I used this argument against light levels in another post. It will be copy and pasted. Feel free to copy and use it freely. "I wasnt going to explain this since i thought it was obvious. This idea of level through gear has been done before and failed. So let me explain. As a design standpoint its terribly inefficient and limiting torward a character. Usually level is designed through time and experience. You kill x number of enemies you will get stronger and improve as you level up. The more time you put in the stronger you become. A very fair formula that people enjoy. Now with level be directed torwards gear aquisition. You now set yourself up on requiring luck. Someone may lets say do a raid once and get all the peices to get to 30. Then another no matter how many hours. No matter how much he trys he cannot produce the gear he needs. Luck is fine for random items and such and many rpgs follow this modle. But few make major weapons and armor that are needed to progress as luck. Maybe you can get away with it in op items that make you vastly powerful but not simple progressionary items. That get you to just play content. Then theres the limiting factor it has on your character. Most rpgs have a system of skills and abilities that you gain with levels. Now in destiny it is seperate from your level and gains exp on its own. Sadly this means once you get everything there is nowhere to expand or evolve. In most rpgs you gain skills as you level up. When you take away this model people get mad when you do such things like a new set gear. Im trying not to say gear wipe. Because usually in these type of games as you gain levels you learn more skills and abilities and your character evolves even further. In destiny you level up to 30 but you feel the same as when you were 20. Nothing evolves. There is no character progression. It is a true get us on a hamster wheel design. It only allows you to play higher level content that feels the same when you get there and your not any better to boot. I hope this has opened your eyes. But ill prob get somebody out there to tell me im wrong and light levels is one of the best ideas since slice bread." So basically the gist of it is that i believe the light level system is a terrible progression model and that by destiny 2 it should be changed to a more stable fair leveling up system. Which allows characters to evolve. Obviously its too late now since it is the core gameplay of destiny one but i hope that bungie is smart enough to listen.

Here's a thought. Allow us to use motes of light on any fully upgraded armor to increase the light level permanently for that piece +1, to a maximum of the current light level max. This would allow customization opportunities far and beyond the current system, without removing the light system itself. You could expand it further by adding a similar system for weapons, where the motes increase the attack rating. Exotics and raid gear would still have their place, as they would have the best stats and perks, but any armor/weapon could become viable for use in end game content (raids, nightfalls, IB, etc.). The exotics and raid gear would also be better because they would require no motes, just fully upgrading to reach the cap. This would also reward experience gains, encouraging players to continue to grind xp to gain motes. Right now the mote of light is the most useless currency, and this would make them valuable. As I said, just a thought. Though looking at it now, I think it's a good one.

Bump totally agree

The gaming industry leaders don't seem to understand that we WANT to make decisions. Such as picking one of three meaningfully different classes...

D&D online tried this... It failed miserably, and the company publicly apologized. I think Destiny will end up the same. Id hope sooner rather than later...

I agree, OP. RNG drops and gear should never determine character level. Scrap the Light levels, bring back Experience. raise the level cap.

That's like saying take prestige out of cod. It's part of the game

Its a new system of lvling up thats different from other games Why do you want them to do it a certain way just because thats how other games do it?

What if all lvl 20+ gear could be leveled up along a path like a skill tree. Each set of armor has different perks that compliment a specific play style. Each set of armor can be leveled up to lvl 30+ and getting each of your pieces to that point will in turn increase your "level". If you want to focus on grenade cooldown instead of faster/more powerful melee... swap your armor out for a new set a piece at a time(if not readily available) and level IT up to the point you can use that set in the raid. If each defense upgrade were spread apart a bit more or there were more upgrades with less of a defense increase.. spanned across from lvl 20 - Current Cap. People could then keep their favorite looking gear all throughout their characters career. With new perks being added for armor each time a dlc comes out. Raid gear having perks and such to help make that raid/enemy type easier to defeat. I mean c'mon, back me up here. Have a titan set focused n shoulder charge and shotgun ammo upgrades, then swap out for gear that will increase the duration of your Defender's bubble. Increasingly effective the higher along the armor 'tree' you go. (EDIT: These are just examples of how armor trees could work, people can mix and match pieces from different sets and level those up to keep their unique look and enjoy the options to play around with different combinations on a functionality level. Maybe even if you like the look of specific armor... but don't like th perks, swap them out at a vendor for new rerolled upgrades and perks... maybe chosen?) (EDIT 2: OH sorry it just came to me, hits many birds with one stone here... What if you didn't like the appearance of an armor, but loved the perks? Transmogrifying. The act of keeping the stats of a specific set of gear, but replacing the appearance for something you prefer. Giving players their much needed individuality to look how they wish, the perks/progression they want. All tied up in a nice little bow of fair effort vs. payoff. There is truly no downside to this progression system. You work to level up, you level up. No skipping lines, no wasted gear. All on a level playing field, with the exception of what perks you choose... and how much/well you can play.) Continued: This can be applied to weapons as well, any exotics/legendarys you have. Hell even commons(maybe difficult for bungie) could all be leveled up the same way we did our precious Husk of the Pit. You maxed out your thorn? New DLC? New damage upgrade perk, requires resources to upgrade(exotic shard or what have you), but none of your progress is lost. It just levels up with you. Maybe down the line exotics could have improved perks and the like to keep them valuable.

This is actually a good idea. An actual XP system to get to max level. It is the classic way RPGs should go. It's effective and it caters to ALL play styles. You don't have to be forced to do a raid you don't necessarily want to do over and over. Part of why world of warcraft is successful (yes it's dying) is because you took your leveling into our own hands.

Yeah countless games have tried this system, and each one either failed or was pretty much forced to change it. >.> lord of the rings i forgot the name. Yeah this system is god awful and shouldn't be used as it gives very little choice of anything. And you never really progress in the game. This system ruins all sense of progression what's the point of leveling up, if as soon as i take my armor off i am just as weak as i was before. Also if that wasn't bad enough the whole thing with motes is a slap in the face. It's practically saying your not a legend you have only progress to a point and your character is incapable of getting stronger. Last time i checked there isn't a limit to power and a legend is a legend for a reason.

I understand your points and while I like what you're saying I can't help but feel like there's no way this would ever happen as its become such a staple to the game. Look how kids reacted when they had to re level their exotics...

Didn't read your whole post, but bump because I hate having level progression tied to gear that I get based on RNG.

I wish.. just correct in destiny 2

I'll take actual stats like Damage increase, Health increase and damage reduction that actually works over light level any day. We'll be able to see if a player is properly geared rather than not having any idea if the person knows what he is doing before bringing him to the group.

Get rid of light levels? PLEASE! Light levels were the worst idea in the world. Gear should make you stronger like any rpg or mmo, but it shouldn't dictate your level

There's this MMO called World of Warcraft and in this game you get gear by doing Dungeons (Strikes), Raids or PVP (Crucible Tokens). The maximum level right now is level 100, which everyone must reach before being able to do Dungeons on Hard mode. The way they define a person's strength in numbers is through something the Community came up with years a go. It's called Item Level. It's the average value of the items you carry to visually show the strength of your equipment. Now years later it's a standard implementation in World of Warcraft and to do certain things like the new Hard mode Dungeons or Raid you need a minimum Item level. Now if you change Item level to Light Level you get exactly the same thing.We all are level 20 guardians but our gear makes us stronger and if you have the best gear there is you are Light level 32. In world of warcraft you'd be Item Level 650 or something. So either we are all level 20 Guardians with the maximum Item level of 12 or we are level 32 Guardians it doesn't make any difference.