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originally posted in:Collective Of Knowledge
originally posted in: Esoteric Lore Questions
Edited by RockNRollTrouble: 1/11/2016 5:04:36 PM
6
I can explain question 8 Its like turning two radio's that are sitting beside eachother up full. Oryx kills savathun and becomes a cunning strategist. Killing her twice wouldnt mean he was twice as cunning, in the same way two radios wouldnt generate twice the volume. Theres also a paradox in doing so, if quria kills 100 hive, then goes back in time and kills the same 100 hive he is stealing the kills from himself
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  • Actually I think you're confusing sword logic and killing logic. Killing logic is about proving that you were better than someone all along by killing them, and that's different from sword logic. You can kill someone over and over and get stronger from it because of sword logic. Oryx and his sisters did this to each other for 20,000 years. [quote]SAVATHÛN said, Auryx my brother and king, I have studied the wounds cut by the Worm our God. Also I have studied the manner of your death and return. These two things are the same, for they are predicated on death and the passage through cut spaces. Let us practice the sword logic until we are sharp. We may then cut our own wounds and step through. (Verse 3:1 — an incision)[/quote] [quote]For twenty thousand years they fought across the moons and they fought in the abyssal plains and lightning palaces of each other's sword spaces. And they killed each other again and again, so that they could practice death. (Verse 3:2 — The High War)[/quote] After all that killing of each other, Oryx still gains sword logic when he kills them. [quote]Said Akka, “You have not the strength.” But this was a lie. Auryx had killed Savathûn his sibling and Xivu Arath his sibling, and he had the sword logic of killing them. Auryx the First Navigator set upon his god with his sword and his words, and cut Akka to pieces, and took from those pieces the secret of calling upon the Deep. (Verse 3:8 — King of Shapes)[/quote]

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  • Edited by moka: 1/14/2016 12:57:00 AM
    He has a point it becomes a paradox it's true Oryx and his siblings killed each other for thousands of years but never by going back in time, when Quria kills the 100 hive and then goes back in time to kill those same hundred hive it's not like he's killed 200 hive he's still killing the same hundred hive. And his sword logic would never grow because he keeps going back to a time before he had killed the hundred so his logic would have yet to grow get it?

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  • Sword logic does not care if it's the same 100 hive or not. If you eat dinner, travel back in time and eat the same dinner again, you will be twice as full—the food won't magically vanish from your stomach. From the perspective of someone in the regular flow of time, Quria only appears to kill 100, but from Quria's perspective, he is killing 200, 300, or as many as it wants. As for paradoxes, I covered this in another comment. I normally would agree that it would be a paradox because if Quria kills 100, goes back in time to kill another 100 to make it a total of 200, then because Quria stealing from a past version of itself, and it would have never got the original 100 kills to then reach 200. Destiny's time travel rules bypass it though. Time travel in Destiny seems to follow the branching timelines view of time travel. There are multiple references to different timelines, and Dr. Shim and his group think the Vex Citadel might be from a different timeline, and at first they thought that time is unchangeable and self-consistent, but then came to believe this view of time was incomplete at best (Ghost Fragment: Vex 4-5). The thing about the multiple timelines view is that it avoids paradoxes by having the effects of time travel branch into a different universes or timelines, so while time may be immutable in the original timeline, the time traveler can change things from their perspective through the branching effect. Of course for this to work with Quria, must appear to exit the original timeline to do each killing loop in another timeline, and then return to the original.

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  • I get you. However Oryx's taken power seems to not be restricted by time, also Quria can kill as many hive as it wants but it would have to kill the equivalent of thousands of years worth to match up with Oryx and even then Oryx can just take Quria before it gets any stronger. Which he ended up doing.

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  • He could keep killing stronger and more things in each loop, but I don't think spending a long long time doing repetitive action would be a problem for the Vex :p I'm curious about your comment on Taking not being restricted by time. How did you reach that conclusion? I've never heard or seen anything suggesting the power can take beings from the past of future; the only time I could say is happened was when Oryx took the whole Vault of Glass, and conquered the Vex in the future long after he is dead, but that was due to the power of the Vault.

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  • Consider me schooled haha. Thank you for pointing out the distinction, thats very informative. I enjoy your posts, you really know your stuff. Keep at it

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