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Edited by Hawpy:
7/13/2015 10:59:37 PM
329
Why are Scout Rifles so rarely seen in Crucible?
Scout Rifles are currently the second-least used weapon type, ahead of only Sidearms that have been in that game for ~7 weeks, as opposed to just over 10 months. What I want to know is: why? They answer several problems and complaints that people seem to have at the moment
Snipers OP - Scout Rifles are the only weapons that can actually compete with Snipers at long range reliably, so why are they not used?
Thorn needs a range nerf - see above
Auto Rifle buff - Some of the high RoF Scout Rifles can be rolled with Full Auto to provide a weapon that fires faster than a Focus Fire Auto Rifle of the SUROS Impact/RoF denomination, while also dealing more damage and having more range, so why not use them? Good examples are the Deadshot Luna and the NL Shadow. Makeshift AR right there.
Thorn/TLW are broken with 2-shots - High impact Scout Rifles can score 3-hit kills that no one can complain about, hell, The Scholar can 2-shot. If you're looking for a counter, try MIDA Multi-Tool, the hidden talent of High-Calibre rounds and the speedy movements it allows for turn you into a someone that screams "You can't beat what you can't hit"
If you were to ask me (here we go, yet another opinion), I think the reason behind their disuse is the abuse of Shotguns. I shan't lie, there is no worse weapon to be caught using than a Scout Rifle if a Shotgun comes round the corner, ready to blow your head off. I'd be very interested to know anyone else's reasons and thoughts on the matter.
Perhaps, if nothing is going to be nerfed, a slight Scout Rifle buff is in order? The last one was in October and has shown no signs of increased usage
Edit 1: It's great to have found a plethora of Scout Rifle users like myself, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and debating the points raised here. For now, I'm going to sleep, so will be unable to reply to any of you for the next few hours (rest assured, I shall do my best to get back to you ASAP). Thank you all very much for keeping this post as active as it has been!
Edit 2: The answer I have been given many times now is "Why use them when Hand Cannons are available?". This is exactly the problem the Crucible faces at the moment. A Scout Rifle requires precision and nerve, but Exotic Hand Cannons can be put to stellar use by just about anyone, so there is no incentive to not use them - the bad players use them in hopes of raising their K/D by using something overpowered, and the good players use them so they don't fall behind to everyone else using the same weapons. Someone I used to be friends with, and now despise, has a K/D of 3.97 and 41942 kills with The Last Word, almost double the kills I have in Crucible full stop. From what I understand, he's ranked the 11th best player in the world (according to DestinyTracker). Combine those kind of stats with the sheer numbers of people using TLW/Thorn, it amazes me that this has gone on for so long.
Edit 3: Seriously, massive thanks to everyone who has kept this in the "Trending" section for the last 15-16 hours, stoking the fire of debate with each new point raised. I owe you all one :D
Edit 4: Out of curiosity, I'm wondering who has seen Datto's video that complains about the current state of Crucible ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHenCd2BWNQ for those of you who are interested and yet to see it). It sums up pretty much every non-Scout Rifle related thing I could say, and unlike myself, he's a big enough personality in the community to cause a change
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The Scout Rifle is my most used primary and I have over 2K kills with it, so I can speak from the point of view of someone experienced. Here's why they aren't used: -Snipers: they are a scout rifle, but better. One shot to the head and two shots to the body at longer distances, as opposed to scout rifles taking multiple headshots or multiple bodyshots to kill someone. In a long range scenario, it's not practical since you can't move quickly enough to take cover before getting headshotted or double-bodyshotted. The sniper, however, has a lot more time to move because you have to chain several shots. Basically snipers are more lethal, never suffer from damage dropoff, they give you more room for error, and are harder to defend against as opposed to scout rifles --ARs: this is only the case because ARs suck. The only reason you [i]ever[/i] see as scout, even occasionally, right now is because Auto Rifles aren't as prevalent. Before 1.1.1, ARs were easier to use than Scouts at any distance, more versatile, quicker killing, and suffered nearly no damage penalty. -Hand Cannons and MIDA: the issue is that [i]all[/i] Hand Cannons have the same flinch multiplier as the MIDA (with its hidden High Caliber rounds perk). Other Scouts are below this flinch multiplier and given that Hand Cannons are easier to use, kill quicker, and are effective at both long and close ranges (scouts are only good at medium-long range, they suck at close range). -Shotguns: this is another problem related to map design and the hipfire performance of Scout Rifles. As you may know, most Scouts have a high zoom multiplier and so scoping in when you're getting rushed is very impractical. You're left with the option of hipfiring, which is absolutely terrible with Scouts because of incredible amounts of bloom when hipfiring, as well as a terrible reticle that doesn't help with aiming at all. I would say change the hipfire reticle to being like Pulse Rifles, and reduce the bloom on hipfiring a bit.
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They dont fit the meta the maps are all close quarters theres only about 1 area on each one where you can actually be succesful with a scout rifle(im not talking about you nevessatly just in general ). Pulse rifles on these maps have the same range pretty much and have a lower ttk whats the point of using one then? They need to add the old much larger maps for scout rifles to be seen more often. The only map i can name that you can be 100% successful without specfic areas are pantheon and shores of time because the linear map styles theres 3 lanes to go in and thats it no where else making it easy ro pick people off.
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Just used it on my hunter . The scholar is a beast 73 on head shots and with reactive reload it does 97 on the head. Had 37 kills with 12 kd. I loved it.
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1 ReplyBecause all the maps are close quarters. Bungie put all the scout rifle maps in combined arms.
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Thorn and last word took over, they need a nerf and auto rifles need a buff
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Scoutr Rifles are probably the most well balanced guns in the game, but there's two problems. 1) A lot of other guns aren't, and are more effective. 2) Maps for every game type outside of Combined Arms are mostly tight close/mid quarters affairs rendering Scout Rifles far less effective.
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2 RepliesFukk the multool.. scholar is far better..
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3 RepliesEdited by ScorpionEvolved: 7/14/2015 2:53:33 AMMida is my favorite weapon in the crucible. And I got my Gheleons Demise no as well, its pretty awesome. Hopefully I can get another Gheleons as I would like to try a different roll out. Edit: I would also like a scholar pls. Preferably an adept void scholar. *Cough cough* rngesus
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I love using scout rifles on maps like Pantheon. I really do screw up some snipers with my Salvation State.
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3 RepliesGamers are like water. They will take the path of least resistance/most advantage. Hand Cannons are that path. And shotties Sadly. ARs were before. The great river of bungies ineptitude flows on...
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Honestly if mida ever becomes super overpowered like thorn or the last word, I'm gonna over abuse it so much because I love the mida. I use mida all the time when in crucible and if it gets a huge buff I'll use it even more because I'll be able to say "my gun was under rated and when it got buffed everyone used it, I love that anyone can use it now."
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Because there aren't enough mid to long range encounters on most maps. You'd honestly be better off with handcannons and pulse rifles. I personally use scout rifles because I prefer DMRs in most games I have played. I use VoC, MIDA, or my Aries Nemesis X4 (vanilla weapon) usually lately.
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I love my Mida & Vision!!!!
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2 Replies"Scout Rifles are the only weapons that can actually compete with Snipers at long range " Have you ever played with Thorn? That competes at sniper-like ranges.
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Edited by xChiZmx: 7/14/2015 2:22:59 AMOP -- currently there are two types of rerollable scout rifles (fast = Shadow and Slower = Salvation state). What do you roll on each and why? For me I roll full auto on the fast ones because it feels like I get finger finger lag trying to keep up with the r.o.f. and the slower ones I try to beef up the stagger to offset the slower r.o.f. Edit: I like the mida but hate it's sight or I'd use it more.
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Because thorn exists.
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Edited by A Stupid Person: 7/14/2015 12:07:20 AMThey are not op that's why
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I've been a scout rifle user since day one. Sadly they are outclassed it pvp by pulse rifles and hand cannons. They wreck in pvp though!
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1 ReplyI've wondered this myself.. Look at a scouts range/impact and then compare it to a sniper or hand cannon.. If you look at just stats, Scouts SHOULD killl WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY faster than they do in crucible there is a raal disparity there
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I love minda in crucible. It kicks ass
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7 RepliesI've got a deadshotluna with full auto and exploding rounds, didn't have to re roll it, curious to see how it does in crucible.
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Sadly enough they are outclassed by long range Thorns, TLW, blink shotgun combo, and just about anything else. I wish they would buff scouts by a bit
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3 RepliesThe maps are too small and lots of cover. In addition, you find yourself around corners on many of the short range maps which are shotgun paradise. That's not a problem with hand cannons but in map design. It couldn't hurt to add more flinching to scout rifle damage since they are forced to be used in small maps. The flinching will make it harder for those two head shot weapons to land that second head shot while you keep steady and squeeze off another round.
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2 RepliesThe TTK can be very slow for mist scout rifles. Miss is a fine scout rifle but it's out weighed by most pulse rifles and hand cannons.
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I recently bought the crucible scout and rerolled it for auto and third eye. Its a beast and my new favorite weapon.
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Because the maps are too small and scouts are balanced.
