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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
9/21/2014 10:00:04 PM
17

Supers NEED Some Kind of Counterplay

I like all of your proposed changes.

9

I like some of your proposed changes.

9

I love at least one of your proposed changes.

1

I dislike the changes, but agree with the message.

12

I disagree, Supers should be broken OP.

61

Anybody who's familiar with RTS's, fighting games and MOBAs, such as DOTA and League of Legends, on a competitive level knows that these games work and stay competitive because every strategy and offensive move has potential counterplay from the opposing side. Essentially, game balance works like one giant, skill-based version of rock, paper, scissors. You have to analyze the enemy, and yourself, and know what you can to do work against their kit, and how to counter the options that they have against you. In Halo, if the enemy team had a sniper rifle, just stay near cover, try to minimize the range between you and him, and suppress him with fire so he can't stay scoped in. If they have an energy sword, stay away from corners and close quarters, and use teamwork to neutralize the holders of power weapons. If they have rockets or overshield, position yourself in a way that you aren't instadead if they walk around the corner. In League of Legends, lack of counterplay is taken very seriously, and a champion is immediately nerfed if there's an aspect about them that gives them a free upper hand. It's the most widely streamed game on Twitch for global competitive reasons. Anything close to a one shot kill is unheard of. Millions of players (both casual and competitive) would collectively sh*t their pants if there was a champion with any sort of one shot kill, or ultimate ability that gave them a free kill whenever it's up. In fighting games, there are no gigantic unblockable projectiles. Everything needs to be calculated, timed, and carried out with precision and intent of following up. Even super moves are dodgable, and blockable to an extent, and many require you to be very close and execute a complicated input to carry out. The only exception I can think of is the Final Smash in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. And this is why most players prefer Melee, Project M, and why everybody I know disables Smash Balls when they play. In Call of Duty, anything with enough damage to earn free kills with a highly reduced chance for enemy retaliation before they die is earned from kill streaks, and most of those things (attack helicopters, bullet vests, counter UAV (radar jammer), and IMS (motion-activated, intelligent munitions system)) aren't the end of the world. This is because the game offers counterplay, in the form of perks, and the fact that things like the counter UAV and IMS only kill you if you're careless and unaware. Even without a perk that keeps you hidden from air support, you can hide from even the most destructive killstreaks in the game by simply staying indoors, or shooting them out of the sky in a matter of ten seconds. Even without a perk like Sitrep, which allows you to see enemy explosives through walls, you can simply avoid an IMS blast by walking back around the corner before it goes off. It's sad to see a Bungie title with multiplayer less competitive and balanced than Call of Duty. While the point streaks in Call of Duty that carry through death (like Destiny's Supers) grant things like Riot Shields, radar jammers, ammo drops, and ballistic vests, the point streaks in Destiny (which also builds up over time) give you UNDODGABLE, UNCOUNTERABLE, RANGED, one-shot kills, and things like a bubble shield of invincibility. You can't double jump away from a Nova Bomb or Hulk Smash, and that is complete garbage. At least you can outlast the Golden Gun timer, and strafe to avoid shots knowing it needs to be aimed precisely. At least you can kill the Blade Dancers before they get to you, but the damage resistance makes it near impossible, even with shotgun shells and melees to the face. You can outlast and outplay Warlocks with the Sun Song Super, but The Nova Bomb and both of the invincibility-granting Titan Supers are completely ridiculous. In the fast-paced, closed quarters Control games, it's suicide to run around a corner. Not only do shotguns 100% dominate B Flag on every map, but if an enemy has their super up (which is unavoidable, as it's earned over time and not halted by deaths) then there is ZERO chance for surviving, or retaliation. I only play Skirmish now for this reason. Bungie, if you ever want competitive players to take this game seriously, please do something about the Supers. They are the most unbalanced, overpowered thing I've seen in online gaming since I started playing on Xbox Live about ten years ago. I'm not saying that out of spite, because I like the concept of Supers, but the fact that an idiot can go 0-11 and earn a free four man multikill, is completely absurd and shameful to the competitive community that you, yourselves, bred with Halo. Like I said, even the high killstreaks in Call of Duty don't reward you with such blatant damage terrorism. Here are proposed ideas that would really help the Crucible be more free of bologna, and give players the satisfying ability to outplay, predict, and escape from enemy Supers: -Mark enemies using their Super abilities in Yellow on the radar. Vehicles have their own radar ping, and a vehicle isn't as big of a deal as a Bladedancer. -Give visual cues to show if an enemy's Super is up. If my reticle turns yellow when a Titan runs around the corner, I'll bolt it out of the room and toward the safety of the rest of my team. This would be really nice, because it would at least give a little bit of a chance to players with good reflexes and awareness. -DON'T GIVE SUPERS AUTOMATIC, EASY CHARGE OVER TIME. If I could see one change in how Supers work in the Crucible, this would be it. Make the meter fill with kills, objectives, and assists, and make it drop by several points on death. Kill streaks should be emphasized to earn Supers much faster than somebody with a 1:1 K/D or below. Decrease the amount of energy earned from assists, and make energy harder to earn, and focused on the BIG points. -Nerf the individual Super abilities. I don't think it should have to come to this, since there are other ways to offer fairness and counterplay, but reduce the Titan Shield strength, the Hulk Smash blast radius, the Nova Bomb blast radius and missile speed, and give Bladedancers unchanged damage immunity and health regeneration from their non-Super form. Supers should be saved for opportune times and, like ultimate abilities in fighting games and MOBAs, have the need to be carried out with precision and intent. Only one time have I seen somebody use a Titan Smash or a Nova Bomb without getting a kill. At least you need map control to get two rockets, and those aren't as strong as Supers, which you earn for free over time, and can't kill yourself with. I get that Supers should be "super", but that should NOT equate to a free kill with no chance of escape or retaliation. Even with pinpoint accuracy, robotic reflexes, and double jumps, it's impossible to stop somebody using their Super from killing you. It shatters any illusion of good players being rewarded for playing well. You're on a 10-kill streak? Well have fun being Nova Bombed by an 0-16 player around a corner.

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  • Edited by Erijian: 11/24/2014 1:41:03 AM
    A well timed Blink or Glide lets you avoid the Fist of Havoc and Nova Bomb..The more annoying Supers are Blade Dancer because they get a stupid amount of melee assist and they gain height rapidly if they use it while you're above them, and the Golden Gun because it also gets a stupid amount of aim assist. The others don't, why should these.

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