Well, Mayor Livingstone emphasised that the attacks were indiscriminate, targetting black and white, brown and tan, christian and muslim, hindu and jew alike. I think us British will be able to understand that. I hope so anyway.

Actually, I just want to apologise for going a bit off message in those last posts. It's not the time to be getting angry with people. But I do sincerely feel that we shouldn't sacrifice our civility in order to gain revenge. Revenge is not noble, and our recent history is not one prone to such revenge. And I would hope I've done more than a little research... it is in fact my job. [Edited on 7/7/2005]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Hoff Starr [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Fragula [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Normenator Well up here in the North thats how we feel. How can you want these people to be given the right to live on when they have not given those they have killed that right? They deserve nothing less than swift cold justice. And if it was the work of a deep penetration sleeper cell that has been here for over a decade i'd expect them to get convicted for high treason and to be hanged.[/quote] Then you're no better than them. You can't deride the barbarity of others and then call for equally barbaric retribution. It saddens me to see that basic human civility is not taught in our schools.[/quote] You are a fool. They deserve ahat has been said because they attacked soft targets without warning. Just shut up about being amicable and fair - by our justice system, we will have to pay shed loads in tax to keep them under house arrest (and probably a nicer house than mine) so shut your trap.[/quote] If you can lower yourself to barbarity without concern for your human morality then that's your own problem. I just don't think acting against the tradition of justice that has forged this country is even remotely required. We hear and read so often of the greatness of our country, how the English way of civility is enviable and to be aspired to... but the more I meet people with your attitudes, the more I'm forced to consider those traditions might just be the ideals of the élite in our society. Are the masses really blood-thirsty killers, waiting for any chance to wreak their violent vengeance? You tell me.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] X626 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Fragula Unlikely. Al Qæda as an organisation didn't actually exist until post 11/09, and even then it's just a small group of rich men who occasionally allow their money to be used for their geopolitical ends...[/quote] Actually that is incorrect. Al Queda has been around [b]at least[/b] since 1995, and in 1996 claimed responsibility for the attacks on the USS Cole. They have been around for probably much longer than that, hiding in the shadows like the weasels they are. Please do not belittle their involvment in worldwide affaris - they are a very real and dangerous threat and in no way are "just a small group of rich men with geo-poitical ends". They are a large and extremely dangerous group that needs to be exterminated for the vermin they are.[/quote] Well, you're wrong. The person who coined the phrase Al Qæda, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_al-Fadl]Jamal al-Fadl[/url], was in fact a criminal on the run from Osama after having stolen money from him. In order to gain a massive amount of money and witness protection from the US, he testified in court about the existence of this organisation with Osama at the head. This was needed by the US, as they wanted to try Osama in absentia, but under laws designed to tackle the Mafia, they first needed to prove he was head of a criminal organisation... and thus Al Qæda was born. As I said, the first time Osama uses the name Al Qæda is after 11/09, when he realises this is the name and organisation America has created for him. It fits in with his geopolitical aims to have some mythic sprawling tentacled organisation around the world to inspire fear, and thus he keeps it going. Prior to this, he'd [i]funded[/i] small, independant attacks, but indirectly and with little direct involvement. The fact is that there just isn't some massive and all pervading terrorist network known as Al Qæda. It's small, isolated groups who occasionally received funding from a small cabal of rich Saudis.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Normenator Well up here in the North thats how we feel. How can you want these people to be given the right to live on when they have not given those they have killed that right? They deserve nothing less than swift cold justice. And if it was the work of a deep penetration sleeper cell that has been here for over a decade i'd expect them to get convicted for high treason and to be hanged.[/quote] Then you're no better than them. You can't deride the barbarity of others and then call for equally barbaric retribution. It saddens me to see that basic human civility is not taught in our schools.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Normenator I'm sure many people share my view that our country has every right to do as they please to those responsible for today's murders, and you have no right to deny this. The people who launched these attacks today do not deserve the life they have been given.[/quote] If that does turn out to be the opinion of my countrymen, then I for one would feel disgusted to be British. We aren't barbarians. We respect life. We follow the rule of law, both domestic and international.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Normenator An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth as they say.[/quote] How can you quote that saying without knowing the related "an eye for an eye leaves us all blind". Revenge is not what civilised people do. We don't kill except in the direst circumstances. When and if the criminals who planted these bombs are caught, they will know the taste of a fair and decent British justice system. [Edited on 7/7/2005]