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Edited by Exarum:
2/7/2016 1:30:58 PM
49
Warlocks Are Fine
I have tried to compose a lists of all warlock pros and cons, as I have seen the forums explode with nerfs calls by people that are uneducated about the class. They want to rage here instead of do some research.
Warlocks melees: basic melee at 4 meters but when charged can go to 6 meters slowest follow up melee. Meaning in a two hit melee fight a titan and hunter can win. Bladedancer blinkstrike can reach same distance. And nighstalker and gunslinger have throwable melee so they have the furthest range in the game for melees.
Stormcaller: only super with a time to kill, average damage reduction at 50% same as bladedancer, sunbreaker, and sunsinger. Cannot heal from super kill as previous mentioned subclasses. Trancendace allows the super to last from the 17 second starting (same as bladedancer less than sunbreaker) to longest roaming in game. Again however it has a time to kill to componsate. No sprint and no boost to speed. Limited range. Gunslinger sunbreaker, nightstalker, voidwalker are have farther ranged supers that are instant kills. With amplitude can extend melee range a little farther if fully charged.
Sunsinger: no flashy instant kill super. Average armor at 50% though can be buffed to 55% with radiant skin but losses self revive. Self revive animation longer than average revive animation giving ample counter time. Burn grenades are good but require 3 perks given up to do so. (Firebolt over fusion, viking funeral over radiant will, touch of flame over gift of the sun) melee gives overshield that is weaker than defender overshield. Defender overshield has 75 bonus damage points a nd can be buffed with their class perks. Flame shield is the class perk and only gives 55 bonus damage points (but its also easier to get). Melee can ohk if in super.
Voidwalkers: lower than average armor 45% during super. Can heal with melee kill but has had 3 second cooldown since launch. Not much else to say people have more or less left voidwalker alone.
Edit: Its nice to see people actually debating the classes now instead of seeing ignorant rage nerf posts everywhere.
Edit 2: These are what some people have proposed to adjust warlocks to fix some issues people complain about at the same time avoiding a nerf to the class.
For the burning firebolt leave the damage alone but speed up the DoT of the burn, it still does the same amount of damage but gives opponents a better chance to hide and recover.
The big one, Stormcaller. Reduce the amount of extra time trancendance adds to your super (right now it goes from 17 sec to 26.) So instead of adding 9 seconds it adds 4 but make the base stormcaller last 19 or 20 seconds without trancendance. Also holding the lightning button down will drain your energy so you can't just spam it. Increased movment speed in super so ionic blink becomes a preferance not a necessity.
Lets hear your opinions on these as well.
Edit 3: Thank you for all the feedback you guys have given so far. Keep the ideas flowing guys. Next some more proposals people have brought forward that I feel should be debated as well. Flame shield to require a kill to activate but grants a stronger overshield on par with force barrier. Viking funeral instread of extending the burn time of touch of flame acts as melting point making targets hit take increased damage for a short time to make sunsinger closer to a support class.
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Warlocks are fine other than Landfall due to it instantly popping bubbles and the fact its basically a smaller FoH.
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14 RepliesEdited by Kone19ps: 2/3/2016 10:51:28 PMFlame shield on kills. Viking funeral to be made like melting point. storm caller is fine. Void walker I don't play enough to know if energy drain needs adjusting
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1 ReplyEdited by M3schk360: 2/4/2016 3:58:43 AMDon't worry the people that complain are just a bunch of hunters and titan who miss sunbreaker. I main a titan and think the same thing as you. But no matter how many cold hard facts you bring to the destiny community, most won't care
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2 RepliesAnother warlock main in panic mode?
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1 ReplyStormcallers isn't overpowered, everyone just sits there like a dumbass and gets fried.
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We are fine
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2 RepliesI storm called myself into a 47 kill 5k/d ratio in IB, I average 25 kills.. And a 2-3 k/d. Stormcaller is the most powerful super right now... And i'll use it till nerf, cause it wrecks entire teams and lets me walk into their spawn afterwards.
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2 RepliesEdited by EVIL VENOM: 2/2/2016 3:55:44 PMThe only way to fix these are by: The developers putting them side by side. I disagree with some of these but others are on the money. Opinions are good, but others don't like the freedom of opinions. "Opinions are like butt holes, they stink and everyone has them"
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11 RepliesEdited by Enderium: 2/2/2016 5:54:46 PMWarlocks get flame shield, which allows them to win ANY melee fight. Did I mention that they can get a melee boost from gauntlets? Forgot to mention storm callers improved melee has more range than a shotgun. Oh! And that the ttk on the super is miniscule. Shit, also forgot to mention that taking up 3 perks is nothing (2 of which count towards grenades), and radiant will only increases the super duration by 3.6ish seconds! Do I hear someone defending a bullshit class? Yes!? Hey folks we got a winner!
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3 RepliesEdited by EVIL VENOM: 2/2/2016 2:31:50 PMDon't explain facts, the Destiny community hates that!
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27 RepliesTo those who don't know.. Holding down the attack actually drains the super faster.. Also, if you guts actually think adding 4 seconds instead of 9 is a gold idea then thats very stupid.. It would defeat the purpose.. I say add time to the regular time it normally takes and just plain remove transcendence into something thats good but not op... Any suggestions? I was thinking cauterize but for storm caller with a 4 second cool down after every kill... Why? Because storm caller has barely any armor.. Everyone wants every other super they don't use to be nerfed but fail to understand that it affects pve too.. So you guys are screwing others too... Even the titans got nerfed so hard i rarely see people use them anymore... Instead of everyone wanting a nerf why dont we use buffs instead? all of you have no idea how to balance and many suggestions you guys talk about is because you all just came from a match where a PLAYER beat you... Remember people.. Its not a super that beat you.. Its the person behind the super that beat you.
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2 RepliesI'm just not ok with fire bolts and landfall. That's about it. Warlocks are ok other than that.
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3 RepliesTBH, I think class balance is the best I have seen since launch. Every class has a counter. The only problem is sometimes you get in a group that is class heavy against another that is class heavy with the right mix of counters....as an example. Say you have 4 warlock sparkplugs against 4 hunter bows...those bows will shut down those callers...but put in four panic titans against those same bows, and they will destroy them. Give and take. Balance is important, and bungie actually has class balance pretty good for pvp.
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12 RepliesEdited by Phnx y0: 2/1/2016 3:13:48 PMWarlocks are fine. Firebolts are not. Arcbolt gets nerfed to hell and Firebolt is literally the same thing but stays the same. Why do Arcbolts vary from 30-90 but Firebolts will deal 130-140 damage to anyone standing within twice the range of the Arcbolt. To even use Arcbolt, you have to use a chest piece from Y1. But the damage will still be crap. You will not kill someone by throwing two arcbolts, but you will always kill someone by throwing one Firebolt and shooting them With one burst/shot/spray of any weapon. And you don't even have to see someone to hit them with it. If Firebolts are matched with Arcbolts, it will be fine. Nothing wrong with warlock subclasses right now. I agree that Stromcaller lasts a little to long, but it is a super limited to range. Edit: As for Viking Funeral, if anything is done, reduce the damage of each tick so that its overall damage is matched to that of without it. The perk will make the burn last longer witch still keeps the target from regaining health, it just won't cause the target to only have 5 health left after the burn.
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1 ReplyIt's only that 50 foot Melee tbh
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8 RepliesNova bomb and Titan smash radius needs to be buffed. Titan smash should be bigger though
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5 RepliesOkay I'm a Hunter/Titan and I tried warlocks and they are Op compared to the other classes. The fact that you have a FoH and a full super to support it. Warlocks also have a grenade that can bring you down to a point where it only takes 1 bullet to kill you. I'm sorry but warlocks are op. Titans and Hunters are broken to a point beyond belief and half the time my shoulder charge and ark blade don't register hits. Meanwhile when I was on my warlock everything works fine and no problems. So warlocks are Op compared to other classes.
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2 RepliesYou realize that they actually have a faster follow up melee than hunters, right?
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9 RepliesIn [url=https://youtu.be/rT5quf7M9C0?t=2m25s]this[/url] video by fallout plays, (most of the video is outdated, but the melee fights would be exactly the same except for the striker) it is demonstrated that scorch beats all other melees in a 1v1 situation, except for a knife headshot and if it is actually slower, I can't tell. The awful melee hit detection will guarantee a trade in the least anyway. The problem that most people have with warlocks, (sunsingers especially) is that their neutral game is so strong that it can compensate for skill in some cases. If you're out of position and get rushed, get a flame shield and survive a shotgun blast, or melee them with more range than their gun has as a stormcaller. If you have a vague idea where the enemy is, throw a firebolt or a storm grenade and if you get a tag, it's an easy follow up. Or if the enemy is low armour, storm grenade can one shot over a really large area. The other one hit kill grenades (incendiary) need to be placed right at your feet to kill. Voidwalkers are OK ever since blink shotgun was nerfed, but health regen on every melee hit with the ram along with the increased armour is a little concerning. As supers go, Nova bomb is perfectly fine and Stormtrance lasts too long, for the tradeoff (if transcendence used up the grenade and melee and was 3 seconds shorter it would be a fair pay off)but that's it. Radiance on the other hand is a big problem in the meta for trials of osiris. Every other game mode, and self res is a non issue, but in elimination it's overcentralising. The ability to just deny your death and revive your team mates insanely quickly with fast res exotics isn't balanced. It can turn a 1v1 that your team already lost into a 3v1 with overshields, 1 hit melees and loads of grenades in about 6 seconds, and you shouldn't be rewarded for losing. It can also prevent draws from happening and literally takes no skill to do so. Other supers can win games just as easily, but the enemy knows they messed up when all 3 get killed by a single FoH or something. Having potential victory stolen by somebody who was already dead just leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth. I would say that my main problem with warlocks is that their abilities are so good, that they train players to be worse at the game in some regards. For example, if i go into the crucible with a sniper and a scout rifle as a hunter, if I get rushed I'm either dead or need to rely on a backstab proc that is basically RNG with the melee hit detection. I've also seen far more warlocks throw grenades during gunfights (not before or after, during) because their grenades are so strong. You can exploit this tendency to use abilities too. If you get up close to a warlock aiming for a double melee, 9 times out of 10 they will melee you even if they're holding a shotgun. And I'm talking about low skill warlocks. Recently, as matches were made to be a lot closer, the warlocks are actually good now, and the same tools that were carrying scrubs are just ridiculous in skilled hands. You are almost guaranteed to lose in a 1v1 situation that involves abilities. Also, in a game where effective health is based on regeneration, obviously there is going to be problems with the class that has the fastest health regen. The difference between my hunter and my warlock is like heaven and earth. With the hunter I could be sat behind cover for 3-4 seconds waiting for regen to even begin. With a warlock, you can basically run past cover to regen. With all the weapon nerfs and the overall rise of ttk, warlocks are going to reach the point that they can just outheal crucible damage! But seriously, I've found that even though warlocks are fine on paper, they have so many slight advantages that push them over the edge in most situations, something has to give. In a crucible where Strikers were buffed to competition, No backup plans were made good, arcbolts were destroyed and Symbiote got nerfed into the ground, warlocks need some attention.
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2 RepliesEdited by Acadech: 2/1/2016 3:51:42 PMIm fine with all classes atm but if i would need to say some adjustment, it would be stormcallers super time decreased on 2-3sec (from trancendance) and make ionic blink reduce ur time in super when used (more than atm).
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3 RepliesEdited by Kirby235711: 2/1/2016 3:44:51 AMWhy is it that no one talks about balance for PvE? I don't want the bladedancer to happen all over again. Also, don't forget that different supers have different cooldown times. Not many people know about that. Ward of Dawn, Shadowshot, and Radiance- 5:00, 4:46, 4:31, 4:15, 3:58, 3:40 All Other Supers- 5:30, 5:14, 4:57, 4:39, 4:20, 4:00 I'm not sure what the cooldowns are at max intellect though. If anyone could check, that would be great.
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[quote]I have tried to compose a lists of all warlock pros and cons, as I have seen the forums explode with nerfs calls by people that are uneducated about the class. They want to rage here instead of do some research. Warlocks melees: have longest basic melee in the game at 6 meters but slowest follow up melee. Meaning in a two hit melee fight a titan and hunter can win. Bladedancer blinkstrike can reach same distance. And nighstalker and gunslinger have throwable melee so they have the furthest range in the game for melees. Stormcaller: only super with a time to kill, average damage reduction at 50% same as bladedancer, sunbreaker, and sunsinger. Cannot heal from super kill as previous mentioned subclasses. Trancendace allows the super to last from the 17 second starting (same as bladedancer less than sunbreaker) to longest roaming in game. Again however it has a time to kill to componsate. No sprint and no boost to speed. Limited range. Gunslinger sunbreaker, nightstalker, voidwalker are have farther ranged supers that are instant kills. With amplitude can extend melee range a little farther if fully charged. Sunsinger: no flashy instant kill super. Average armor at 50% though can be buffed to 55% with radiant skin but losses self revive. Self revive animation longer than average revive animation giving ample counter time. Burn grenades are good but require 3 perks given up to do so. (Firebolt over fusion, viking funeral over radiant will, touch of flame over gift of the sun) melee gives overshield that is weaker than defender overshield (but its also easier to get) melee can ohk if in super. Voidwalkers: lower than average armor 45% during super. Can heal with melee kill but has had 3 second cooldown since launch. Not much else to say people have more or less left voidwalker alone. Edit: Its nice to see people actually debating the classes now instead of seeing ignorant rage nerf posts everywhere. Edit 2: These are what some people have proposed to adjust warlocks to fix some issues people complain about at the same time avoiding a nerf to the class. For the burning firebolt leave the damage alone but speed up the DoT of the burn, it still does the same amount of damage but gives opponents a better chance to hide and recover. The big one, Stormcaller. Reduce the amount of extra time trancendance adds to your super (right now it goes from 17 sec to 26.) So instead of adding 9 seconds it adds 4 but make the base stormcaller last 19 or 20 seconds without trancendance. Also holding the lightning button down will drain your energy so you can't just spam it. Increased movment speed in super so ionic blink becomes a preferance not a necessity. Lets hear your opinions on these as well.[/quote] Thankfully someone gets it. Everyone shouting warlocks are OP should be silenced.
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1 ReplyNice to see no one crying nerf for once. Not to mention storm callers grenades are lacking in power compared to a lot of other classes and not just other warlock subclasses.
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1 ReplyI say there all balanced minus: Blade dancer needs hit detection buff Voidwalker needs super damage buff
