[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 The radiation is a clear mistake and we all accepted that soon as the game came out.[/quote] And in John's case? How many "mistakes" are we to overlook to "prove" one character dead? [quote]Jorge is dead for the last time. When people bring up facts against that you try hiding behind "It is my theory and i am not saying it is 100 percent" yet you fell the need to try forcing that on people and posting it everywhere you can.[/quote] Until we see a body or a member of Bungie and/or 343i clearly say that Jorge is dead, then I'm sorry, but it's not a fact. You say that I'm "hiding" behind the fact that it's a theory of a possibility, yet every nay-sayer is then "hiding" behind the Essential Guide and assumptions. Forcing on people? No. If there's strong enough evidence against it, then I would accept that. Yet so far, any evidence brought to support death is either just as reliant on assumption and speculation, or it's contradicted by several other instances in the canon. Hell, if I was any more of a nut I'd begin to think that all this "leap to denial" of even the possibility of survival is a fan conspiracy to erase all traces of Reach. [quote]You are the only person on both forums to constantly state he is alive after we see what happens.[/quote] I state the [i]possibility[/i] that he's alive. And I've actually seen a few more people comment with the same, just less "studied," as it were. Yeah, we all see what happens, but it would be like seeing the [i]In Amber Clad[/i] disappear in New Mombasa, and having never seen them again assume that they're all dead. Or maybe like the crew of the [i]Spirit of Fire.[/i] We never see them again, and so most have assumed that they're dead. But we don't know for a fact. Or it would be as though there was no Epilogue cutscene in Halo 3. Did you know that there were several people who skipped the credits of Halo 3, and actually [i]did[/i] assume that John was dead? [quote]You are suppose to go through a slipspace portal not have one form over you[/quote] Never mind, I got it. Yes, true, you're supposed to. But see here's the thing: The [i]In Amber Clad[/i] and a good portion of the city of New Mombasa had that happen to them. All that was inside the portal was transported as is - buildings were intact unless partially covered, in which case that segment inside was transported. It's not like an explosion where the [i]Ardent Prayer[/i] would have been blown to bits. It simply would have been one moment it's in normal space, and the next (upon activation of the FTL drive,) it would have been in slipspace. [quote]not to mention i don't understand why you would think it had a destination that would have it survive.[/quote] As far as I understand, slipspace portals are all basically "wormholes." There's a Point A and a Point B. There [i]had[/i] to be an exit point, it's just the jump made with the FTL drive of the [i]Savannah[/i] was very likely randomized. This would mean that the [i]Ardent Prayer[/i] and the rubble of the [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] are in an unknown location. [Edited on 05.04.2012 7:19 PM PDT]

The radiation is a clear mistake and we all accepted that soon as the game came out. Jorge is dead for the last time. When people bring up facts against that you try hiding behind "It is my theory and i am not saying it is 100 percent" yet you fell the need to try forcing that on people and posting it everywhere you can. You are the only person on both forums to constantly state he is alive after we see what happens. You are suppose to go through a slipspace portal not have one form over you not to mention i don't understand why you would think it had a destination that would have it survive.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE 1.- We don't even know if that was only the energy built up for the glassing beam or if that's the actual power of the beam, either way it didn't hit them directly.[/quote] We can get a pretty good idea. As soon as they notice Covenant retreating Kat says [i]"Radiation flare! Big! Forty million roentgens! "[/i] Now, having the actual spelling of "roentgens" I was able to look up what it is and it's lethality. It's a unit of measurement for exposure to ionizing radiation. [b][u]500 roentgens over five hours is lethal for a human.[/b][/u] We then are able to know that it's ionizing radiation because [i]"Atomic excitement scrambled the signal. Ninety million now!"[/i] Ninety million. That's 180,000 times the lethal dose for humans. Noble team should have been dead, even if the glassing beam was a half-mile away. Yet it was close enough to blast out the window, knock Noble team down, and temporarily blind Kat. What's more, Kat Jun and Carter were all without their helmets at the moment of the blast, yet they didn't die. What's more, with the "we don't knows," do you know what type of radiation is put out from slipspace? Or if any radiation is put out from the FTL drive itself? Yeah, me neither. We have no real notion of how the FTL drives actually work. For all we know it uses an electronic impulse to rip a hole in the "fabric" of space. In which case Jorge would be shielded within the [i]Ardent Prayer,[/i] and would have to only worry about EMP at worst. But then again, MJOLNIR is well shielded against EMP. This little unknown is further compounded by John's situation, of which I'll touch on with the next post. [quote]2.- Problem is, he was wearing a helmet and he wasn't in the same room as the slispace engine.[/quote] I can only assume you mean John here, in which case your observations are irrelevant. Yes, John was wearing a helmet. But how do you know Jorge didn't put his back on? It's not like it was gone forever, it was only on the floor. I find it very hard to believe that with his Spartan II training and conditioning that he would just "give up." Even still, the nature of John's location complicates the paralleling survivability of the two Spartans. While John wasn't right next to the FTL drive, he was directly exposed to slipspace. He was also directly exposed to the initial wave of Installation 04B. By all accounts, both of these would be far more lethal than the simple activation of a slipstream portal, yet we know for a fact that John survived. So why not Jorge? [quote]3.- Again, they were not next to it when it happened, you seem to not notice that Jorge was literally in the center of the slipspace wake, without a helmet.[/quote] Already addressed. [quote]Also, they cannot cure all kinds of cancer and there has been instances were radiation kills them too, like, i don't know...that one time in Mamore when a terrorist set off a nuke in the middle of the city, killing two million people, with another 8.3 million injured and many more expected to die due to cancers and radiation poisoning for many generations.[/quote] Cancer they can cure quite easily, according to Midnight in the Heart of Midlothian. Remember Baird? The ODST was told he had cancer, and that it was easily treatable within an hour. It's almost like the common cold any more. Hell, Baird didn't even know what cancer was. However, on radiation poisoning, the snippet from Halsey's Journal on the events of Mamore didn't expand on any radiation poisoning specifically. It only said that there was radiation sent into the atmosphere and corruption of crops. I can only assume that the poisoning came from Glasslands, of which we know Traviss didn't pay the best attention to minor canonical details (i.e. a Spartan punching Halsey so hard that it shook her arm, and only gave Halsey a bloody nose.) It's possible that those 8.3 million people suffered further than necessary because of a complete lack of resources. Or it's possible that Traviss yet again created a problem that wasn't there. Several other canonical points (New Mombasa, John-117, Noble Team in New Alexandria,) show this to be next to a non-issue.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HippySlayer222 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Atomicbronc [url=http://leviathan.bungie.org/]Here[/url] is a lovely fan-made comic. There is no "official" cause of death.[/quote] This gave me a feel[/quote]"Once Again...With Feeling"

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Atomicbronc [url=http://leviathan.bungie.org/]Here[/url] is a lovely fan-made comic. There is no "official" cause of death.[/quote] This gave me a feel

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jack0fhearts [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE How so? MJOLNIR has only 90 minutes of air, not to mention that slipspace travel takes weeks[/quote] True. But the [i]Ardent Prayer[/i] still had plenty of air. It was intact when transported. Given that Jorge could survive the weeks aboard the ship, he'd come out the other side and be able to escape on either the Sabres or the Seraphs and Banshees. [quote]and all that radiation would have killed him.[/quote] Logically, yes. If slipspace portals emit ionized radiation and emit it from the device. Which leads one to wonder why they don't kill everyone on ships regardless. Plus, given that they can cure cancer within hours and that they fight with enemies who use radiation and that MJOLNIR armor has a nuclear fusion power source, radiation poisoning is probably something easily cured, and likely held within Medkits and biofoam. Plus, looking at it from the canon, we have several instances where the radiation did not kill individuals. In Reach, Kat, Jun and Carter were directly exposed to "90,000,000 rutgens" of radiation. Yet they didn't die. Technically, they should have been vaporized on the spot. In Halo 3, John is in the open and exposed cargo hold of the [i]Forward Unto Dawn.[/i] Not only is he exposed to the initial blast from Installation 04B, but he was exposed to the slipspace portal - and even slipspace itself. We know for a fact that he's alive. In Halo 3: ODST, the entire city of New Mombasa was exposed to "slipspace radiation" from the residue. Yet to our knowledge none of the soldiers and civilians - including Buck - got radiation poisoning to where it was life-threatening or died as an effect of poisoning. [/quote] 1.- We don't even know if that was only the energy built up for the glassing beam or if that's the actual power of the beam, either way it didn't hit them directly. 2.- Problem is, he was wearing a helmet and he wasn't in the same room as the slispace engine. 3.- Again, they were not next to it when it happened, you seem to not notice that Jorge was literally in the center of the slipspace wake, without a helmet. Also, they cannot cure all kinds of cancer and there has been instances were radiation kills them too, like, i don't know...that one time in Mamore when a terrorist set off a nuke in the middle of the city, killing two million people, with another 8.3 million injured and many more expected to die due to cancers and radiation poisoning for many generations.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen Anyone see a guest appearance for Jun in Halo 5? Can't wait till they pull that one outta their sleeves. As long as he's not confirmed dead in any source of canon. He's basically put in canon limbo. Anyone else telling you otherwise is being naive to how Sci-fi writing works. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 He's in canonical limbo.[/quote] Oh ya beat me to it.[/quote] Hi thar Ninja. Also, I'm with the canonical limbo tid bit

Anyone see a guest appearance for Jun in Halo 5? Can't wait till they pull that one outta their sleeves. As long as he's not confirmed dead in any source of canon. He's basically put in canon limbo. Anyone else telling you otherwise is being naive to how Sci-fi writing works. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] HipiO7 He's in canonical limbo.[/quote] Oh ya beat me to it. [Edited on 05.04.2012 4:57 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE How so? MJOLNIR has only 90 minutes of air, not to mention that slipspace travel takes weeks[/quote] True. But the [i]Ardent Prayer[/i] still had plenty of air. It was intact when transported. Given that Jorge could survive the weeks aboard the ship, he'd come out the other side and be able to escape on either the Sabres or the Seraphs and Banshees. [quote]and all that radiation would have killed him.[/quote] Logically, yes. If slipspace portals emit ionized radiation and emit it from the device. Which leads one to wonder why they don't kill everyone on ships regardless. Plus, given that they can cure cancer within hours and that they fight with enemies who use radiation and that MJOLNIR armor has a nuclear fusion power source, radiation poisoning is probably something easily cured, and likely held within Medkits and biofoam. Plus, looking at it from the canon, we have several instances where the radiation did not kill individuals. In Reach, Kat, Jun and Carter were directly exposed to "90,000,000 rutgens" of radiation. Yet they didn't die. Technically, they should have been vaporized on the spot. In Halo 3, John is in the open and exposed cargo hold of the [i]Forward Unto Dawn.[/i] Not only is he exposed to the initial blast from Installation 04B, but he was exposed to the slipspace portal - and even slipspace itself. We know for a fact that he's alive. In Halo 3: ODST, the entire city of New Mombasa was exposed to "slipspace radiation" from the residue. Yet to our knowledge none of the soldiers and civilians - including Buck - got radiation poisoning to where it was life-threatening or died as an effect of poisoning.

Pursuing Jun's character would be cool..

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jack0fhearts [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE Logistically speaking, there's not a chance for Jorge to be alive.[/quote] Based on other canon events, there actually is a chance; a good one, at that.[/quote] How so? MJOLNIR has only 90 minutes of air, not to mention that slipspace travel takes weeks and all that radiation would have killed him. Jorge is dead, end of the discussion.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE Logistically speaking, there's not a chance for Jorge to be alive.[/quote] Based on other canon events, there actually is a chance; a good one, at that.

yeah i always wonder what happened to him. it would have been funny if he teamed up with Master chief later.

Mother of God... Talk about [i]obliterating[/i] a dead horse...

He's in canonical limbo.

He left the world the same way he entered it. Naked and screaming.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Arbiter 739 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MasterSin Bungie stated that Jun did survived the Battle of Reach, but Frankie said he wasn't going to pursue his story further.[/quote] Hmm, I'd almost agree- But think of the Halo Bible. They have a large portion of the story already planned out. I'd bet that Jun is going to come up in either the books or the game at some point. [/quote] Nobody actually knows what the Halo Story Bible entails, though. The name suggests that the whole universe has been planned out rather methodically, but considering how muddled everything has been, the HSB may just be a general outline with a basic backstory against which to set whatever work might be done. I think that unless Jun plays a major role in future events (like, earth-movingly major), he's probably not going to be a significant feature in the HSB. I remember this thing being a huge deal back during the days of my first account... Christ, I guess that was seven years ago. But we never saw it, and it sorta faded from consciousness once people started to recognize that it was just an outline rather than a detailed script of everything Halo. It's probably got dates and basic markers for tons of events, and it may even be book-sized. But everything's just going to be blurbs so the people who might create things around those dates and events actually have room to create. It's the tradeoff we get between clarity and creativity, and it's why the storyline has had such issues with things not lining up as neatly as we'd like (that last part's conjecture, but it's educated conjecture). Theoretically 343i could make everything line up neatly (it wouldn't be that hard), but it would be so [i]deus ex machina[/i] that people would just laugh. I feel like at this point 343i should just admit that the storyline is a little messy, maybe do some clean-up. But I digress. Also, I'd like to know what Bungie's definition of "survived Battle of Reach" is. Does it mean Jun simply lived through the Covenant invasion, or does he make it off-world somehow? If he lived on world... Damn. That's some lonely shenanigans. Maybe he turned a dud bomb into a companion, kinda like Tom Hanks did with that volleyball. Play that scenario out in your head. It's fun stuff.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GhostLink2401 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MasterSin Bungie stated that Jun did survived the Battle of Reach, but Frankie said he wasn't going to pursue his story further.[/quote] So they're just gonna leave that big of a loose end unresolved? Possibly one of the only survivors of Reach, and the ONLY surviving Noble Spartan (aside from Jorge, potentially). Wow.[/quote] Logistically speaking, there's not a chance for Jorge to be alive.

[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=71955038]This guy seems to have the answer you're looking for.[/url]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MasterSin Bungie stated that Jun did survived the Battle of Reach, but Frankie said he wasn't going to pursue his story further.[/quote] So they're just gonna leave that big of a loose end unresolved? Possibly one of the only survivors of Reach, and the ONLY surviving Noble Spartan (aside from Jorge, potentially). Wow.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MasterSin Bungie stated that Jun did survived the Battle of Reach, but Frankie said he wasn't going to pursue his story further.[/quote] Hmm, I'd almost agree- But think of the Halo Bible. They have a large portion of the story already planned out. I'd bet that Jun is going to come up in either the books or the game at some point.

Until Halo is washed up and dead. Halo Forever anyone? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MasterSin Bungie stated that Jun did survived the Battle of Reach, but Frankie said he wasn't going to pursue his story further.[/quote]

Bungie stated that Jun did survived the Battle of Reach, but Frankie said he wasn't going to pursue his story further. [Edited on 05.02.2012 9:42 PM PDT]

[url=http://leviathan.bungie.org/]Here[/url] is a lovely fan-made comic. There is no "official" cause of death.

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