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#feedback

Edited by P4NCH0theD0G: 10/24/2014 8:40:34 PM
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Suros Regime on Sale again... and the Consequences

Wow, Bungie. Suros Regime. Again. Because there weren't enough people running around with it. Do you guys even read your own posts? "There should be no single best answer to the question: What do I bring into the Crucible?" And yet, here's the apparent "single best answer" on sale. Again. For everyone who missed it. So we ALL can run around with it. Suros Regime, the probably single most used exotic Primary in the Crucible. Probably the single most used GUN in the Crucible since it was sold the first time. Most likely the single most effective Primary Weapon in the Crucible when it comes to versatility. @Bungie Twitter asked yesterday what people want from Xur and about 80% of the hundreds of tweets wanted the Suros Regime - and of course, there can be absolutely no tangible reason for that. That alone should have been the only needed reason to not sell it again; and sort-of-proof that it's still perceived as OP (at least until we get bigger maps with longer sightlines, less cramped control points or more flinching when hit by SRs, PRs and HCs). You said you wanted variety. Now you've doomed variety. And the funny thing is, everyone who can will buy the Regime (except for me, I have my pride), then everyone will use it, then the people who don't have it (and this is and will be a "thing", People with the Regime vs. People without the Regime as evidenced by the little Twitter campaign) will complain about it, then you, Bungie, will act all surprised about that, think a few weeks, and then, when everyone loves their Suros Regime and has it upgraded, you'll nerf the Suros Regime, quite drastically, and everyone will hate on you. Really, Bungie, sometimes you do make the oddest decisions. It's like you want all the hate. Well, this time, you deserve it. EDIT: For anyone who's interested in the numbers, here's a spreadsheet somebody made looking at the Mythoclast and the Suros post 1.0.2.2 http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2j7vmy/my_friend_made_a_spreadsheet_comparing_vex/ And a video comparing first the Mythoclast pre- and post-patch, then the Mythoclast post vs. the Suros post http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2jk9fn/vex_mythoclast_vs_suros_regime_before_and_after/ EDIT 2: Since a lot of people seem to, as always, completely miss the point here (since the headline is not really what you think it is): I do respect your opinion (I don't much care for it, but there is respect), but while I do believe the Suros is too effective at too long a range (something exacerbated by the level design), I am not calling for a nerf. What I am confused and worried about are: - the way Bungie first stated that there should be variety in the Crucible, even acknowledged that the Suros Regime is still too powerful, then turn around and sell this proclaimed "too powerful" weapon to everyone (and apparently the next point was an influence on that); - the way people asking for the Suros on Twitter apparently influenced Xur's stock (and there must be a reason why a huge majority was asking for that particular gun, whether it's for true reasons or just perception); - the almost inevitable nerf of the Suros that will come out of it, resulting in an even more drastic negative backlash from the community than what happened with the Mythoclast; It feels like Bungie and Destiny turn into a split personality, trying to appease everyone - and that never turns out well. EDIT 3: A few more points: Shotguns are indeed wide-spread - but they are (except for one) Special Weapons, and they only really fill a niche. It's a great fill for that particular niche mind you, but that's more about people's playstyles and the map-design. If you get close enough to a Shotgun, you die. There are quite a lot of tight corridors and corners for people to take full advantage of the Close-Range Shotguns, but there are equally a decent number of longer-range engagement places, and that is still something where ARs, especially the Suros, excel - even beat the designated medium/long-range guns like Scout-Rifles and Pulse Rifles. That ARs should beat those weapons at close-range is a given and understandable, but if any gun or gun-type can beat another in more than one range, there's a balancing issue. Suros Regime is a special case, as the "slower-shooting but more damage" perk in ADS turns it into a Rapid-Fire, Full-Auto Scout Rifle with a range that is adequate for most if not all engagements on the relatively small maps we have right now. Post 1.0.2.2 hotfix, the Suros does 36 Crit damage in the Crucible, and with the Hammer Forged Perk, it has a Range comparable to most legendary Scout Rifles. Yet, the fire-rate and stability are much higher than Scout Rifles (except maybe Vision of Confluence, but that one won't be for sale), making it even at those ranges more effective, as it can fire three or more shots in the time most Scouts can fire one. Scouts, post hotfix, do 76 critical damage, which makes the Suros do about 108 dmg in the time the Scout can do 76. Sure, it can be beaten. The Mythoclast could be beaten even pre-fix. But it takes a lot more work to beat it consistently, or to do well against it consistently, than it takes a Suros User to do well against you. And, as the graph and that video above show, it's not "useless" as many people claim after the patch. Personally, I don't ask for a Suros damage nerf, but I would like for either the ADS fire rate to be lowered, or for incoming headshots from SRs, PRs and HCs causing a lot more flinch, making it harder for Suros users to just stand there, take the punishment and still win at longer ranges (there's also that chance for Health Regeneration the Suros gives when dealing damage). A reduction in effective range should also be considered. It's a pity there are no private games to test this out in a controlled setting, but I am pretty confident of these numbers. And those numbers state a balancing issue with the Suros. Yet, giving people the chance to buy one of the undoubtedly most effective weapons in the game in pretty much every engagement outside of Shotgun range, will flood the game, especially PvP, with that same weapon. And that's a problem. Imagine you just started out, and in a few days, you'll go into the Crucible. Where A LOT of your deaths will come at the hands of the Suros Regime - at least compared to other primary weapons. Oh, sure, there will be other weapons, the Mythoclast, the Final Word, Monte Carlo, Hexcaster, Atheon's Epilogue, but the Suros will most likely be the most common. For most people, they'll see themselves as being left with only two options: Either you try and get one for yourself. But seeing as you'll need to be level 20 to use it and have a lot of luck to get it - unless they'll sell it a third time - that will lead to quite a lot of frustration when playing the Crucible (which will lead to people complaining about why they didn't get the chance to buy it). Or you'll ask for the (quite understandable) nerf to bring it in line with most other weapons. Now, that could lead into a whole different discussion about matchmaking and how it should take levels into account, but the fact of the Suros Regime's power still remains. And I can only speak for myself, but I would HATE to play a game where everyone runs around with the same weapons, the same built, the same everything, just to make things "even". And the really funny thing is, that all the people that are so happy now that they've gotten this great weapon that everyone used to kill them with, will perpetuate the cycle of inevitable balancing - and then will be very unhappy that their hoped-for "super-gun" will not be so super anymore. In the end, I feel that Xur selling any Primary Exotics was a huge mistake. Specials or Heavys, okay, but not Primary Weapons. Also, I really HATE how the Suros sounds when fired in ADS: Pew, pew, pew, pew ;)
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  • I just got the suros because I wanted it. Who care if everyone has it, whatever makes the player happy. I don't get killed by suros anymore then other weapons. I probably get killed by The Swarm and that Devil hand cannon? More than anything else. No weapons need nerfs, people just have an awful pvp match then go ranting. Suck it up when you suck and move on.

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    • I dont think xur should sell things twice he sould be a one time seller so if u ent got the coin at the time u not getting the loot insted u have to get it by luck or grinding plus xur is cheep u should bump his prices up to 33 or 40 strange coins cuz I allways have 15 or 20 strange coins left at the end of the week.

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      • I'd take my Shadow Price over Suros any day.

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        • Im sorry but your wrong about this issue. Hand cannons and scout rifles beat this auto rifle in pvp. If you have a skilled player with it yes it is hard to kill them. Quit complaining. Yes I have it and I use it. But get beat by the 2 weapons I listed alot. That y I switch to them when I see other people using the suros.

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        • For me, having a Suros is more a status thing than anything. I like its versatility, and I'm a big fan of the design (it reminds me of weapons from mass effect and Star Trek). Am I a bad person because I like it? My shadow price is close to maxed out ( a lot closer than my regime) but I use the regime anyways because I generally enjoy it. I'm not super hot at PVP but the game forces you to play so much of it for bounties (and exotic bounties) and the Suros just works good enough that I don't finish on the bottom of the scoreboard. I'm not running around rubbing it in people's faces because I know that if I wasn't using it my average would be lower, but I'm not ashamed to admit it either. If using the Regime makes me a noob, so be it. Losing all the time hurts the pride though.

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        • Edited by Pyrotech707: 10/26/2014 7:32:57 AM
          I have it of course but it is stupid they put it on sale again, for 40 strange coins maybe, it's OP, I would normally say it shouldn't be nerfed, it wasn't a problem in till every person started using it, In fact I think exotics should all be more powerful but if I hade a dollar for everytime someone killed me with that gun today I would have made a good profit today.

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          • A good player with a shingen or galahad can own an average player with a suros. Skill>>> gear. Time to get over it. If you need a gear advantage to win just accept you aren't great at it.

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          • Edited by London Lost Boy: 10/27/2014 6:30:43 PM
            I wonder how long before the Armamentium gets nerfed because of the double grenade perk?!

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          • Just another example of how pvp, and the whiney cry babies who seem to thrive on it will ruin another fun game. Doesn't matter that many of us with Suros don't pvp at all, and just want an adequate weapon for casual pve. Honestly if they nerf it just so the 10 year old CoD kids, and the pvp whiners can feel their e-peen pride is restored I'll be out of this sh!tty game and take my large amount of disposable income somewhere else.

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          • Edited by Rodimus1999: 10/27/2014 1:58:43 PM
            I picked mine up for pve since that is how you advance in this game. Sure, there will be more in pvp, but a good player will engage in a firefight that gives them the advantage. Up close with a shotgun or long range with a scout rifle. Let the Suros players kill each other in the middle ground until they switch weapons.

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          • Stop crying cause people got a similar gun,you sound like you need to play army men 3d,where you don't need to worry about anybody but yourself as it should be now.

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          • I dont play pvp.i brought it because im trying to get a weapons selection for each character.cannon auto fusion snipe heavy machine rocket and im getting close thanks in part to xur.i missed his first couple,one of which was regime,so glad it was back. I should have grabbed the red death while i had the chance too.just for the health it gives back.

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          • People will now stop whining about how it is too strong. Because now everyone will be carrying one. Was that Bungie's answer? We really need other effective guns. 100 guns in the game, and you can only really use a couple or your handicapping yourself. [b]CHEERS TO ANYONE USING SOMETHING DIFFERENT[/b]

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          • I was going to read this but then i relised it would take a year.

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            • Majority of the players are trash. But the regime can make up for lack of skill.

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            • I agree. But I don't mind. Half those people just want it for a collection. And other half suck at PVP. So yeah.[b] But still, too way too many SUROS is pvp, way too many. [/b]

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            • yer I agree xur shouldn't sell exotic weapons.it makes it devalued.BUT it's unfair to change the system now that we have benefited from it in my opinion.

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            • Theoretically it is only a matter of time until almost everyone has almost everything, and it is also unrealistic to assume otherwise. Xur only expedites the inevitable by shallow degree, what the big question is, would everyone be using the same suros if they had access to everything...?

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            • I got the Suros Regime mainly because A: It was on sale and im a weapons pack rat in this game and B: Im a heavy PVE player, any advantage that is offered to me, im going to snatch that up faster than a fat kid snatches a cupcake in a pastry store. Also remember that the "New and Improved" Iron Banner is quickly approaching us, (the one offering level 30 gear to help players who haven't had the solid chance of completing the raid get ready for the upcoming DLC here in December), where you're going to be seeing a LOT of high tier weapons and the like. Offering the Suros Regime is going to give players a fighting chance to fight for that gear against the deadly doom of the Universal Remote, the Mythoclast, and much more. Not to mention the RNG system is not a very kind one, so this also helps players who are having some really rotten luck in trying to get better gear for themselves.

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              • Dude its a video game. Let other people have fun too. If you worked to get it then cool you have your awesome story you can tell people about how you shot a bunch of guys and got something. Compared to hey I grinded for a couple days and got enough coins to buy it. People r stuck to their stories. More than one side to everything.

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              • Could it be that you are just not very good at PVP, and you are trying to find an excuse as to why you're not good? I just got suros. But even using a pulse rifle. I was still going positive and at the top of the charts against people using suros.

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              • Edited by GMRcris: 10/26/2014 12:42:20 AM
                Are you like new to competitive multiplayer gaming or something? Cause in the end everyone at s certain level winds up using the same guns, characters, etc...call of duty, halo, counter-strike, street fighter, etc... The only real issue was taken care of, the Vex was god tier, literally broken. Literally if you didn't have a Suro's at least, you didn't even stand a chance. The Suro's is easily one of the best, if not the best AR in the game, and overall probably the best choice. But the last word, hawk moon, etc...easily compete with the Suro's at mid rang if you aren't a scrub. That doesn't mean it needs a nerf or a real issue. AR's have been nerfed 2x already, doing so again risk nerfing them to death. Then what? Your all gonna use scout rifles or hand cannons, the what complain about that and get it nerfed? Nerf everything till every gun is unless and were just punching each other in crucible? How about instead of nerfing AR, we buff pulse rifles a bit? Since god knows they need to be and still basically never used cause their so bad. This game PvP is a AR dominate by nature, the map design caters to it, and unfortunately shotguns as well. The top tier hand cannons can easily compete with AR on most maps and if we had wider/larger maps we'd see more scout rifle usage.

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              • Edited by UmbrusNightshade: 10/25/2014 7:59:25 PM
                I agree with you on most of your points. Here's what I have to say on the subject: Suros REGIME seems to be the better choice when you compare it to my Exotic, Hard/Light. The reason I say this is because 9 times out of 10 when I go head to head against someone with the Regime I wind up the dead guy. Hard/Light requires headshots/crits because it has a very low Impact. Anyone who shoots in real life or has played any moderate amount of Shooters knows that body shots are far easier to hit than headshots. This is because a human/hominid's head is smaller than the bulk of his/her body. I'm not positive (though I'm fairly sure) but I believe that Suros REGIME has a higher Impact than Hard/Light. Now, I'm sure it has a lower Stability but when all that is required to kill is body shots, that evens itself out (especially since anyone skilled with an AR knows that burst firing it will often compensate for a lack of stability). Even with the Stability as high as you can get it on the Hard/Light it is still pretty hard to get constant headshots, especially when you are facing off against players who can sidestep, backstep, dodge, take cover, and jump. This makes a head to head confrontation almost always swing in favor of the Suros REGIME over the Hard/Light. My point here is that in PvP it makes more sense to use the Suros REGIME than the Hard/Light; but according to Bungie they want there to never be a time when one gun is the clear choice over another when it comes to Exotics. Between these two Auto Rifles there is a clear winner. That is why everyone wants Suros REGIME. I've seen very few people use Hard/Light. I'm good with the gun and I tend to have a positive K/D when playing PvP matches, but (honestly) I hate coming up against a team where at least one person has Suros REGIME (I hate it even worse when it seems the whole team has them) because unless I can keep them at a moderate range or I just plain get lucky, the REGIME bests my Hard/Light nearly every time. Perhaps Bungie should compare the two and make some tweaks if they truly want no one Exotic (especially within the same class) to be a clear choice over another one.

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                • Great thought out post. Suros hands down is the most popupar gun in Crucible. Im running a 3+ kd with a HC and here are my thoughts of the Suros Predicament. It stands out from other AR's very much so because of its high damage, low flinch rate, long range and stability. This sounds perfect right? Well it is for most people. Now take out the skill of the players and tell me what the best gun is. Suros right? Now have you outshot Suros with Vanquisher? Grim? Yes a good player will still beat a Suros user, but standing on stats alone Suros the best. It takes your average noob and makes him a little better. It's simply the safest gun to use on any map in crucible. Whens the last time you were killed by Atheons on the moon? How about Suros. Exactly. Atheons is what a AR should feel like, shreds up close, severe drop off from distance. Mind you I don't really care at this point, after the first time it was sold I continued my dominance with Handcannons and still do. However the sound of Suros annoys me as does it excessive use/relying on by other players.

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                • Great post! U pretty much hit all the main reasons destiny's devs seem to have a schizophrenic approach to the game.

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                • So, why do I best every Suros Regime user with a Super Pox Vlo? Care to comment on that?

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