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12/12/2011 12:25:17 AM
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Ignore feature

Since it was pretty interesting to read, I'd like to fork the discussion being had in [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=68362580]this thread[/url] on the topic of "self-moderation" through the use of filtering tools, such as an ignore user feature. I'm in support of a feature like this, and have been for quite a while, even before starting to moderate. See, I noticed that there were users who cluttered up the forum by constantly posting the same mindless drivel, but there wasn't anything I could do about it except do my best to ignore it, which is sometimes difficult when it's so prevalent. The problem was occasionally worse when what these users were posting [i]I considered to be spam[/i], yet the moderators didn't agree or there were mitigating circumstances that didn't necessitate a blacklist (which [b]removes[/b] the content, albeit temporarily), or it took a long amount of time for a moderator to see the offending content and take action. The point is, realistically, moderators are the only users capable of removing content from the forums, and that sucks for regular users with no equivalent tool. You have no way of removing things that anger or annoy you; you need to hope that someone else can and will do it for you, and do it within some kind of internally acceptable frame of time that only you yourself can and will determine. Now, speaking as a moderator, this kind of problem isn't so bad, since sometimes it's actual rule-breaking stuff that I can get rid of, [i]but only because I have the tools to do it[/i]. Again, you guys don't, and that's why it's an issue that I still acknowledge and am trying to find good solutions for. It just so happens that this is one of them. So, three main points here: - People post annoying crap - You have no way to remove it - You have to rely on a moderators decision which may or may not result in the content being removed (via blacklist), that decision may not be quick enough, and it may not be what you were hoping for

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  • I don't know if I like that idea... people would surely abuse it to the great annoyance of whoever has been 'ignored' by the other member. They could do stuff like get in an argument, get pissed because they were losing, then ignore you and you can never talk to them again, it could exclude you from taking part in any other discussion they were involved in because they ignored you. I don't like that at all... People already abuse the ability to block PMs, a guy once blocked me just because of an argument we had over PMs and now I can't contact that member ever again. I wasn't done with that argument.

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  • In which case, there is no reason as to why they should not with regards to our bungie.net experience being maximized. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zealot Tony [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 Do you actually see this being implemented though?[/quote] It's all a matter of determining if the web-team believes it would help maximise the experiences of users in this community. [/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 Do you actually see this being implemented though?[/quote] It's all a matter of determining if the web-team believes it would help maximise the experiences of users in this community.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dazarobbo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 As in, nothing would happen at all? That user would just be ignored and not banned?[/quote]If they haven't broken the forum rules, then of course not. The idea is simply about harnessing the data available from ignored users and putting it to use.[/quote]Gotcha, that seems logical and very effective. +1 smarts for you. Do you actually see this being implemented though?[/quote]If I may interject (for lack of a response), I think it's highly likely it will get implemented in some way, shape, form, or manner. Achronos, if not [b]entirely[/b] for the ideas presented, seems very interests in the concept itself. And, considering it's on the latter end of the scale on the way to 1000, the community seems highly engrossed in discussion as well. So I think it will be implemented even if it's form is as primitive as the ability to minimize specific posts, or, adversely, as complex as a hybrid of evilcam's ignoring idea and duardo's thoughts on a more sophisticated report system.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dazarobbo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 As in, nothing would happen at all? That user would just be ignored and not banned?[/quote]If they haven't broken the forum rules, then of course not. The idea is simply about harnessing the data available from ignored users and putting it to use.[/quote]Gotcha, that seems logical and very effective. +1 smarts for you. Do you actually see this being implemented though?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 As in, nothing would happen at all? That user would just be ignored and not banned?[/quote]If they haven't broken the forum rules, then of course not. The idea is simply about harnessing the data available from ignored users and putting it to use.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dazarobbo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 But what if someone is mass-ignored but they never actually break the rules, they are just generally disliked or their posts are of no interest to a large sum of people. Yes, I know it is widely hypothetical but it is probable. A lot mentioned in this thread is hypothetical more than actuality. Just my input there, row-boat. ;)[/quote]Nothing at all.[/quote]As in, nothing would happen at all? That user would just be ignored and not banned?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 But what if someone is mass-ignored but they never actually break the rules, they are just generally disliked or their posts are of no interest to a large sum of people. Yes, I know it is widely hypothetical but it is probable. A lot mentioned in this thread is hypothetical more than actuality. Just my input there, row-boat. ;)[/quote]Nothing at all.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dazarobbo What if, instead of directly linked to reporting, the number of "ignores" a user has accumulated may be linked to them deserving of a blacklist or something. My rationale being that if someone is racking-up huge numbers of ignores (especially within a short amount of time) they [i]may[/i] be breaking the rules in some manner. I obviously can't go into specifics about how I think this would be presented in the report queue (not here anyway), but the general idea is that the community at large can indirectly generate a "community" report for a moderator to check out, but with no consequence to the users who have chosen to ignore the user if the moderator rejects the report. I think this could account for the hypothetical problem (albeit almost non-existent) of users not reporting those ignored users because the reporter can't see the possible offending content since they've ignored them. Thoughts?[/quote]But what if someone is mass-ignored but they never actually break the rules, they are just generally disliked or their posts are of no interest to a large sum of people. Yes, I know it is widely hypothetical but it is probable. A lot mentioned in this thread is hypothetical more than actuality. Just my input there, row-boat. ;)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam I also think ignoring should have a defined sunset. I agree that perhaps a dropdown menu with an "ignore for 1 month, 6 months, 1 year" set of options would be better than a permanent ignore. Perhaps multiple options wouldn't work, because I doubt people would ignore for a shorter duration than the longest option. I still think they're worth a shot though. I agree that it should not completely hide ignored users. It should collapse ignored replies just as the report button collapses them, but it would not require a certain threshold to collapse. Just one would suffice, as only the user who is ignoring will actually collapse it from their individual view. Perhaps Bungie should have another site beta to test something like this.[/quote]The only objection I would have to that is if it [i]didn't[/i] include an "ignore permanently" option. If I need to continually go back and "re-ignore" someone, it's just going to become a hassle, especially if only short-term ignore lengths were able to be chosen. There's one other idea that I'd like to bring up in regard to the reporting as well. I'd say it's a bad idea for an ignore feature to be linked to the report button, as people may want to ignore someone for a reason which isn't in the rules. So subsequent reports are wasteful for us (moderators). I think that's already been established in the thread though, so on to the main point. What if, instead of directly linked to reporting, the number of "ignores" a user has accumulated may be linked to them deserving of a blacklist or something. My rationale being that if someone is racking-up huge numbers of ignores (especially within a short amount of time) they [i]may[/i] be breaking the rules in some manner. I obviously can't go into specifics about how I think this would be presented in the report queue (not here anyway), but the general idea is that the community at large can indirectly generate a "community" report for a moderator to check out, but with no consequence to the users who have chosen to ignore the user if the moderator rejects the report. I think this could account for the hypothetical problem (albeit almost non-existent) of users not reporting those ignored users because the reporter can't see the possible offending content since they've ignored them. Thoughts?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam I also think ignoring should have a defined sunset. I agree that perhaps a dropdown menu with an "ignore for 1 month, 6 months, 1 year" set of options would be better than a permanent ignore. Perhaps multiple options wouldn't work, because I doubt people would ignore for a shorter duration than the longest option. I still think they're worth a shot though. I agree that it should not completely hide ignored users. It should collapse ignored replies just as the report button collapses them, but it would not require a certain threshold to collapse. Just one would suffice, as only the user who is ignoring will actually collapse it from their individual view. Perhaps Bungie should have another site beta to test something like this.[/quote] I like the idea of having an ignore button with a menu for how long to ignore someone. This would make the feature more flexible.

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  • Just cause I hate to see a thread like this die: I highly doubt we're going to see this feature implemented, as some have said, in a "trial". It isn't a game; there's no beta required. It's just a feature on a website. If it turns out to be site breakingly bad, it'll be worth the time to go in and remove the feature. [Edited on 12.19.2011 7:27 PM PST]

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  • Absolute rubbish, Ken. Disclaimer: [i]The above is a joke, just in case some person begins to think I'm being serious.[/i] OT: We need to test some of the ideas in here somehow. It'd be great for the community to come together over something such as this, in tinkering over Bungie.net, while waiting for Bungie to spill their soft words on Destiny. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Decimator Omega I don't go around quoting Bungie Employees and Forum Ninjas and "Worshiping them." That is what you do.[/quote] WAT I don't think you have ever seen any of my posts becuase I don't "worship" any of the employees or mods. That sounds weird. [/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Decimator Omega I don't go around quoting Bungie Employees and Forum Ninjas and "Worshiping them." That is what you do.[/quote] WAT I don't think you have ever seen any of my posts becuase I don't "worship" any of the employees or mods. That sounds weird. OT: This thread is interesting. A trial run of this feature would be good to gather statistics of who people block, for what reason, etc. But that is a lot for the webteam to do and make for a problem that isn't really "there". I mean it is good to respond to users posts, just not enough people or users are effected for this to be useful. it is only a certain group of a few users, everyone else is fine. [Edited on 12.19.2011 12:28 PM PST]

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  • If anything, this thread has not only given alot of us enjoyment, its also given a list of ignorable candidates.

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  • This thread has a few greats examples of where an ignore feature would be somewhat beneficial. While i easily just ignored some posts, i admit it was annoying scrolling for so long. Man oh man.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I would like to point out that you must be a pretty large fan to come here, make an account, and post. Calling someone a "fan boy" when posting on Bungie.net seems kind of hypocritical. [/quote]Nah. I don't think you understand. I joined the site to check out my Halo 3 stats, see the mains, and look at private groups. Plus I kept this account linked to unlock Recon in Halo 3. I don't go around quoting Bungie Employees and Forum Ninjas and "Worshiping them." That is what you do. I'm gonna make this my last post because this is getting off-topic. The only reason why I still log on here is because I'm here for Private Groups and to laugh at The Flood. It really has nothing to do with Bungie anymore and I never defended their games. I thought Halo 3 was cool but I strongly disliked Reach. Overall I miss Halo 2's online which also wasn't perfect and balanced, but it was fun.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam I also think ignoring should have a defined sunset. I agree that perhaps a dropdown menu with an "ignore for 1 month, 6 months, 1 year" set of options would be better than a permanent ignore. Perhaps multiple options wouldn't work, because I doubt people would ignore for a shorter duration than the longest option. I still think they're worth a shot though. I agree that it should not completely hide ignored users. It should collapse ignored replies just as the report button collapses them, but it would not require a certain threshold to collapse. Just one would suffice, as only the user who is ignoring will actually collapse it from their individual view. Perhaps Bungie should have another site beta to test something like this.[/quote]I'm on board with the collapse vs hide, but I don't like the idea of hiding someone's posts for longer than 1 month. Maybe shorter, but not longer. I just envision everyone going hide crazy and the forums seemingly dying. It's one thing to hide someone that is repeatedly annoying...but being able to hide peeps that just happened to miss their morning coffee is grounds for everyone on this site to be "ignored". We all get moody and have been douches from time to time. ...what if the 'report' button functioned the same (along with the same penalties for abuse) but after you have personally reported the same person 2 or 3 times you get the option for a temp ignore?

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  • I also think ignoring should have a defined sunset. I agree that perhaps a dropdown menu with an "ignore for 1 month, 6 months, 1 year" set of options would be better than a permanent ignore. Perhaps multiple options wouldn't work, because I doubt people would ignore for a shorter duration than the longest option. I still think they're worth a shot though. I agree that it should not completely hide ignored users. It should collapse ignored replies just as the report button collapses them, but it would not require a certain threshold to collapse. Just one would suffice, as only the user who is ignoring will actually collapse it from their individual view. Perhaps Bungie should have another site beta to test something like this.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] evilcam Once again, this topic is just about one specific user, instead of the topic at hand. Frankly, I think this is the best evidence that we could make use with an ignore feature. A good percentage of people in this thread don't seem to be capable of NOT talking about a specific user. I guess this has gone as far as its going to go. Opinions have been given, thoughts on this or that have been contemplated. The Webteam has what they need, as do the rest of us. Its been nothing but repeated and labored points for about 10 pages, with another 20 or so almost solely about how Ken doesn't like this idea or people don't like him. This is done as far as I'm concerned. I've asked multiple times that we stop focusing on specific users. I won't ask again.[/quote] For what it's worth, it wasn't about one specific user until that one specific user decided to crusade against this idea with no other basis or argument than the notion that he would be blocked by many, many people.

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  • That makes sense. After about a month that person you ignore will have moved on...hopefully. ~Delta [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JoeSki73 I don't like the idea of a perm ignore option, but I do like the idea of a temporary ignore option. 'Ignore "xxxxxx" for 1 month'[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JoeSki73 I don't like the idea of a perm ignore option, but I do like the idea of a temporary ignore option. 'Ignore "xxxxxx" for 1 month'[/quote]A certain quota of users you can ignore per (week/month/year) with an expiring duration (with limited options in regards to the ability to repeatedly ignore someone) is an idea which I could agree with more so than the one currently being proposed.

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  • I don't like the idea of a perm ignore option, but I do like the idea of a temporary ignore option. 'Ignore "xxxxxx" for 1 month'

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] dibbs089 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Yax Shut your hole, ED. Ken is right. If he bothers you so much just ignore him.[/quote]It seems he needs a feature in order to be able to do that. I've expressed my displeasure about this idea multiple times and I'm relatively sure that what I'm going to say has been said already (but I'm not going to read through 29 pages...sorry) but I'd like to address what I view as the strongest point for the system. That is, that users, through exercising the bare minimum of self moderation can just ignore others anyway (not read their posts, not respond to their posts, not interact with them in any way shape or form). Going by that argument, then, an ignore feature is just a continuation of things that naturally occur already. It's a fair argument but one that I cannot agree with. We should not be making it easier for people to ignore one another on this forum. Just because it can be done in some form now does not mean that it is right to implement a tool which will make it easier. Shockingly (and I mean really shockingly) Ken has eloquently provided a majority of the reasoning I believe as to why this feature shouldn't be implemented. I cannot stress enough how wrong (imo) it would be for users to have the ability to remove certain parts of the community they simply didn't want to see. I'm well aware the the webteam has tried to make this community taliored towards the individual; towards promoting self moderation and a community reflective of thier interests. I beg you not to promote that goal by implementing a feature like this. Just some thoughts that didn't really fit into the above paragraphs... -[u]Promoting this feature as a way to prevent "flame wars" is admitting that a majority of users would be incapable of engaging with others with different opinions rationally[/u]. -Furthermore by the amount of people which disagree with one another on these forums (and in this even in this thread) we have seen that people in fact [i]don't[/i] want to ignore those they disagree with but would rather have a public debate and try to embarrass one another (as silly as that is). [/quote]Nope, I don't require a feature....just thought I'd vent while I had the chance....OT:I wonder if it would be possible to do like a dry run of the feature and then say a month from starting the test come back and discuss the experience. No one ever got shot for experimenting. The Flood seems to be doing that themselves. You disagree with one thing and all of a sudden you're at gunpoint with someone's crap. No one wants to admit it but can you really deny that a lot of users might need someone to hold their hand?

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  • Once again, this topic is just about one specific user, instead of the topic at hand. Frankly, I think this is the best evidence that we could make use with an ignore feature. A good percentage of people in this thread don't seem to be capable of NOT talking about a specific user. I guess this has gone as far as its going to go. Opinions have been given, thoughts on this or that have been contemplated. The Webteam has what they need, as do the rest of us. Its been nothing but repeated and labored points for about 10 pages, with another 20 or so almost solely about how Ken doesn't like this idea or people don't like him. This is done as far as I'm concerned. I've asked multiple times that we stop focusing on specific users. I won't ask again.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TTL Snatch250 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 Truthfully, I really don't see any reason why people can't just not respond to a topic. [/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=68580126]It's hard to argue with yourself. Lead by example.[/url] [/quote] I don't see what you are saying. OP was doing something illegal and I was giving him advice to prevent the ban that I guess still happened. [/quote] What I'm saying is that you lack the ability to ignore an obvious violation of the rules. Which so far, is your only solution to the problem with the forums. How do you expect every single user of Bungie.net to ignore people like that, if you cant manage to do it yourself? Feeding the trolls is as bad as being a troll. Now imagine that you had that person blocked for a similar offence. You wouldn't have posted in that thread, because you wouldn't have seen it. It would be locked, the thread author banned, and everything continues just fine. I don't see whose feelings get hurt here, or whose experience was made worse because of it. I only see positives. My experience is better. I also cannot see the downside of the people who flame you, ignoring you. I have seen you post about people not considering your feelings when they make a comment about 5 times now. If the bullies cant see you, they cant bully you. If you ignore the bullies, they cant hurt your feelings any more. Your experience gets better, since you would only be dealing with people who aren't bullies, and the bullies only get to deal with each other. Sounds perfect to me. Am I missing something?

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