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THE NEW IP Bungie Formula:Durandal, Cortana, Joyeuse?

***Long friggin' post alert!*** [u]THIS IS A REVISED VERSION![/u] [quote][u]PLEASE FAVORITE THIS THREAD FOR FURTHER UPDATES![/u][/quote] The vast majority of my edits are due to [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715&postRepeater1-p=8#41730446]Ender's post here[/url] among others. I will cite him as much as possible in here. [quote]"My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durendal."[/quote] [b]Reader's Digest Version-ish[/b] This quote is the focus of my theory for a "formula" for Bungie trilogies. The quote above speaks of three famous swords that had once come together in battle. The three swords seem to correspond with two of the AIs from Marathon (Durandal) and Halo (Cortana). The third sword, Joyeuse, is the mystery AI and holder. If the first two swords can be proven to purposely correspond with the game characters, then perhaps Joyeuse and its holder (Charlemagne) is what the new IP's characters will be like. This theory also ties into several other theories. But in order to connect them while making sense, I must explain how and why the AIs and their swords correspond. As you read, keep [url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]Pfhorpedia[/url] handy if you're not in tune with the Marathon universe. While we're at it, [url=http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page]this[/url] and [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]this[/url] may come in handy. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE MARATHON TRILOGY YOURSELF: Download the games through [url=http://source.bungie.org/index.php?title=Get_Marathon]Aleph One[/url]. We'll be talking a lot of Marathon in here, my friends. So to set the mood: ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** Dear reader, This is going to be a huge post. A [i]good[/i] post, but a long one. I mean, this [i]will[/i] take several slots to cover. So, grab a nice cup of coffee and a pair of reading glasses or something that will keep you awake and in your chair. Until the coffee passes though. [b]I will also ask you to take this thing with a pinch of salt[/b]. I don't know if this is the truth in its entirety, and you probably don't either. Unless you're someone like Joe Staten or Jason Jones who's [i]really[/i] bored on a coffee break and stumbled upon this thing. Then, of course, you'd know if this is dumb speculation or not. Wishful thinking, right? [u]Please, please, please!!![/u] Give me feedback on this, tell me about anything you may dig up on this stuff, and if any of my facts/lore/spelling/[b]grammer[/b]/bad jokes/historical events are incorrect. ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY*** [quote]Durandal-Durendal (Endurance- True definition unknown)*[/quote] *The name probably comes from the French verb "durer", "to endure". [u]Sword Info:[/u] In The Song of Roland, the sword is said to contain within its golden hilt one tooth of Saint Peter, blood of Saint Basil, hair of Saint Denis, and a piece of the raiment of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In the poem, *[i]Roland attempts to break Durendal by smiting it against a marble block ten times. This proves fruitless. The myth of him creating La Brèche is merely a folktale of the land. It is not stated as such in La Chanson de Roland (The Song of Roland).[/i] According to Ludovico Ariosto's Orlando Furioso it once belonged to Hector of Troy, and was given to Roland by Maugris. *[i]Orlando Furioso is a work created centuries after La Chanson do Roland. In La Chanson, it is made clear that Charlemagne was given instructions by the angel Gabriel to let Roland wield Durendal.[/i] By Ender. In [i]Marathon[/i], Durandal [u]told the player[/u] that he did not want to suffer the same fate as Leela, so he asked to be destroyed.* The player finds out that Durandal was not actually destroyed, just as Roland couldn't destroy the sword. (Note that the fate of Leela turned out to be completely different and that Durandal didn't actually want to be destroyed. He was loopy and rampant.) *[i]Please note that Durandal's request to be destroyed was part of a plot of his own, and not an honest request and that Leela was not actually destroyed either.[/i] [b]Holders:[/b] Hector of Troy and Count Roland Note: [i]MRN54 [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/mjolnir.html]may or may not be you[/url].[/i] [u]Hector of Troy & Mjolnir Recon Number 54[/u] (Not the forum ninja) Hector was a Trojan prince and the greatest fighter of Troy in the Trojan War and the son of Priam and Hecuba, a descendant of Dardanus (son of Zeus and Electra). Because Hector was a descendant of several gods, he would in theory be a hybrid of sorts. The parallel here is that MRN54 [i]is[/i] a cyborg and a fighter. From Marathon.Bungie.Org: [quote] There are those references to your physical ability: [i]You slam your fist in frustration onto the control panel[/i](Manual page 2) Whether this is of significance or not depends largely on what material the control panel is made of. We have no information on this. [i]It's funny, but you've always been the colony's trouble shooter. You're bigger and stronger, and a better shot. In games, you always scored the most points and looked the hero. (Manual page 2)[/i] [/quote]. [quote] Alas! the gods have lured me on to my destruction. ... death is now indeed exceedingly near at hand and there is no way out of it- for so Zeus and his son Apollo the far-darter have willed it, though heretofore they have been ever ready to protect me.} My doom has come upon me; let me not then die ingloriously and without a struggle, but let me first do some great thing that shall be told among men hereafter." -Spoken by Hector facing Achilles, after a missed spear-throw, The Iliad Book XXII Lines 299-305.[/quote] This quote could represent the AIs in the trilogy toying and luring the player towards his destruction or towards their will. The AIs had protected the player for their plans, and in a sense, the player was doomed to what they had in store for him. [u]Count Roland & MRN54:[/u] The tale of Roland's death is retold in the eleventh century poem [i]The Song of Roland[/i], where he is equipped with an unbreakable sword, enchanted by various Christian relics, named Durendal. As said earlier, Roland couldn't break the sword, just as MRN54 couldn't break Durandal throughout the trilogy. Orlando Furiouso (among other works) includes Roland's battle with a Saracen giant named Ferracutus who is only vulnerable at his navel. The W'rkncacnter; a being(s) seemingly indestructible may have been a reference to Ferractus. The Sacren's navel may have been represented by activating a Jjaro station to trap the W'rkncacnter. [quote] [i]To stop the Pfhor from their folly and our demise, you must activate the ancient station that Yrro used eons ago to trap the W'rkncacnter. If we can activate it in time, it will crush the Pfhor fleet before we're all destroyed.[/i] *You Think You're Big Time? You're Gonna Die Big Time! (Terminal 1)*[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ender If we restrict our view to the first Marathon game, it is more likely that the Ferracutus analogy is to The Pfhor. They are larger in numbers, more technologically advanced, and ready to squash us. We, however, find that they rely heavily on the S'pht slaves they captured. Durandal instructs us to free them and we do so, allowing a rebellion to unfold, crushing the Pfhor attack.[/quote] At last, a confirmation (one of many) of the connection between Roland's sword and your well behaved AI (Yes, that was sarcasm): The first terminal on Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! relates the tale of Count Roland, who near death, attempts to break his sword to prevent it from being taken by the Saracens. [quote][i]Count Roland smites upon the marble stone; I cannot tell you how he hewed it and smote; Yet the blade breaks not nor splinters, though it groans; Upward to heaven it rebounds from the blow. When the count sees it never will be broke, Then to himself right softly he makes moan; 'Ah, Durandal, fair, hallowed, and devote, What store of relics lies in thy hilt of gold!' -From The Song of Roland (Translated by Dorothy Sayers, Viking Penguin, NY, NY, 1957)[/i] *Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! (Terminal 1)*[/quote] [u]Roland and Charlemagne references by Durandal:[/u] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/sphtkr.html#Feel%20the%20Noise]Feel the noise[/url] -[url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/roland.html]Roland[/url] By gathering this information, I can say with confidence that Durandal is [i]defiantly[/i] the spitting AI image of the sword Durendal, and that it's holders Roland and Hector are the inspiration for MRN54's situation involving the AIs in Marathon; specifically Durandal. ***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START*** ***TRANSPORT WHEN READY** [Edited on 02.12.2011 1:12 PM PST]

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  • What about the AI in ONI?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vadam930 I'm not sure...he has 3 posts, all in the Universe, all a link to Aerospace. Hmm... What is that language, anyway? Ugh, I fell so ignorant.[/quote] Latin. After some translating of his posts, I found out that they mean....well, they're just crazy ramblings. [Edited on 06.21.2010 8:50 AM PDT]

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  • [URL=http://bungieaerospace.com/]VOS ES NON SOLUS IGNARUS UNUS[/URL]

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  • I'm not sure...he has 3 posts, all in the Universe, all a link to Aerospace. Hmm... What is that language, anyway? Ugh, I fell so ignorant.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lozza [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Joyeuse 7 [URL=http://bungieaerospace.com/]IS UNUS EST CALLIDUS[/URL][/quote]I am not shewed, merely logical. Nice try, though. :) EGO sum non stultus.[/quote] I wonder if he is a bungie thing. Or probs some kid spamming [/quote]An actual ARG account would have a custom avatar or title bar. Anyways, back on topic. :)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Joyeuse 7 [URL=http://bungieaerospace.com/]IS UNUS EST CALLIDUS[/URL][/quote]I am not shewed, merely logical. Nice try, though. :) EGO sum non stultus.[/quote] I wonder if he is a bungie thing. Or probs some kid spamming

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Joyeuse 7 [URL=http://bungieaerospace.com/]IS UNUS EST CALLIDUS[/URL][/quote]I am not shewed, merely logical. Nice try, though. :) EGO sum non stultus. [Edited on 06.20.2010 11:56 AM PDT]

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  • [URL=http://bungieaerospace.com/]IS UNUS EST CALLIDUS[/URL]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 You never know, Bungie may throw a curve-ball that I never would have thought of![/quote] Knowing Bungie... XD

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vadam930 Wow, CortanaV, I find your superior mental capacity very attractive. =P But seriously, great post, I'm going to be extremely surprised if the next IP does not follow your theory. And, it's simply amazing to see how many references Bungie includes in their games! =O[/quote]Thank you! But I will warn you, don't put [i]all[/i] of your IP hopes and dreams into this theory. You never know, Bungie may throw a curve-ball that I never would have thought of!

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  • Wow, CortanaV, I find your superior mental capacity very attractive. =P But seriously, great post, I'm going to be extremely surprised if the next IP does not follow your theory. And, it's simply amazing to see how many references Bungie includes in their games! =O [Edited on 06.18.2010 4:19 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MaStAChIeF1684 I remember barely skimming over Charlemagne in AP history my Junior year of high school. This TOTALLY changes my mind about what it means to be a badass! My teacher never even mentioned the Song of Roland, I've only heard about it from my mother who is a French professor at St. Olaf. This thread not only shed light on Bungie's mysteriously powerful and inventive storytelling abilities, it also alluded me to the possibilities of their next IP. If they do indeed borrow from history (which they do in so many ways in Halo, and in some as you pointed out in Marathon) and write creative stories, I would hope that this theory is correct. Because it's probably one of the most legitimate theories I've ever seen. Good work![/quote]Why, thank you! I've seen a lot of people in this thread who have learned about Charlemagne in class and whatnot. Sadly, my school is tiny and we don't get a ton of global history. I'm really intent on doing some more in-depth studies on this stuff. :)

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  • I remember barely skimming over Charlemagne in AP history my Junior year of high school. This TOTALLY changes my mind about what it means to be a badass! My teacher never even mentioned the Song of Roland, I've only heard about it from my mother who is a French professor at St. Olaf. This thread not only shed light on Bungie's mysteriously powerful and inventive storytelling abilities, it also alluded me to the possibilities of their next IP. If they do indeed borrow from history (which they do in so many ways in Halo, and in some as you pointed out in Marathon) and write creative stories, I would hope that this theory is correct. Because it's probably one of the most legitimate theories I've ever seen. Good work!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Muzza777 Ok so I finnaly got arround to reading it and I was very impressed with it, me being a bit of the historian type person I enjoyed every bit of it. [/quote]Thank you! I really enjoy history, and it's cool to see the historian-types flock here.

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  • Cool, apparently I'm a Count and a hero. :) Anyways, I'll get back to you on this soon, I need to process all that info and re-read. Though I will say that those are very good connections made, and I think you are right about Bungie's new IP having a connection like you said. Off to school now...

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  • Ok so I finnaly got arround to reading it and I was very impressed with it, me being a bit of the historian type person I enjoyed every bit of it.

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  • wow, epic read. thanks for compiling all that info Angel

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  • I see your point about fans being able to figure this out though the use of mere research, but I disagree about "[i]any creative person having so much vision that we, the fans, could extract the old to get the new.[/i]" It's possible that such a vision wasn't part of the original plan, but through a history lesson or two and some research, such a vision could bloom like my OP did. Maybe I misread your post and we're totally on the same page. >.< And I'm totally fine with the possibility of a new IP that doesn't follow the sword lore. After all, Myth and Oni were released between Marathon and Halo, and (as far as I know) didn't follow the sword lore. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oddley765 While I agree the outline and fundamentals may be used as a base to forge a new IP universe or characters I just don't see any creative person having so much vision that we, the fans, could extract the old to get the new. Just my opinion. Afterall the new IP may not even have AI's and pull a Red Dead Redemption or Katamari story out of the Bungie creative ether. Nobody knows but it is fun guessing now isn't it?[/quote]

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  • While I agree the outline and fundamentals may be used as a base to forge a new IP universe or characters I just don't see any creative person having so much vision that we, the fans, could extract the old to get the new. Just my opinion. Afterall the new IP may not even have AI's and pull a Red Dead Redemption or Katamari story out of the Bungie creative ether. Nobody knows but it is fun guessing now isn't it? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 It's totally possible that Bungie simply chose Durandal and realized that the connection between Durandal, Cortana, and Joyeuse is one that would go well with creating games. As for the books and games outside the core trilogy, they are details that may have to be put aside in terms of the theorized storyline. Keep in mind that Marathon had only three games, and I don't think Halo was originally projected to go beyond the three core games. But I totally understand your concern here. It seems far-fetched to have three trilogies and a company laid out like that. On the other hand, if you know your history, anyone could pick up something like this and put it to good use. Think of it this way, as though it is (theoretically) in the mind of Bungie: "Okay, we have Marathon here following Durandal, but our next IP will follow the sword Cortana or Joyeuse. We're not sure what it'll specifically be about, where it will take place, but we know the base story arc will follow Cortana or Joyeuse. If Bungie is still around we'll use the remaining sword to forge the third IP." It's loosely used, but it does create deep lore and meaning to a game's storyline.[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oddley765 I just have to raise some simple logic here and ask why would you think previous IP could deduce future IP when the developer probably didn't or doesn't plan such things. Frankly I doubt the universe, company and future game development is that well laid out. After all books and games don't even gel well together.[/quote]Well, here lies the complication: It's totally possible that Bungie simply chose Durandal and realized that the connection between Durandal, Cortana, and Joyeuse is one that would go well with creating games. As for the books and games outside the core trilogy, they are details that may have to be put aside in terms of the theorized storyline. Keep in mind that Marathon had only three games, and I don't think Halo was originally projected to go beyond the three core games. But I totally understand your concern here. It seems far-fetched to have three trilogies and a company laid out like that. On the other hand, if you know your history, anyone could pick up something like this and put it to good use. Think of it this way, as though it is (theoretically) in the mind of Bungie: "Okay, we have Marathon here following Durandal, but our next IP will follow the sword Cortana or Joyeuse. We're not sure what it'll specifically be about, where it will take place, but we know the base story arc will follow Cortana or Joyeuse. If Bungie is still around we'll use the remaining sword to forge the third IP." It's loosely used, but it does create deep lore and meaning to a game's storyline.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oddley765 I just have to raise some simple logic here and ask why would you think previous IP could deduce future IP when the developer probably didn't or doesn't plan such things. Frankly I doubt the universe, company and future game development is that well laid out. After all books and games don't even gel well together.[/quote] To be honest it seems viable considering the past two IP's have been inspired by the same story. Their next IP will complete this parallel, so why stop now? Halo and Marathon very loosly based some of the key story arc on these old legends, I think, very much on purpose. The new IP could be based on anything, yet still be true to the story of Joyeuse due to the limitless varations of metaphors they can use to portray certain moments in Joyeuse's story. Basicly what I'm trying to say is that Bungie have used the story of Cortana and Durendal very loosley in their past IP's so it wont be a huge task using a few comparisons to Joyeuse's story in their new IP.

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  • I just have to raise some simple logic here and ask why would you think previous IP could deduce future IP when the developer probably didn't or doesn't plan such things. Frankly I doubt the universe, company and future game development is that well laid out. After all books and games don't even gel well together.

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  • Is it possible they will use Joyeuse and its holder as parallels in Reach? (Since Cortana wont be there), with your description it does sound like it changes with IP, but just throwing it out there anyway.

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  • The last post in this thread was a month ago. How the hell... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ExquisiteDragon [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] halomcee Who wrote this an AI? Wait...[/quote]Need you ask my friend. ^_^[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] halomcee Who wrote this an AI? Wait...[/quote]Need you ask my friend. ^_^

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] petarded2 Fantastic read! Thanks for such an awesome theory. I cannot help but notice more similarities between Charlemagne and the Arbiter. Particularly with Ogier only barely being prevented from killing Charlemagne and the two eventually teaming up, similar to how Master Chief nearly kills the Arbiter when they first meet (for potentially the same reason, as the Arbiter is a former member of the Covenant that killed his "kin"). Also, Charlemagne was King of the Franks; the rank of Fleet Master, which the Arbiter, or more accurately, Thel had seems a similar position (it certainly commands around the same amount of respect). It is likely that he became a prominent political figure after the events of the Halo trilogy, possibly even responsible for uniting the shattered remnants of the Covenant, just as Charlemagne united Europe. Which brings me to Charlemagne's sword, Joyeuse. The Arbiter carries a Covenant energy sword (which have carvings on their handles) and uses it to kill Truth, which could possibly tie into the beheading of Corsuble. Just my thoughts, please correct me if I missed somthing. [/quote]I've noticed that too. Perhaps the games can parallel this bit of IRL history within their own IPs. I'm sure there are different planes of lore to inspect here.

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