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Edited by danielseoul:
8/29/2015 1:58:25 AM
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Here we go again, it's like the carousel trap in Saw VI, round and round... Instead of repeating my arguments, I'll just pass off some conversations and situations that would occur if this clusterfuc-k of a system were ever to be implemented.
Spawn in on Templar. A level 26 grabs the relic simply because he saw the glowing icon. Templar pops in but relic holder doesn't know how to use it. "Let us know when you have a super!" You shout into your mic. But the 26 does not have a mic. He jumps around like an idiot. Boom! Oracle appears to his right. "Take out the oracle!" No one in this group in fact has a mic except you. In fact, you're the only one who even bothered to enter the fireteam chat. The other four simply shoot the endless pool of enemies, ignoring the oracle. Everyone's screen turns green. Oh no! The five noobs panic completely clueless as what's happening.
You run to the relic holder. "Cleanse me! Cleanse me god damn it!!!" He doesn't know what buttons do anything. Soon all six of you guys die. Relic is dropped and the other five question just what the fuc-k went wrong! "We were doing just fine! Why did our screens go greenish?" Abort. Next time you enter a match made VoG, you spawn in the Gorgon maze. You start to jump up to get the exotic chest but two team members begin to ignore it as they've already gotten the chest while the other three see a Harpy and shoot it. The screen goes all weird along with a buzz sound and your team dies. Spawn back in. You jump up to the rocks once more.
Four people from your team now know not to shoot but the fifth doesn't know why. He sees the Gorgon and shoots once more. Zap, dead! Abort. Third time you actually get in on the Atheon fight. Two guys stand in the back wall area unloading their heavy weapons on Atheon. He shoots them, kills both. You and two others know to take cover but a forth gets to a better angle and shoots with his base value Icebreaker he just bought from Xur. Unaware of how powerful Atheon is, he goes into the red from his blasts then while trying to flee, falls down the bottomless pit. Atheon opens time stream but no ones alive to open Mars or Venus. Three seconds later, the rest of the team drops dead. Abort. So all in all you just wasted over an hour with the matchmaking made system Bungie has given in to while LFG is right there.
There to hook you up with a sturdy all 34 all Ghorn bearing group who know VoG to the letter. I can't be the only one who thinks like this. And these examples are just based off of noobs in the raid. Let's not forget people going AFK, people intentionally sabotaging the raid, people coming in just to snag the checkpoint then leave, or simply unskilled players who can't hold their own. Throw in hard mode and forget about it. The raid system was designed to be done with people who can all communicate via headsets, know what to do and can play well. I still see people in VoG who even after nearly a year, still do not know how to use relic in VoG! For crying out loud! Look on YouTube, GameFAQS, anything! There's a treasure trove of guides out there people! No match made raids is the best thing Destiny has going. Case closed.
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Weird how borderlands never had a problem with it dummy
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Or they could just set optional match making with pre-set player values. Check a box and only people with mics are matched. Set a minimum level for your matchmaking. Set a minimum Light Level. Etc. "I've decided to set match making on my account to just 160+ Light Level, level 30+, and all must have mics." That would be perfect.
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Optional if that bothers you its about the choice. You wanna play with your elite friend fair enough let the lest of us have a chance.
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Edited by Dampfanator: 8/30/2015 4:41:03 PMEveryone always says that this happens in lfg sites too. Well yeah but with an lfg site you have the power to regulate your teams. And if optional matchmaking were to be implemented there better not be any check points and you cannot invite people into the raid either. Nope. Why would you get to? You wanted your random match made team now you got it finish the raid with the scrubs you get paired with.
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Ahem - [u][b]Optional[/b][/u] Matchmaking Also, by letting more people into the raids & level 34+ content - do you think more people will have more experience and so less likely to FU?
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"Optional" is not a solution,less people on lfg sites and more people bitching about how hard it is and nerf this nerf that,that's what gonna happen
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I swear the big problem with the raids is that not many players have played them because of how restrictive they are. WoW has LFG in chat, looking for LFR, BAM, instant group made. Was that hard? Sometimes you have good teams, fkn awesome teams, crappy teams (where you could damn near solo because they just suck just enough), and nooby to the max teams. But the option is there. Anyone want to add me?
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Edited by Bungolickstaints: 8/30/2015 1:03:38 AM1. That all happens on 3rd party sites teams too, no argument to be made there. 2. Maybe Bungie could implement mic-only lobbies? Or a system that shows # raid completions in lobbies so assholes like you can kick anybody not elite enough? 3. Better to actually be able to make it to Templar with a team of complete idiots then to never make it there at all. 4. If people didn't like it, they could still use 3rd party sites. 5. Case reopened.
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That all happens anyways
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Crota: you spawn in at the lamp maze. 3 people stay at the start shooting the endless mass of thrall. You manage to jump to the upper level with your titan and head for the end, but everyone else continues their assault and eventually makes their way past the first three lamps triggering the thrall to spawn on the second level. Being the only person there you get mobbed and die. 10 minutes later the group finally revives their way to the top and gets obliterated by the ogre. You spawn into the bridge. People seem to know what is going on and start to activate the bridge, but there is only one on the left totem who gets swamped by acolytes and dies. Another person goes for the center plate and kills some thralls. The screen turns red and everyone dies. You spawn at Deathsinger. 3 people try to engage and kill the first Knights you encounter, 2 of them die. By this time you have lured out the left witch, but she quickly kills 2 more that don't know where to hide. You take out the shrieker and go for revives, but nobody has lured the right witch. They are all still trying to kill the adds. By now the screen turns red and everyone panics. Wipe. You spawn at Crota. 2 people die in the crystal room from acolyte fire. Nobody has a way to regen health. You revive them after clearing the room, but by this time someone has gone outside and started shooting at Crota and dies. Those who know to shoot the over soul use primaries or rockets. Wipe. Next round everyone gets through the first part correctly. You kill the swordbearer and pick up the sword. Only 3 of the party has a mic and they use primaries to shoot at Crota. His shield goes to 50% and pops immediately back up a couple times. Your invisibility runs out and you abort the attack. Next time a couple people do have rockets, but run out of ammo after the first attack, so you go to ogres after getting only 3 hits in on Crota. Someone dies, over soul, wipe.
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^^^^ THIS
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Best reply ever
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But everything you just said happens in lfg...
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Optional. Doesn't effect you or prevent you from doing it the way you always have.
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Optional or not, Bungie will never bother to move some zeros and ones to make this happen. They designed the raids and know exactly how much coordination and concentration goes into completing one. Assuming they gave into public demand, white flag raised and all they would then be forced to nerf the raid to accommodate everyone who would jump in saying they have no idea what to do since they're given virtually no instructions. Last time I checked, well less then half of all people who currently play Destiny have actually completed a raid. Repeat, less then half. Once match made raids would appear, everyone would be crowding them like the lifeboats on a sinking ship. Lag would be constant no doubt from their bullshit servers, but the main thing is that nothing would get done thus eliminating the matchmaking usefulness in the first place. Trials has become a laughing joke with cheaters galore in addition to the occasional lag. This is one of the few things Bungie and I can agree on is that even an optional system would serve no purpose. Trial and error doesn't count with raids if you stick it out with randoms for five plus hours and they still can't beat Templar. A lobby would be more appropriate where you could see people in a queue, inspect their characters to see their gear, check mic status and what part of the raid they're up to. Granted I would voice no opposition to a sophisticated system like that in-game. But you, me and everyone else here know all too well unless it's a matter of staying in business or going broke, Bungie will not design such a thing. No amount of public pressure would cause them to change their minds either. Simply being thrown into the bowl like a tossed salad like everyone is saying is not thinking outside the box. Sols and all the critics of no match made raids will continue to voice their anger but unless a better system that the players and the designers can both agree on then the arguments will just drag on.
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You make the assumption that a matchmade fireteam must continue after a wipe. A vote screen after a wipe where you see stats and can then select who you would be willing to continue with comes up. Only the players who all mutually select each other continue with empty slots in the fireteam filled (potentially) with others at the same check point currently looking for a match. Fireteams would of course have the option to proceed without a full 6 if desired.
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Only half completed a raid because 75% left this game when they realized what it was. According to wastedondestiny.com there are under 100,000 left across 4 systems. I'm sure matchmaking would have kept some of them.
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Haha there are way more than that still playing
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I'm not so sure. If it was still a respectable number, why does Bungie only tout "registered users" instead of active players? I don't know if you know this, but they're not the same thing.
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You speak as if Everyone who would Ever use destiny matchmaking would Have to be a complete toolbox who is incapable of holding his gun the right way. Although I'll agree, you're bound to run into those types of matchups every once in a while, it's not like that will happen Every time. I would love raid matchmaking. I have a mike, I understand the concept of the raid, I'm willing to communicate, I just need people to play with sometimes. I have a clan, and I have friends that play, but they are very rarely on at the same time that I am. Maybe I have 4 on, and we just need 2 more. Use matchmaking for the last guy, turns out he's cool, beat the raid, he joins the clan, happily ever after. Or maybe he's an idiot 4 year old, in which case the leader just boots him and tries again. I just don't see how anyone would argue against something that is Optional. It wouldn't be hurting you, only helping me. You could still get your premade team of 6 together and roflstomp through the raid as if the matchmaking never existed.
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Whenever I'm asked by people to raid, who are unknown to me or are friends of other friends I know the result is always the same. People are ignorant when it comes to the raids. The likelihood of me in the two mentioned scenarios having someone with a mic, a max 34 level with excellent weapons and knows exactly what to do so far has been completely impossible. Quite the opposite each and every time. I don't chalk that up to bad luck either. Stats show a very small percentage of Destiny players have in fact completed even a normal raid.
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Edited by OneTrueSuperJew: 8/29/2015 5:35:47 PMI'll agree, not all that many people are lvl 34 with the best weapons and have the raid down to a science. Heck, I don't even have it down like that, I'm prone to make mistakes. The difference between me and you(not a bad difference, just a difference of gameplay preference and experience) is that I don't mind people that aren't the best, because I'm not either. As long as they are trying and we are all having fun. I don't mind wiping on the templar and having to try it a few times before we get him down. Or wiping on Atheon until everyone Finally figures out which side is venus and which is mars lol. But then, I haven't done the raid as many times as you i'm sure(I've only done it 4 or 5 times because of my lack of online friends) so I still enjoy the act of struggling through. Everyone starts out a noob, but even the dimwit you mentioned that won't stop grabbing the relic can(usually) be taught, as long as he has a mike and can comprehend what we are saying. I do agree with those that think a mike requirement is a must. Someone who cannot communicate with his fireteam stands 0 chance of getting anywhere. All the scenarios you mentioned stem from those who have no mike, hence why having a mike is an absolute must
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Exactly. These guys flaunt like every player has to know exactly how to do every raid to a T, totally because we've all played Destiny into destruction and are only playing because the game is awesome. I don't understand why it's such a big deal to not have it, is level 32+ exclusive secret content for only the most popular players? I didn't have a hard time getting all 3 of mine to 32 in a few weeks of casual play, but when I hit 32 it just went stale, no level up, nothing, more Legendaries that did nothing, the rare, super rare, exotic would pop up out of one of those legendary engrams, just seems unnecessary to restrict a large majority of the players from the best content in the game.
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Here is why everyone of your scenarios is -blam!-ing stupid. Self preservation..... Not one of them takes into account that even the idiot "26" is there to succeed. They want to finish the activity just as much if not more than you unless they are simply there to troll (which I'm sure would happen but would likely be rare). By your logic everyone out there in the world that ISNT YOU is just banging around aimlessly picking up every object until it either wins for them or blows up in their face.
