Shoulder Charge is not working properly I know that. And Cauterize has a timer because it works on all kills by fire. This is melee, grenades, Sunspot, and Hammers. Hungering Blade and Transfusion are only on melees. So please shove it. I am not saying play this way. I am just saying there are other ways to play. I don't think so many changes were needed, but most were good ones

[quote]Blah blah, I'm an asshat. [/quote] There, I fixed it.

Ah yes another person with no argument. Frankly, I donmt care what you think of me, but I do laugh that all Solbro mains just complain that their subclass is useless and titans are ass now. Just shows how bad they all are

...said the Hunter main. I already made my argument. You then proceeded to agree with it, then say that I'm wrong. By all means, explain how [i]that[/i] makes any sense. The simple fact is, several abilities aren't working as they should, and some of the nerfs affected the core mechanics of HoS so excessively that it's now nearly useless. Hammer velocity is so low now that a sloth could dodge it. OHK by GG? How is that remotely balanced? Regen timer? When BD can just regen for days? Funny how that works. Your little "builds" can't do anything to fix these fundamental issues. I know how to build a class, thank you. I know Titans a whole hell of a lot better than you. This is just an ego trip for you, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to play along.

[quote]...said the Hunter main. I already made my argument. You then proceeded to agree with it, then say that I'm wrong. By all means, explain how [i]that[/i] makes any sense.[/quote] Don't start the "" main argument. Yes I main a Hunter. Would you like my opinions of Bladedancer Y1? I'll tell you something similar as to I did about Sunbreakers pre-patch. [quote]The simple fact is, several abilities aren't working as they should, and some of the nerfs affected the core mechanics of HoS so excessively that it's now nearly useless. Hammer velocity is so low now that a sloth could dodge it. OHK by GG? How is that remotely balanced? Regen timer? When BD can just regen for days? Funny how that works. [/quote] "Several abilities aren't working as they should..." Have you tried Angry Magic on Voidwalkers? Flameseeker tracks just as well as Angry Magic. You can't say you expected Truth or Taikonaut level tracking right? Second, [b]HAMMER OF SOL IS NOT THE ENTIRE SUBCLASS[/b]. Okay now that I got that out of my system, I will say I don't believe Hammers needed a drop in velocity, they just should not exceed the speed of a Nova Bomb (which you can dodge as well). Thirdly, Golden Gun is able to shut down [b]every other roaming super in the game[/b]. Why should HoS be excluded from this? Radiance, ArcBlade, and Stormcaller each get armor buff, but are stopped by the pure offensive super in the game, Golden Gun. HoS should naturally be stopped as well. (Wow I'm tired of explaining this next one...) Cauterize actives on kills [b]by your fire[/b]. This includes Sunstrike, grenades, Sunspots (if anyone uses them), and Hammers. Given that Hungering Blade and Transfusion (Bladedancers and Strikers, respectively) can only activate their regen through melees (Blink Strike, Storm Grip, Arc Blade, Shoulder Charge), it is only fair Cauterize, with more possibilities, has some timer. [quote]Your little "builds" can't do anything to fix these fundamental issues. I know how to build a class, thank you. I know Titans a whole hell of a lot better than you. This is just an ego trip for you, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to play along.[/quote] The fundamental issue is that all Sunbreakers played a single style and that style was too strong. Fun fact: nearly all Bladedancers in Y1 played a single style and that go nerfed (and broken) in Y2. This is not an ego trip for me, I am not a Titan trying to prove "we are still godmode!" I am a player, who plays all 3 classes, that is trying to explain this: some things needed a nerf, some things did not, but the neither the super is [b]the entire subclass[/b] nor is there only one singular way to play Sunbreakers. But please keep saying it's an ego trip for me since, again, you have no argument against mine accept "I can't spam hammers."

HoS [i]is[/i] the entire subclass. Flame seeker was inferior to angry magic before the nerf. It barely altered the course of the hammer. A nerf was unnecessary, and 25% was excessive. GG only OHKs 33% of the supers in the game. Stormtrance can survive a hit, so I'd say that entire argument is invalid. Not everyone used the same build before the nerf. Some ran sunspots. Some ran simmering flames. I prefer stoke the forge over the other melee perks. Again, you act like you know anything, when in fact you don't have a clue. You through? I'm getting tired of hearing your gums flap.

[quote]HoS [i]is[/i] the entire subclass.[/quote] Yup right where you argument failed. But I will indulge... [quote]Flame seeker was inferior to angry magic before the nerf. It barely altered the course of the hammer. A nerf was unnecessary, and 25% was excessive.[/quote] I would say it was pretty equal to Angry Magic before, having played Solbro to max it out in Crucible. It made enough of a difference with Explosive Pyre/Immolation Fist to be a problem. Hammer veers the direction it need to and hit radius cleaned up. Again, velocity beingn slowed was dumb on Bungie's part, but the tracking needed adjusting (as well as radius of explosion =0) [quote]GG only OHKs 33% of the supers in the game. Stormtrance can survive a hit, so I'd say that entire argument is invalid. [/quote] Okay you must play Hunter less than Titans. Gunslingers OHKO all roaming* supers. Defender bubbles are popped in 2 shots, which should be the only time GG needs two shots to counter a super. [quote]Not everyone used the same build before the nerf. Some ran sunspots. Some ran simmering flames. I prefer stoke the forge over the other melee perks. Again, you act like you know anything, when in fact you don't have a clue.[/quote] Most people all ran the Spam Hammer build of Forgemaster + Flameseeker + Immolation Fist + Cauterize. Lol don't even tell me people used anything on that last tier that wasn't Cauterize. And I think you meant "you act like you know everything*", but I could be mistaken. [quote]You through? I'm getting tired of hearing your gums flap.[/quote] Are you done trying to play the victim? Like I told someone else on this thread, I am not saying Sunbreakers weren't hit. I am not saying things are perfect. I am saying there is more to a subclass than just the super and that one build. Any argument you are trying to make is essentially saying "giving me back my build" because you don't even want to think about Sunbreakers using anything but in PvP. But yes, with you at least I am done. No point trying to talk with someone who is just shouting. At least the other guy actually said something more than "HoS [i]is[/i] the entire subclass......give it back!"

By all means, tell me what sunbreakers have other than the super. This should be good. Oh, and GG should OHK everything, should it? That just stinks of Hunter main. But it [i]doesn't[/i] OHK everything, and it shouldn't OHK a Titan with max armor during a super. The mere fact that you claim flameseeker actually granted any significant tracking is laughable.

[quote]By all means, tell me what sunbreakers have other than the super. This should be good.[/quote] I'm not retyping my entire first post lol. Just look at the OP. [quote]Oh, and GG should OHK everything, should it? That just stinks of Hunter main. But it [i]doesn't[/i] OHK everything, and it shouldn't OHK a Titan with max armor during a super. [/quote] Lol this is not me being some Huntermasterrace guy this is me expressing balance. The one purely offensive subclass, with no defensive capabilities at all, should take out other supers. I'd say the same thing if Strikers or Voidwalker didn't have defensive capabilities/invincibility frames either. [quote]The mere fact that you claim flameseeker actually granted any significant tracking is laughable.[/quote] Okay let me say then, I can bet 3 things: 1) most players could not have noticed tracking because the radius of hammer explosion, 2) most players specc'd into Flameseeker for the recovery & agility bonuses, 3) titans aren't complained that the perk got nerfed although most never paided the actually curvatures any mind. The tracking was there. It was about as much as Angry Magic is for Nova Bomb. You can't actually tell me that having some side-to-side motion with the explosions it granted were not a powerful combo. But you know what I have an idea to end our discussion. How did you see Sunbreakers pre-patch? If you thought the subclass [b]as a whole[/b] needed any changes, please express them. After that I think we can go our separate ways and agree to disagree.

Sunbreakers didn't need any changes. I accepted the fact that DR would get nerfed, but everything was fine as it was. It was a weak subclass that was balanced by its super. There is nothing in the entire sunbreaker subclass that does not relate directly to the super. You could make an argument for cauterize, but ability kills outside of the super are few and far between, and it really doesn't come in clutch that often. And you seriously believe that GG should be able to shit down all supers? Do you have the slightest clue how OP that would make it? It's also not the only offensive super. In fact, the only supers that [i]aren't[/i] purely offensive are radiance, WoD, and shadowshot. I'm sorry, kiddo, but you're grossly deluded.

Yeah I am agreeing to disagree after you said Sunbreakers were completely fine. You could've just said that hours ago and I would've stopped trying to debate with you. Completely opposite opinions on a FACT that Sunbreakers were too strong and needed changes, maybe not all the ones they got, but more than just DR. [spoiler]You simply want your subclass to be OP again. Also if you need your super to be good with a subclass, you are bad. [/spoiler]

Seems you're confused about facts and opinions. I'm sorry you're such an idiot, but that's your own fault.

Wait so Sunbreakers were not the most powerful subclass in pvp? That's a titancentric opinion

Lol, not even close. Once again, you seem to be confused between subclasses and supers. You could just admit that you don't get it, but given that your ego is the size of the Hindenburg, that's not going to happen.

[quote]Lol, not even close. Once again, you seem to be confused between subclasses and supers.[/quote] [quote]HoS [i]is[/i] the entire subclass.[/quote] Yeah I am confused lol. But again, I'm tired of this debate of ours. I saw one thing, you say "idiot", I say another, you say "idiot" again. You really have said nothing more than "Bungie didn't need to nerf it so hard" (which I agree to a point) and "give me back my overpowered spam hammer build" to which I have said "there is more out there than just a hammer." Night kinderguardian