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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Phantom139: 10/24/2014 6:47:51 PM
373

Why you SHOULD consider buying the Destiny DLC.

So by now, most of you have seen some people come onto these forums and make fools of themselves with these wild theories and post their silly "messiah's" video as their only proof to these theories, and I've honestly been having a cakewalk of laughter here in terms of this, and then they attacked me with words, so now it's time to take the gloves off here and punish them with the truth. They cite a video of why you shouldn't buy the DLC, so it's only fitting that you read my post on why you should buy the DLC packs. So let's get to it. First off, that introduction you read there will be the only bashing I do in this post, I'm done with long rant filled posts that usually catch the attention of some people as pure negativity. This post will have absolutely none of that, I'm only going to present the facts, and discuss them and I'll let common sense take over from there. Personally, I would have done better with my own counter-video, but to be honest, most of you I believe are tired of seeing go to 'x' Youtube page, watch, like & subscribe, so no, I don't want you to do that, just give this a good read. :) So most of you have at least seen a few of my posts or have read them, and some of you may not know everything about me. I run my own independent game development company. I have numerous years of programming experience, as well as experience in design and implementation from some small projects I have worked on or with, so you can trust me when I say that I know how games "work" internally. So, let's start with breaking down the most "shot at" point, which is Destiny's currently lacking story. Some of you know, and others don't know, that the lead writer of the story for Destiny left Bungie shortly after the first E3 trip that Bungie took, where they revealed a video of gameplay and talked about some mechanics in the game. Why he left is unknown to us, but what we do know is that during that time, and the time of the alpha/beta, the story as well as numerous game mechanics were changed. This is something that happens all too much in video games, let's not all forget the days of Halo 2 where we had a trailer of an awesome mission, and that wasn't in the final game. Content and mechanics get cut due to all sorts of reasons. Mechanics such as Trading, Gambling, and others were cut from the final product. The reasons, can only be told to you by Bungie, so I cannot provide it to you, just know that they may have been present before, but are gone now. As for the "amount" of story content in the game, this is where some frustration comes into play by people, but you need to also realize that Bungie had to change the story in about a Year's time, so they may have been running out of said time to get everything they wanted done, this is also something that can happen when you have big name titles, so the developer will polish up as much as they can to release to you. This is where the DLC packs enter the picture. How this works is when a game is nearing completion, the team behind the design will start working on the DLC packs for the game, this is how it always works, and sometimes this content may be put on the game's disk as a placeholder or a template to upcoming content (See DestinyTracker for info), in fact, many of you have already found some of this placeholder content, but if you've actually looked carefully, you'll notice it's not done yet. I think the best example I can provide is the upcoming "awesome" new gun Necrochasm, which is a reward for completing Crota's End on Hard. Have a look [url=http://db.destinytracker.com/inventory/item/2809229973]at this beauty[/url], but if you look closely, you'll see the noted [b]Cursebringer[/b] perk has a template icon in it's place, and there is no 3D model present for this gun. This tells us that the concept design and base stats were placed in the game prior to it going gold, but the actual implementation isn't actually done yet, IE: It's being worked on, sound familiar? [quote]People are working on this content right now at Bungie. It's not finished.[/quote] Also, if you personally haven't actually explored some of these areas that have been found, please do so, and tell me what you actually find in there. You'll find a lot of glitches, non-working elements, and even placeholder or template art which is obviously not finalized, so again, as DeeJ best said, the content is being worked on. So all of these threads and hate messages about "Disk Locked Content" are not valid my friends, all MMO style games use the tactic of prior implementation to cut on the design work of the developers, IE: They're making it easier to deliver the content to you, sooner. This isn't to scare you, or some corporate bullcrap, these "pre-designed" areas are in place to get the content to you much quicker. WoW uses this tactic for every expansion they make, and that game is still going strong, and the people don't complain about those areas. So, why are you community, doing the same to Bungie, when they're using this tactic to [b]HELP YOU[/b], the player? It just doesn't make sense to me. The last thing I'd like to address here is something very cool, the fact that those are "placeholders" in the DB of the game files tells me that there's definitely a lot of cool new stuff actually coming to the game. I believe fully, that the "leak" or "rumor" of the third subclass and the content of Crota's End from the anonymous tester is 100% true, in fact, if Bungie was dispatching their Ninja's to "delete it or face a ban", then it kind of points to the fact that it's probably true. So people please, chill out. This is a MMO-Style game that is very early in it's life. We need to be helping Bungie give us the experience we want to enjoy here. They don't want to read hundreds of rant posts and hate all day, they want honest feedback to help bring the experience to you. Bungie employees are also Guardians, they want to have the exciting journey that you're taking part in. Don't take in these hate filled videos with silly theories as truth. Unless the information is directly confirmed as truth by means of Bungie telling us that it is, or by means of us actually seeing it for ourselves, it is nothing more than a personal opinion, which is not true information, which is why we finally reach the end of my discussion, and why I think you'd be missing out on an awesome experience to let one 30 minute video ruin what would be a wonderful expansion to your game. Game on Guardians, and I'll see you in Crota's End in December! [b]Edit: My note on the upcoming content part has been clarified ash55, the post/thread was deleted due to it breaking the rules of the forum, genuine leak or not[/b] [b]Edit 2:[/b] [b]Too Long Didn't Read[/b] People who are posting videos on youtube attacking your decision to buy the DLC are not legitimate because there is no solid proof to what they are providing you with, IE: they're lying to you, or pushing an agenda of their own. You should at least consider buying the DLC's due to the cool stuff we've already seen some templates for in the game's database, and finally, the DLC isn't done yet, it's being worked on right now, so these threads and theories suggesting otherwise are wrong. [b]To All:[/b] I do appreciate the select individuals who have provided constructive comments, however the most of you are obviously too hooked on negativity to resort to attacks on me and anyone who disagrees with you, which is honestly an attack on your own credibility. Your "Self-Entitlement" behavior will not be tolerated any more in this thread, if you have nothing constructive to provide, don't bother posting as you will simply be ignored. Opinions the other way will be completely ignored without a solid piece of evidence to back up your claim (Posting a youtube video will not be treated as such). Finally, in no way or form am I required to post a video to make my own point, if you're too lazy to read or at least form a reasonable opinion based on facts, then don't bother posting either. Finally, to anyone who thinks attacking my credibility is a good idea, I guarantee you that it will only hurt you when I press that shiny report button for misinformation, I have provided my credentials many times before, so I don't need to do so again.

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  • Edited by CalmestFan: 11/28/2015 11:09:40 AM
    So how much did bungie pay you to post here? Here's what's going on after the "king" "expansion" release... I'll sell you an f350, then a year later I'm going to steal if from your house and leave you a honda civic after I tell you "I'm going to do an oil change for free on your truck". Then I'll offer to give you back your f350, for the same price you originally bought it for, and I'll toss in some billy ray cyrus cd's...that's exactly what they did with this "king" release. I no longer have my game but some pathetic reduced version. expansions don't cost 50 either...damn this shit is obvious and so are you!

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  • Yup. We're 2.5% of the way through a 10 year plan. TDB gave new value to patrols and bounties and provided the most intense stories and strikes yet. It's gonna be a fun ride, and I can't wait.

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    • If the DLC was $5-10 dollars, I would buy it. $18-20 just does not seem reasonable. It isn't so much the cost but the principle of value to me. Also, It is not an expansion by the common use of the word. It is just annoying that the term they use insinuates a large amount of content. Lets hope for better on the next one.

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    • I don't mind reading long posts, as long as they present a valid argument. I read through yours, and re-read a few parts to ensure I was clear on what you were saying. Now allow me to counter, with a long rambling post of my own. In your whole post, when you are countering the "most shot at point" being the lack of Story mode, your one and only viable explanation was the lead writer left. Here is my question then. Did the writer own the rights to the story, or did Bungie? The writer left one year before launch date, so it's not like they didn't have the storyboards laid out and the plot points arranged. In order to get the final product finished in time for their announced launch date, they would've had to have the framework in place, and story line laid out. It wasn't like Joseph Staten (the lead writer who left) kept telling them, "I have it all in my head, don't worry, it'll be fine". He spent 4 years working on Destiny, setting the story, and working with the entire team to build the world of Destiny before he left. So why was the story so bare bones? Why DID Joe Staten leave? He had been with Bungie for 15 years, and helped build multiple franchises with them. Rumors abound about content being left out, that up to 98% of the story line that was to be in the launch day release was pulled out. Is this true? I don't know. But what I see were a lot of scenes that don't make sense, and a story that didn't have a proper flow or cohesion. So I read the rumors, and make my own judgement if there is validity in them. I can play devil's advocate. Let's try this anecdote on: I'm Joe Staten. I've made a career from writing incredible story lines and cutscenes for games, have written a novel that debuted at #3 on the NY Times bestseller list, and when my name is attached to a project, people expect huge things. So obviously I was more than distressed with the new direction that this game was going, and based on my conversations with the higher ups, they wanted to release this game and cut all the content, to be released in future DLC, just to make more money. Obviously this bothered me and I didn't want my name associated with this decision, so I am choosing to leave my employer of 15 years. Now as a whole, I don't have an issue with companies releasing games with placeholders set in place with the plans for future DLC, but when you look at Destiny as a whole, this wasn't the case. There are enough things that they have to work on, and will release in the future, so that would cover half of what has been "leaked or rumored" but the other half is things that should've been in the game already. This company made choices to restrict what they launched, in the hopes and plans that they would be able to sell it to us later. If there were obvious plans to have certain elements in place with the launch, and they had to push it back just to finalize, then why are these not being offered as free updates and patches? Why is everything included in paid content? This was an executive choice to milk the consumer base for more money. [quote]We didn't get to finish the story, so we'll be bringing it to you later, if you pay for it. If you don't want to pay more, then you'll never get to see what the story should've been.[/quote] This is the essential point that they made. If they truly intended to have a complete story, and ran out of time, then this story should be included with our initial purchase price. I understand that they want to ensure this game has a life cycle of 10 years, so in order to do this they'll have to make expansion packs and charge us for it, but when the game releases at $60-70, and they immediately tell you to buck up an extra $35-40 within the first 4 months, it has to make you consider, "HOW MUCH will this game cost me over the next year?" Based on the dollar amount they're already asking for right from day one, would be the main reason I would actually encourage people NOT TO BUY the DLC. But I thank you for your opinion.

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      • Edited by Alpha One: 12/19/2014 9:29:59 PM
        If they were having issues internally why not postponed the game to be able to fix it rather than packaging and say here we are done and hope you like it. Plus: Everyone has the self-entitlement psychopathic behavior ( I added psychopathic), me, and even you. What happened to freedom of speech? Shouldn't everyone have the right to express themselves? 2nd Plus: Welcome to the internet

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      • Long rant. Stopped after intro. Poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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      • Thank you for your great post. What this forum is facing is a mob mentality. I must admit that they have gotten me caught in it time to time. What I find every interesting is the hate that is spouted out on this forum but when I get online everyone is enjoying the game and loving what they are doing. I myself work for a software company (not for gaming) and also understand the process of developing programs. I find it amusing when we get requests from people for new features. We consider all of them but only a small few get developed. The reason for this is that people do not understand the basic infrastructure that the software was built on. So for example when you tell Bungie just add a glimior card section in game this might be 100 + hours of programming that effects multiple different areas of the game. Just because we want to see the glimmer cards in game does not mean it is possible without destroying the inventory screen or character screen in the process. On another note I would love to see more story and strongly believe that in time the story will fill in and will get better and better. This crappy story is because of the lose of the producer that they had and it is unfortunate. The only other option was to put ahold on the release and take more time developing. This would have destroyed the game and it would have never seen the light of day. Keep pushing them for more story but also be understanding and be NICE. If we as a community we stopped the hate forum and give started giving constructive feed back. The game will get better faster. The hot patches would contain more the balancing. Play the game, enjoy the game, give feed back on the game.

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        • Very good post overall. I have read similar posts on both sides of the fence and agree with both because I have a love/hate relationship with this game. The main problem I have with this game though you point out yourself in the quote below. [quote]As for the "amount" of story content in the game, this is where some frustration comes into play by people, but you need to also realize that Bungie had to change the story in about a Year's time, so they may have been running out of said time to get everything they wanted done, this is also something that can happen when you have big name titles, so the developer will polish up as much as they can to release to you. [/quote] So basically shit went down, people left or got fired, and the crew remaining at Bungie scrambled to release an inferior product. How is that fair to consumers? Why not delay the release like many companies have done before? Many of the decisions and changes that have come in recent patches and even the DLC proves that there is no longer a 10 year plan. It seems as if they are just flying by the seat of their pants with the entire game. Don't get me wrong I got my monies worth and had a blast playing Destiny. When I first started playing I was instantly hooked and was on board for the long haul. Then things changed. Lots of things. There have been tons of posts about all those things though so I won't go into that.

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        • Actual post starts at paragraph 4 for those wondering. No matter what the causes were, there simply is no excuse for a game that was promised to have a story to no longer have an adequate story. It was nonexistent garbage and as a consumer there is no valid excuse. I would not excuse Apple's problems in production as a justification for why this macbook does not have a keyboard.* I wouldn't suggest people buy the DLC unless they feel they have gotten their money's worth from the retail game. If they did then I'm sure whatever the DLC contains will suffice. *I do not actually own a macbook. I am a functioning adult in the modern century and know to work on my own computer.

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          • I regret buying the dlcs ahead of time

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            • This is probably the second thread like this i have read. I want to thank you for taking the time to write down your a opinions and perspectives. Hopefully it will get any fence riders to fall one way or another. Just for clarification I agree with you. Purchasing the DLC will help this game expand beyond what is already planned. I waited 3-4 weeks before purchasing the expansion pass. I wanted to get a feel for the game to make sure that I was going to enjoy the gameplay,leveling system and what bungie was going to do with their early updates. Obviously I liked what I saw and experienced. I think age/life experience has a lot to do with the forum as it is today. Until you have experienced the ups and downs and inevitable compromise that is "corporate America"; until you have been an integral part (or even peripheral) of any companies long term plans; until you have the revelation that someone may make an inflammatory video (wether they believe their own content or not) to get more hits on their page, because that how they make a portion of their income, you will never expect, and be ok with, a little disappointment for long term gain. I know that was a very long sentence (blame Whitman) but I didn't know a better way to convey my thoughts. Pulling back the veil for at least one person will justify my effort this morning. P.S. no one is owed the "disk locked content" it's not content, at least not in its entirety, if it was complete i would be on the other side of this point. It's like subscribing to a magazine and expecting next months issue now, not just expecting, but actually pissed its not in your hands at that exact moment. Sure, they give you a teaser or two on the last page of the current issue as to what articles are coming up; sure you can hop online and find out where they sent their reporters and speculate as to what is also going to be included in the issue, but all they have is a story boarded skeleton with half completed layouts and articles that need to still be written. P.P.S. the "I'm going to sue..." statements are what started my thought process about much of what I read on the forums being written by kids, or individuals who haven't worked a job other than manual labor or burger flipping. The concept is so laughable because they obviously have no idea the time, effort and money it takes to sue someone, and that's just small claims court. They want to sue Bungie or even Activion for that matter!... I scoff at the idea and can only wrap you in a cloud of ignorance, because that's what you are, not stupid or misinformed just sheer ignorant.

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              • A "cakewalk of laughter". Blimey, there's a mixed metaphor you don't see every day.

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                • The hate train riders are just lames man. They will be everywhere on every game no matter what! The fact that they have nothing better to do but get on a games forum that they "hate so much" and talk shit is just hysterical. Yeah the story could have been better and imo the crucible is garbage and I don't waste anytime at all on the PvP but I love Destiny and am having more fun on this game then I have had on a game since BL2. And I can't wait for the DLCs to start dropping! My money is already in bungies pockets and I don't regret any of it!

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                • I read the entire post. Thank you, and I am glad there are some optimistic people still out there. I believe Bungie's focus on PVE will shine through in the DLC's.

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                • Tdldr.. (Too damn long, didn't read)

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                  • So no good reason?

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                  • Its like 30 pound.. Its not the end of the world jesus

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                    • I personally won't be spending anymore of my hard earned cash on Destiny. I don't see why I should have to buy content peicemeal to complete a game that should have had it all included it to start with. The only way developers and publishers learn is if people don't purchase. I had high hopes for destiny and it just doesn't meet any off them. The very tools are just missing, while most online games suffer launch issue very few that have launched in the last 2 years have been so barren on now stardard features. Blaming a lead designer leaving and cliaming story overhauls which can not be proved is just a way of trying to calm the community is nothing more than a PR stunt that many off you have fallen for. Nothing comes out of a development studio without it passing through marketting and PR first. The game simply wasn't ready and Activision after investing so much wanted it released and what Bungie have delieved is rubbish, totally and utterly what not to do.

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                      • Nope nope nope. I don't support this business model so I don't pay. Vote with your wallet.

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                      • I was already going to buy it. Destiny is the best game ever.

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                      • Edited by brewsntattoos: 10/26/2014 10:24:37 PM
                        [quote]They don't want to read hundreds of rant posts and hate all day,[/quote]wrong. go listen to the guardian radio episode where deej was a guest [b]edit: i shouldn't have told you to do anything, rather suggest that there is an episode of guardian radio with deej as guest. sorry about that.[/b] he says specifically that he wants the feedback. he doesn't want people trying to coddle bungie or defend them. [quote]they want honest feedback to help bring the experience to you.[/quote]correct. this, again, is what deej mentioned in the podcast. and honest feedback is what everyone is giving them. they may not always do so eloquently or at a higher education level, but that shouldn't negate their feelings. and if it's from the heart, it's how they truly, honestly, feel at the moment. i agree with you on the dlc not being finished. i've been there and it is clearly not done yet. but most people don't understand that. they won't or can't go there and, to them, knowing that even a portion of it is on the disc is reprehensible to them. it's fine that you want to educate folks and set them on a path of knowledge that will help them along. but, regardless of your credibility, you still don't work for this company. i believe it should be their responsibility in taking the lead in educating their consumers when these questions pop up. ignoring them or giving them broad and vague explanations that do not really answer anything will breed contempt and suspiciousness. i'm not looking to pick a fight or be negative. i want constructive criticism and am simply trying to give it. if you need sources on the deej statements i mentioned, i can pull them up, but i'm tired right now and it's really late. edit 2 : here's the link to the guardian radio podcast i mentioned. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMrfYYPr-SU]guardian radio podcast[/url] 18:00 - he wants honest and sincere responses. 44:50 - he doesn't want unsolicited praise, but wants honest thoughts. says it's worth its weight in gold. 47:10 - wants people to call them out on their BS. there was a lot more i had originally, but it was a long list. i cut it down to just a few main points that i feel deal with your long post. have a listen to the whole thing though, as there are some other good responses he has.

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                      • Finally someone who gets it! All these people hating are just cod and halo fanboys that don't understand anything about an MMO. THIS GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE AROUND FOR YEARS. Obviously they aren't releasing everything all at once. Bungie wants their community to stay and have fun Quit complaining, because you KNOW you still play the game. Play the raid and get to 30, collect the exotic guns, teabag people in the crucible. Find something to keep you occupied for 2 months - or don't play! But quit bashing Bungie. They've never had experience in this type of game before and they've have a lot of pressure on them from Activision and US. The community that's not helping by crying like little babies instead of giving quality criticism. Yeah I was bitching at first, but once I got to a high enough level, and played the raid with friends or people that became my friends, I enjoy it know. We all laugh and joke around and have serious moments in the raid. And that's part of the journey! Try to learn to enjoy this game for what it is instead of wanting something it'll never be

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                        • Edited by twa545: 10/25/2014 6:31:57 PM
                          All we got was a 5 hour long broken story with no attempt to cover up the original story. Seriously Ryse was 5 hours and no one defends that BS. 6 of the spongiest copypasta strikes. 1 Raid. One of the worst multiplayers. And an on disc DLC. How can additional DLC fix this? We got screwed.

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                          • If the core game was lacking this much content and can be completed in a month, then no, you shouldn't buy DLC. What are you gonna get? A few more of the same missions with no story? Ooh a new raid? It will get old after a matter of weeks.

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                          • Zzzzzz, most people will of moved on by then

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                          • i know i won't be buying dlc....paying them any extra money is just telling them and future companies that this sort of behavior is ok. They need to learn from this or we run the risk of every game in the future using this as their model for games they make. Make 100% finished games you can be proud of even if no dlc content was EVER released. That's how the industry should work. period. -§mort§-

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