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8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
490
Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection.
Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners.
Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy?
First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this -
Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed.
Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!"
But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners.
Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost.
In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this.
[quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote]
Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe?
I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners.
However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity.
I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors.
In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact.
[quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote]
Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors?
It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion.
[quote][/quote]
[b]Update 1.2[/b]
(I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.)
Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system.
Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld.
Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it.
Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners.
Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had?
I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction?
My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo.
And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor?
Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond.
[b]Update 2.0[/b]
Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory.
The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins.
Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says:
[quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote]
As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not.
Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor.
Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins.
Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor.
Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals.
[b]In other words: [/b]
- Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i]
- Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event.
- Halo is fired by Forerunners.
- Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth.
- Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way.
- ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!"
- Because they aren't. They're Precursor.
[b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url]
[Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors.[/quote] Exactly. The gravemind seems to be pissed of at the forerunner for this very reason (other than the fact there tasty). He tells MB that they are arrogant and where stopping nature and a whole bunch of that. The precursors in there infinite wisdom would become arrogant and believe to be all powerful. Playing god. This was there sin. Wow that gave me an idea. If that was there sin. And snaky is correct (at least for the most part) and the precursor did create the flood. Well think of it this way. Someone who is mentally unstable usually has a child hood experience. The flood can be seen as an unnatural monster. Created by those who believed themselves to be gods. Is it possible that the gravemind new he himself was beast that could never belong in this universe? Coexist with all other life? Could this have been there sin? The creation of flood, himself? In rampancy he knew he could never "fit in". The precursor brought him into a tortures existence. For this he punished them, seeking revenge. His rampancy grew further, in his need to feel like he belonged he sought to consume all life that was not himself. Create an entire universe comprised of himself. Like a frightened child he would begin constructing lies to-justify what he has done, to create a reason for his existence, to try and absolve himself of his sins. And he would begin to believe his own lies. "The next stage of evolution" If this is correct, it brings a whole new light onto the flood. No longer an all consuming thing. But more of a frankenstein if you will. Cursed by his own existence, never being able to truly be apart of this world. [/quote] Perhaps. I doubt the Gravemind chose it's own existance as he questions -in halo 3- if he should take life or give it. He wonders who the victim is and who the real foe is.[/quote] Thats a brilliant observation. I always thought he was asking the chief that. But what if he was at the same time talking to himself. Did he take life or give it as he believed for so long. He slowly brainwashed himself to make it feel like he was dong the right thing. But in fact he is the victim. This conclusion just gave me a huge idea of a future halo plot (please read halo 4, in plain sight). What if the chief needs to discover the origin of the flood? Understand how and why it was created. He would then along with cortana understand that the gravemind is actually in [i] pain[/i]. Something to be pitied rather than feared. Then the master chief in a moment of self sacrifice does what no one would expect. He powers down his shield and lets himself become one with the gravemind. His thoughts would become one with him, and an emotion that has longed laid dormant inside the Gravemind awakens. For untold millennia he had ben crazed with anger and pain. But now with the master chiefs sacrifice, he absorbed his thoughts and realized what he has done. He was brought into an unnatural existence. But now he understood that he was the [i] victim [/i]. That he masked his own sorrow with retribution and revenge, In an act to prove himself... to whom? He punished a sin with a sin, but all he had done was cause more pain, more death. He now finally understands he will never belong, not in this universe or an other. And the outer arms of the flood seemingly stop. Losing the will to grow and consume. It withers and dies as if by a plague. It all collapses and what few parts of the gravemind remain escapes this galaxy via ship. Cursed to journey the vast reaches of space for what he can never have.... OK, I might have gotten a little ahead of myself there. I always think there is a deep meaning in something. But In the 5 seconds i pulled that out of my head I thought it would be a fitting end. [/quote] I think we've found our Halo 4 crew. That's a brilliant idea and it would be more of a story of conflict than anything else. As the key to stopping your enemy is to understand your enemy. One thing I will say, though, is that it's a very "Star Wars"-y style of end. [Edited on 08.30.2009 10:36 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude Although this is not evidence, it's just an observation, but it does make sense if you ask me. It seems humanity evolved technologicaly quicker then any other species without the help of anything, or any other race. Lets assume that the Prophets and Elites were the only species far ahead enough to observe the activation of the Halo rings, meaning that they would be late Tier 7 at the earliest, seeing as how they both found salvation in the Forerunner artifacts, meaning that there species was around, or they found a library somewhere detailing the Forerunners, and they were somehow able to decipher the transcripts. But ignoring option number 2 lets go ahead with 1. If they were both about to go into tier 6 that means in thousands of years when they had the war between them, they were both only Tier 3 and like I said it took thousands of years for them to get to that stage. While in about 1000 years, Humanity started exploring and discovering eachother in the 14/1500's, and in 1000 years they had advanced all the way to tier 3, by themselves, with NO HELP from anything, meaning that they were technology wizards, or they have had some experience with it in the distant past to know how to excellerate it, and use it. Keep in mind for the most part this is purely speculation, and the only shreds of evidence I have, is the duration between the Age of Abandonment, and Age of Conflict, and how long it took Humanity to get from Tier 7 to 3[/quote] It is very possible that having relation to the Forerunners had something to dow ith it, as in [i]Ghosts of Onyx[/i], Kurt comments on how the Forerunner Glyphs look frustratingly familiar but can't think of when he thinks he's seen them before.[/quote] This is explained by Human/Forerunner cross breeding. Or perhaps the forerunner adopted the precursor symbols as there own, much n the same way the covenant did from the forerunner. This explains why Spartans and most humans seem to find theme so familiar, like from an old dream..... but you cant exactly remember.... (look at bungie universe banner) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors.[/quote] Exactly. The gravemind seems to be pissed of at the forerunner for this very reason (other than the fact there tasty). He tells MB that they are arrogant and where stopping nature and a whole bunch of that. The precursors in there infinite wisdom would become arrogant and believe to be all powerful. Playing god. This was there sin. Wow that gave me an idea. If that was there sin. And snaky is correct (at least for the most part) and the precursor did create the flood. Well think of it this way. Someone who is mentally unstable usually has a child hood experience. The flood can be seen as an unnatural monster. Created by those who believed themselves to be gods. Is it possible that the gravemind new he himself was beast that could never belong in this universe? Coexist with all other life? Could this have been there sin? The creation of flood, himself? In rampancy he knew he could never "fit in". The precursor brought him into a tortures existence. For this he punished them, seeking revenge. His rampancy grew further, in his need to feel like he belonged he sought to consume all life that was not himself. Create an entire universe comprised of himself. Like a frightened child he would begin constructing lies to-justify what he has done, to create a reason for his existence, to try and absolve himself of his sins. And he would begin to believe his own lies. "The next stage of evolution" If this is correct, it brings a whole new light onto the flood. No longer an all consuming thing. But more of a frankenstein if you will. Cursed by his own existence, never being able to truly be apart of this world. [/quote] Perhaps. I doubt the Gravemind chose it's own existance as he questions -in halo 3- if he should take life or give it. He wonders who the victim is and who the real foe is.[/quote] Thats a brilliant observation. I always thought he was asking the chief that. But what if he was at the same time talking to himself. Did he take life or give it as he believed for so long. He slowly brainwashed himself to make it feel like he was dong the right thing. But in fact he is the victim. This conclusion just gave me a huge idea of a future halo plot (please read halo 4, in plain sight). What if the chief needs to discover the origin of the flood? Understand how and why it was created. He would then along with cortana understand that the gravemind is actually in [i] pain[/i]. Something to be pitied rather than feared. Then the master chief in a moment of self sacrifice does what no one would expect. He powers down his shield and lets himself become one with the gravemind. His thoughts would become one with him, and an emotion that has longed laid dormant inside the Gravemind awakens. For untold millennia he had ben crazed with anger and pain. But now with the master chiefs sacrifice, he absorbed his thoughts and realized what he has done. He was brought into an unnatural existence. But now he understood that he was the [i] victim [/i]. That he masked his own sorrow with retribution and revenge, In an act to prove himself... to whom? He punished a sin with a sin, but all he had done was cause more pain, more death. He now finally understands he will never belong, not in this universe or an other. And the outer arms of the flood seemingly stop. Losing the will to grow and consume. It withers and dies as if by a plague. It all collapses and what few parts of the gravemind remain escapes this galaxy via ship. Cursed to journey the vast reaches of space for what he can never have.... OK, I might have gotten a little ahead of myself there. I always think there is a deep meaning in something. But In the 5 seconds i pulled that out of my head I thought it would be a fitting end.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude Although this is not evidence, it's just an observation, but it does make sense if you ask me. It seems humanity evolved technologicaly quicker then any other species without the help of anything, or any other race. Lets assume that the Prophets and Elites were the only species far ahead enough to observe the activation of the Halo rings, meaning that they would be late Tier 7 at the earliest, seeing as how they both found salvation in the Forerunner artifacts, meaning that there species was around, or they found a library somewhere detailing the Forerunners, and they were somehow able to decipher the transcripts. But ignoring option number 2 lets go ahead with 1. If they were both about to go into tier 6 that means in thousands of years when they had the war between them, they were both only Tier 3 and like I said it took thousands of years for them to get to that stage. While in about 1000 years, Humanity started exploring and discovering eachother in the 14/1500's, and in 1000 years they had advanced all the way to tier 3, by themselves, with NO HELP from anything, meaning that they were technology wizards, or they have had some experience with it in the distant past to know how to excellerate it, and use it. Keep in mind for the most part this is purely speculation, and the only shreds of evidence I have, is the duration between the Age of Abandonment, and Age of Conflict, and how long it took Humanity to get from Tier 7 to 3[/quote] It is very possible that having relation to the Forerunners had something to dow ith it, as in [i]Ghosts of Onyx[/i], Kurt comments on how the Forerunner Glyphs look frustratingly familiar but can't think of when he thinks he's seen them before.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors.[/quote] Exactly. The gravemind seems to be pissed of at the forerunner for this very reason (other than the fact there tasty). He tells MB that they are arrogant and where stopping nature and a whole bunch of that. The precursors in there infinite wisdom would become arrogant and believe to be all powerful. Playing god. This was there sin. Wow that gave me an idea. If that was there sin. And snaky is correct (at least for the most part) and the precursor did create the flood. Well think of it this way. Someone who is mentally unstable usually has a child hood experience. The flood can be seen as an unnatural monster. Created by those who believed themselves to be gods. Is it possible that the gravemind new he himself was beast that could never belong in this universe? Coexist with all other life? Could this have been there sin? The creation of flood, himself? In rampancy he knew he could never "fit in". The precursor brought him into a tortures existence. For this he punished them, seeking revenge. His rampancy grew further, in his need to feel like he belonged he sought to consume all life that was not himself. Create an entire universe comprised of himself. Like a frightened child he would begin constructing lies to-justify what he has done, to create a reason for his existence, to try and absolve himself of his sins. And he would begin to believe his own lies. "The next stage of evolution" If this is correct, it brings a whole new light onto the flood. No longer an all consuming thing. But more of a frankenstein if you will. Cursed by his own existence, never being able to truly be apart of this world. [/quote] That was brilliant, and the Flood being in another Galaxy is also explained by the fact that the Precursors could travel across Galaxies.
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Although this is not evidence, it's just an observation, but it does make sense if you ask me. It seems humanity evolved technologicaly quicker then any other species without the help of anything, or any other race. Lets assume that the Prophets and Elites were the only species far ahead enough to observe the activation of the Halo rings, meaning that they would be late Tier 7 at the earliest, seeing as how they both found salvation in the Forerunner artifacts, meaning that there species was around, or they found a library somewhere detailing the Forerunners, and they were somehow able to decipher the transcripts. But ignoring option number 2 lets go ahead with 1. If they were both about to go into tier 6 that means in thousands of years when they had the war between them, they were both only Tier 3 and like I said it took thousands of years for them to get to that stage. While in about 1000 years, Humanity started exploring and discovering eachother in the 14/1500's, and in 1000 years they had advanced all the way to tier 3, by themselves, with NO HELP from anything, meaning that they were technology wizards, or they have had some experience with it in the distant past to know how to excellerate it, and use it. Keep in mind for the most part this is purely speculation, and the only shreds of evidence I have, is the duration between the Age of Abandonment, and Age of Conflict, and how long it took Humanity to get from Tier 7 to 3
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Which Terminal is that image in? I think I have an idea...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [url=http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/f01.jpg]Well, it's here,[/url] but why would I put it in the OP? It doesn't seem to fit in with the theory, all it shows is that the Forerunners possibly looked like us.[/quote] To me, that looks like the outline of a person encased in a wall of feathers...[/quote] Exactly. In that terminal there talking about forerunners and combat skins (more like a tank). As you can see there is a physical resemblance to humans.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors.[/quote] Exactly. The gravemind seems to be pissed of at the forerunner for this very reason (other than the fact there tasty). He tells MB that they are arrogant and where stopping nature and a whole bunch of that. The precursors in there infinite wisdom would become arrogant and believe to be all powerful. Playing god. This was there sin. Wow that gave me an idea. If that was there sin. And snaky is correct (at least for the most part) and the precursor did create the flood. Well think of it this way. Someone who is mentally unstable usually has a child hood experience. The flood can be seen as an unnatural monster. Created by those who believed themselves to be gods. Is it possible that the gravemind new he himself was beast that could never belong in this universe? Coexist with all other life? Could this have been there sin? The creation of flood, himself? In rampancy he knew he could never "fit in". The precursor brought him into a tortures existence. For this he punished them, seeking revenge. His rampancy grew further, in his need to feel like he belonged he sought to consume all life that was not himself. Create an entire universe comprised of himself. Like a frightened child he would begin constructing lies to-justify what he has done, to create a reason for his existence, to try and absolve himself of his sins. And he would begin to believe his own lies. "The next stage of evolution" If this is correct, it brings a whole new light onto the flood. No longer an all consuming thing. But more of a frankenstein if you will. Cursed by his own existence, never being able to truly be apart of this world. [/quote] Perhaps. I doubt the Gravemind chose it's own existance as he questions -in halo 3- if he should take life or give it. He wonders who the victim is and who the real foe is.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors.[/quote] Exactly. The gravemind seems to be pissed of at the forerunner for this very reason (other than the fact there tasty). He tells MB that they are arrogant and where stopping nature and a whole bunch of that. The precursors in there infinite wisdom would become arrogant and believe to be all powerful. Playing god. This was there sin. Wow that gave me an idea. If that was there sin. And snaky is correct (at least for the most part) and the precursor did create the flood. Well think of it this way. Someone who is mentally unstable usually has a child hood experience. The flood can be seen as an unnatural monster. Created by those who believed themselves to be gods. Is it possible that the gravemind new he himself was beast that could never belong in this universe? Coexist with all other life? Could this have been there sin? The creation of flood, himself? In rampancy he knew he could never "fit in". The precursor brought him into a tortures existence. For this he punished them, seeking revenge. His rampancy grew further, in his need to feel like he belonged he sought to consume all life that was not himself. Create an entire universe comprised of himself. Like a frightened child he would begin constructing lies to-justify what he has done, to create a reason for his existence, to try and absolve himself of his sins. And he would begin to believe his own lies. "The next stage of evolution" If this is correct, it brings a whole new light onto the flood. No longer an all consuming thing. But more of a frankenstein if you will. Cursed by his own existence, never being able to truly be apart of this world.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [url=http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/f01.jpg]Well, it's here,[/url] but why would I put it in the OP? It doesn't seem to fit in with the theory, all it shows is that the Forerunners possibly looked like us.[/quote] To me, that looks like the outline of a person encased in a wall of feathers...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors.[/quote] An interesting, and very likely idea people. Bungie wouldn't mention that the Precursors could accelerate life for no reason. I added this to the OP.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. [/quote] "[i]Child[/i] of my enemy why have you come I offer no forgiveness a fathers [i]sins[/i] passed to his [i]son[/i]" Noticed what I italicised, this is evidence to what AJ said, the sin being creating life and playing god, and humanity being the "child" of the precursors. [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:57 AM PDT]
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[url=http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/voc/followup/f01.jpg]Well, it's here,[/url] but why would I put it in the OP? It doesn't seem to fit in with the theory, all it shows is that the Forerunners possibly looked like us. [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:47 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Actually Alex, there is an image in the Terminals showing what seems to be a suit of body armour, with a humanoid figure in the centre.[/quote] "What appears to be", it may seem like one thing but Bungie being Bungie and Halo being Halo, it is probably something different. Link that pic to the OP.
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Actually Alex, there is an image in the Terminals showing what seems to be a suit of body armour, with a humanoid figure in the centre.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^[/quote] BS! I was one of the first to come up with that I believe. About how the forerunner defeated the flood, the answer is very simple. They didn't. If you read Halo 4, in plain sight, it may clarify somethings for you. If the flood is not of this galaxy then more might be coming. Also the forerunner didn't winningly let themselves be consumed. They enacted a type of cole protocol as well, to stop its advance. Just 1 planet with intact ships and other archives would mark the beginning of the downfall of the entire Precursor race. Also about Sparks, I think humanity could in-fact be forerunner as well. A few of them may have cross breed (naturally, or artificially it doesn't matter). Both species having a similar genetic make up would no doubt have made this easier. Also we know forerunner are indeed very human like in emotions and perhaps body shape. [/quote] No we don't. None of that has been confirmed or even clarified, it is only a theory. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog AJ is write, I don't even know why I edited that part about Halo in. Randomness?[/quote] lulz [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:38 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^[/quote] BS! I was one of the first to come up with that I believe. About how the forerunner defeated the flood, the answer is very simple. They didn't. If you read Halo 4, in plain sight, it may clarify somethings for you. If the flood is not of this galaxy then more might be coming. Also the forerunner didn't winningly let themselves be consumed. They enacted a type of cole protocol as well, to stop its advance. Just 1 planet with intact ships and other archives would mark the beginning of the downfall of the entire Precursor race. Also about Sparks, I think humanity could in-fact be forerunner as well. A few of them may have cross breed (naturally, or artificially it doesn't matter). Both species having a similar genetic make up would no doubt have made this easier. Also we know forerunner are indeed very human like in emotions and perhaps body shape.
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AJ is right, I don't even know why I edited that part about Halo in. Randomness? [i]Edited for fail spelling of 'right'[/i] [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:40 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Asplodes from wisdom or fail? I personally hope the former.[/quote] *Head asplodes from infomation overload*
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As you said previously, Wolver: You believe the Didact fired Installation 04 first. Spark would recognise John as that of Forerunner/Precursor lineage and take into account what the Didact asked him. ("If it was my choice, would I do it?") So I wouldn't pass off Spark's reactions with confusion. However, I've given this a great deal of thought and I find it pretty damn likely. The Precursors had the ability to create worlds and accelerate the evolution of life. * I find it very likely that the Precursors would want a final legacy of themselves by creating their own race that hasn't been subject to the acceleration of their own evolution if they were indeed in the position of fading away. But then, what can be seen differently from Forerunner and Precursor. Since the Forerunners held the Mantle of the Precursors and passed it down to Humanity, the failure to recognise any Precursor DNA (or whatever) in John must mean the traces of the Mantle are fading. Also, there must have been a race before the Precursors, and a race before that and so on. I guess we'll never be sure 100%, that's good, actually. Because once you know all, what is there to strive for? This is a mystery that will haunt us in the Halo universe for a long time to come... * About the Precursors creating the Halo Rings. I don't believe that: [quote]"Oracle. What is Halo's purpose?" "Weapons of last resort, created by the Forerunners to eliminate potential Flood hosts." ~ Thel 'Vadam to 343 Guilty Spark in Halo 2[/quote] * [quote]Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. A fathers sins pass to his Son.[/quote] This probably refers to one of two things: > Snakie's theory about the Precursors creating the Flood. > Humanity being related directly from the Forerunners. The 300 year long war between the Forerunners and the Flood, the Didact lighting the Rings and starving the Flood for countless years so they slowly die. And John about to repeat that action by the phrase from the Iris Campaign titled: [i]"History Circling Back Upon Us"[/i] * But what is [i]very[/i] convincing is your quote from the Librarian. [quote]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries. ~ Librarian[/quote] She charged herself with cataloguing every species she could to protect them against the Flood and trapped herself on Earth, or as she calls it "Eden". Also: [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.[/quote] We know the Didact sought out the Precursors as he stated he wished to "follow in Their footsteps". Where this lead him, we don't know. He disappeared after the activation of the Rings, dead or alive, it is a mystery. When the Librarian was constructing the Portal on Earth, she was watched by a Tribesman called N'chala who wrote down everything he saw on rocks. Ancient Glyphs and drawings of Sentinels. She goes on to say that she built a garden and whenever a seed falls, a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. These days, that can take years to happen so this "growth acceleration" must play a part from the Precursors. [Edited on 08.30.2009 9:36 AM PDT]
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[quote] Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. A fathers sins pass to his Son.[/quote] Wait.........I just realized something, what sin did the Forerunners commit? If Humanity is actually the Precursors, and the Precursors created the Flood, that could very well mean that the sin the Gravemind mentions is playing god.
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Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^
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i am afraid that even though this is a well thought out and put together therory it does not convince me either way. i am not sure weather humans are decendants of forerunners or of persucutor or of neithor. what if both races were the same? just got split down the middle by the flood and one half got known as the forerunners and the other as the persucutors. about the part "the forerunners could have modified the technology to fire the rings." If the modified it then the humans (if they were persucutors) wouldn't be able to use it, cause it was modified for the forerunners. Also how could the forerunners beat the flood, when the persucutors who were far more advanced couldn't? i'm sorry though the part that seems unlikely, the unevolving part i actually agree with. The same thing happened to the brutes, they got up to the level of space technology and they had a planatary war which bought them down back to the stone age. that is the only civilization to do that twice. But still i agree with you on that part.
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I've slightly updated the OP, and I'll do so more later on.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gdude [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't? .[/quote] Then how did humanity defeat the flood, despite the forerunners not being able to?[/quote] I'm assuming you're talking about the Arc, in which case humanity used forerunner technology. The forerunners did defeat the flood, they just stupidly kept samples for testing.
