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Edited by ConcreteHawk: 11/29/2014 8:39:13 PM
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Bungie... look at Bastion.

I apologize for the upcoming rant. Bastion is completely unbalanced. It is the worst map I've ever played on any game, ever. How do you even make it this unbalanced. In the beginning, you just run to B and there's a cool firefight in the middle. Someone wins, and control of B goes back and forth. However, when someone gets heavy ammo, the game is over no matter what. There's no way to actually get into B when 3 guys all have heavy ammo. So you just throw yourselves at them, trying to retake control. By the time the heavy ammo runs out, more spawns. And B is protected. So protected. There are 4 ways in, and all 4 are extremely narrow and easily defendable. B is a fortress with heavy ammo spawns in there. I know it, because I've controlled the whole thing by myself with ease. This map is ridiculous. A and C are okay, if your team maintains control of these points the whole time, the Control bonus might be able to balance out the slaughterhouse at B. B is literally control, except this control is governed by who happens to gain control when heavy ammo is inbound. And before you say "Get better at Crucible", I played Rusted Lands yesterday. I went 32 Kills with 9 deaths. Not amazing, but with the other two guys on my team performing well, we destroyed the team. Next game with almost identical teams (the other team had one different person), we were decimated by around 7000 points because they grabbed the heavy ammo in B and just ran through us with their heavy weapons. We tried grabbing the other two heavy ammo crates but B is so protected you have to walk into their fortress just to aim at them. It's absolutely ridiculous. Bungie, you had 8 freakin years to make this game, and it still is amazingly terrible. In fact, I quit every match on Bastion now because I just don't even want to be a part of this extremely flawed map. It's terrible. There are two solutions to this major PvP problem. 1.) Remove the heavy ammo spawn at point B. That way there is a possibility to go in, either storming in with your whole fireteam or with your super, and retake B zone. This way the game still has a possible flip of the control, and it's still fun 2.) Move zone B from the tight, confined upper level, to the pathway underneath it, where the bridge has given out. It will be exposed, and vulnerable, so if you do get heavy ammo, there are multiple ways to retake control, whether it be sniping from a distance, or maybe dropping on B from above with a shotgun. Whatever the solution may be, I really want to see a change on this map. I mean, you change Blind Watch, when I never had a problem with that map at all, and ignore a map that really needs help. BUNIGE, FIX THIS MAP I'm open to any critism, any hate, any meaningless posts, but I will ignore them. If you do have a post that contributes to this topic, I will pay attention to your comments. Edit 1: There are some great strategies that you can use in order to chase them out, but most involve teamwork. This is quite difficult when your team either does not listen, or does not communicate.

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  • Edited by TokiMcBongRip: 12/1/2014 11:28:27 AM
    You really only need a good team and one point to win! Points are earned for kills not how many captures you have . so if your team takes b and the whole team bunkers down and let's the other team come to you you could easily win by mowing them down. Sure its only 100 points a kill instead of 200 or 300 but trust me the other team won't get points unless they kill so they will be charging at you over and over again. Me and a team have done this and it works! So just take b fortify it up watch every entrance and don't cluster up so the whole team wipes from a super.

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      Yeah why the -blam!- did they change blind watch? I enjoyed sniping theough those windowa that are now closed off. Now sniper rifles are like only for first light and bastion

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    • Edited by HoboMegatron: 12/4/2014 3:43:36 PM
      Umm Maybe I'm wrong here, but if B is locked down maybe you should just let them have it. If you don't go in they'll have to come out eventually. Force them to come to you and pick them off when they do. Or mount a glorious assault that will live through the ages. Make it epic, and take as many of them down with you as you can. p.s. I'd recommend the the first option. Also you and as many teammates as possible should grab heavy ammo from the other heavy ammo spawn point.

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    • Edited by aem: 12/4/2014 8:55:06 AM
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      I feel that bastion is fine. If B is locked out and you're at A, you just have to go around or take A. Too many people try to fight through that hallway and that's the biggest mistake. By the time their heavy ammo is used they're up by 3k. You either need to force movement away from B by going to A or again weaken their numbers by attacking from behind, giving your aggressive teammates an easier chance to fight through that hallway. I think more changes are required on a map like blind watch . The distance between C and B is not proportioned to that of A. It takes less then 10 seconds from B to get to C and you're either right next to it, or shooting it from above. Being Alpha team you're already at a disadvantage. I understand that fighting for C is one many would argue as to flip the respawns, but I just don't think any map should make you do this without having the ability to hold down B from your point not an option. But yeah. For Bastion - go around or go for A.

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    • [b][i]Earth[/i][/b] [i]DEFEND[/i] [b]exodus blue[/b] C + B [b]rusted land[/b] C + B [b]twilight gap[/b] C + B [b][i]Moon[/i][/b] [i]DEFEND[/i] [b]first light[/b] A + B [b][i]Venus[/i][/b] [i]DEFEND[/i] [b]shores of time[/b] C + B [b][i]Mars[/i][/b] [i]DEFEND[/i] [b]bastion[/b] C + B [b]blind watch[/b] C + B [b]fire base delphi[/b] A + B none of it's going to work if someone from your team captures the third point make the spawns flip..

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      • Can't get B? Well, why not take A + C? Gasp, a solution!

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        • I'll give you a little tip that might help you look at this a different way. B is meant to be a very difficult point to take, in any map. it is absolutely no different. The key is to take B + one other point and then just feed on the points as they come at you time and time again on B. Firebase Delphi - Always a cluster -blam!- at B, defend B and C and win the game Blind Watch - B and C again, easy win (this map is very one sided) Shores of Time - Guess what, B + C again to win this with ease. B is meant to be the main point of contention in any map it seems. The sooner people realise that you only need to hold 2 to win rather than flipping the spawns unfavorably all the time, the better

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          • You have it figured out sir, I do the exact same thing with this level and First Light its unfortunate that we lose combat rating because we don't want to play a shitty level, at least it doesn't matter much, I'll just keep backing out, f{_}ck it

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          • Balanced is not the same as symmetrical. There are advantages playing from both sides, learn to use the map to your advantage.

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            • It's unbalanced but not because of the heavy ammo, but because the team spawning at a must filter down a tiny corridor in single file like lambs to the slaughter. The radar nullifies flanking. If you can win the battle for b flag though, the heavy ammo is your prize, and a great prize it is. On a sort of related note I'm amazed that in so many control games I play I'm the only one rushing b flag from the get go. The first phase of map control is far more important than the irrelevant 150 points you get for having 2 extra people capping your home flag at the beginning.

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              • hey you think Bastion's bad? well what about Blind Watch you mentioned? it's basically set up that whoever controls C wins lol

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                • Once heavy ammo drops you say -blam!- that shit and cap a and c post up exits from b with a sniper and wreck, choose a side (a obviously and cap b) now you have superior map control. If the other team rushes and captures b you do not have to throw yourselves at shotgun whores camping it, again bypass b and cap c defend it if they come then cap b. If they decide to try and flip spawns and go for a then let them take it and easily cap b. Rinse repeat.

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                • Edited by th0rg0d: 11/30/2014 3:34:41 PM
                  I like the location of B, but you are right. The Heavy ammo spawn needs to be moved. I'm still of the mind that heavy ammo needs to have 3-4 spawn locations for each side, and it randomly spawns between those areas. I don't like having to camp the heavy ammo spawn.

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                  • On maps like this, my team doesn't bother with the B point and just focus on holding A and C.

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                    • It's just too big of a map and by the time you get back to the flag trying to defend/attack a minute or two has gone by

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                      • Yeah the heavy ammo spawn in zone b is pretty cheap. Whenever I cap zone b, I just stay there and hunker down with some other teammates and let the kills roll in. And then heavy ammo spawns...

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                        • No one sane plays bastion anyways I just pull up my ghost, make them think I'm summoning my sparrow, and leave along with about 3 others who do the same

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                          • I think B is good where it is at. I also think heavy should not spawn on B, simply because it grants the team that holds B the ability to hold it down. If you manage to get the other heavy ammo, it isn't difficult to kill the guys camping B. Just rock a rocket launcher and since B is mostly surrounded by walls and has tight corridors, placing an easy rocket shot will be easy. Also I don't like the fact that vehicles can easily access B and post up in there. Just some ideas and constructive criticism, nice thread through.

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                            • It can play out that way. Cracking point B isn't as difficult as you make it seem, though. If the opposing team is camped at B grab the other heavy ammo and dump rockets into the room. Snipers can shut down the two main entrances, and striker/bladedancer/voidwalker supers basically clear the room in a single shot. Its also possible to get a pike in there. What they did to Blind Watch during iron banner is pretty -blam!-ed up, though.

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                              • Supers, your own heavy ammo from the other two heavy ammo points, not running smack into the jaws of death willy nilly; all viable strategies

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                                • This map would be better if they removed vehicles on it. Even then, this map is way too large for 6v6.

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                                  • There are three heavy ammo spawns, if they are all getting b, or the majority, your team should be getting c and a or....supers, or....let them sit and rot at b, control the other two points; force them to come out of their bottlenecks (they work both ways).

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                                    • I really like the idea of removing the heavy spawn on B. I question why Bastion is the only map with three heavy spawns anyway. Even if it is the largest map, three heavies for six players is a bit much.

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                                      • I start cussing the moment it pops up on the screen. The only thing worse is being dropped into the middle of a match there and you're already losing.

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                                        • When I saw in the update notes that one of the maps had been re assessed and control points moved I was so sure it was bastion! Nope. One of the best things about IB was that bastion and the moon map weren't included, I truly hate those maps. The moon one is much more balanced but is just a map for snipers. Bastion is the only map I just quit on now.

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                                          • Use Supers to make them lose their heavy ammo, or pick up heavy ammo at your flag spawn and use rocket launchers to kill them.

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