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#Raid

Edited by Kyban: 10/22/2014 2:23:53 PM
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Kyban

Why the random timestream mechanic should change back

Feeback for Bungie, and also a note of concern about the philosophy behind raids. I have some concern about the change to Aethon's player targeting to players. As I'm sure many others have as well. It's a little worrisome to me, i fear that raids will eventually be no fun because of changes like this one. Here are my reasons why. I'm worried because Bungie has effectively taken away the players choice in that fight. The players were able to make a conscious decision. They were able to identify the situation and make a choice to change the outcome of the fight. Fairly mind you, within the games own rules. Do not underestimate a person’s sense of accomplishment. Even if it’s just an illusion to them. A person who walks into any situation in game and feels like they've used their head will walk out of there feeling much more accomplished than a person who rams their head into a wall for hours. About making the fight harder... Don’t make something tough just for the sake of being tough. I can’t help but feel like this change was made to make the fight harder. Even though the weekly updates states the change was made because Bungie wanted to make sure everyone can do the roles required (I don’t even want to get into that). I’m sure that was part of the reason, but I can also say, fairly confidently, that they wanted the fight to be much harder. I can’t emphasize this next part enough. Making seemingly arbitrary changes to a fight just because “it needs to be harder” is a terrible idea. First of all, what’s the fiction? How is Aetheon now all of the sudden teleporting random people? And secondly, more importantly, how is that fun? Removing control out of the player’s hands in a very jarring way is not a fun mechanic. Being predictable makes for a better constructed experience, and leaves less blame to the designers and more on the players (in cases of a party wipe). In conclusion, change it back. Put the choice back in the hands of the players, allow us to feel more accomplished when we complete a raid. Do not let us feel like “Oh, we got lucky this time.” I know this feels like one tiny change I'm writing about, but it really is the principle of the matter. EDIT: Talking with ThaGinjaNinja gave me an idea. I thought it might be worth sharing here. Even though i still feel it should not have changed, i think this could be a potential middle ground for the timestream mechanic: Keep it so that the three furthest get teleported. The difference is when they return, a debuff is applied to them that keeps them from going back (temporarily). Or, maybe better, the person who had the shield gets this debuff. That way the three furthest people still get teleported, just not him. He has to rotate out with someone. That still makes it challenging, and gives us the chance to use strategy again.

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  • Looks like this patch finally rolled out today. With Bungie saying this: [i]"Fixed an issue where Atheon was not choosing random targets for teleport through the timestream during the final encounter on the Vault of Glass"[/i] Apparently it was a bug all along? Don't know if i buy that. I still strongly feel that making it random is a mistake.

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  • I wouldn't mind seeing ez mode changed back, but randomized for hard mode is in line with what a hard mode end game fight should be. The aetheon fight really isn't that difficult. In fact its shockingly easy on normal.

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    • Edited by REXEL: 10/22/2014 4:59:53 PM
      It's f'ing stupid they would rather change this, as opposed to fixing bugs. By bugs Im talking about: enemies regening their health randomly, inability to go through the teleporter, and a host of other ones. Bungie doesn't have their priorities set right. "Let's change the game instead of fixing it first". Serious question, do you paint a car before repairing body damage? Honestly it's nonsense like this that will be the death of the game.

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    • You said what I was thinking perfectly. Very well articulated. I hope they read this and know that these changes would go a long way for the community. And bring the game to an even healthier lever. Balance is what we need, like your edit. Not RNG again. I support your idea.

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      • Me and some of my clan members were talking about this being the end of bungie, it would be a terrible mistake to change it as many players are not able to complete this endgame as a part of matchmaking or not passing a boss etc... We came to the conclusion that if these changes are to be made, make them on the HARD mode difficulty so the more 'hardcore' destiny player has more of a challenge. I agree with the 'baby bumper' fix as that is a game ruiner.

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        • Am I crazy? We didn't notice the random teleport at all last night, it still grabbed our three furthest people. There was a couple of times a wrong person went through, but those were times not everyone was where they were supposed to be and mistakes might have been made. Are you guys absolutely sure they made the change? If they did, it seems to be mostly non-random. The occasional curveball to shake things up a little isn't a bad thing.

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          • Bump

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          • Bump

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          • You know they still haven't fixed the bugs with the gates where you can run through and end up on the same planet that you were on OR you end up in an empty version of the boss room while going blind from the debuff. I'm pretty certain 90% of my deaths on the raid were due to bugs on the Atheon portion of the fight...

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            • The timestream was perfectly fine. Literally did ANY person complain about it? If it AINT broke don't fix it. But wait, as if this game isn't RANDOM enough, Bungie had to randomize it even more! It was very enjoyable and took quite a bit of strategy to decide who had which role at the final boss. Thanks a lot Bungie, keep up the random work!

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            • Edited by Onionknight: 10/22/2014 1:53:39 PM
              What I don't get, Why even add this in now? It should have been done the first hotfix. Bungie Watched players beat the VoG, So they knew the strategy being used. Another thing most MMOs (I know this isn't a total MMO), Will make older content easier, As new content comes out. Another reason why this shouldn't be added. The next Raid will be here in what about two months? Bungie needs to get over the fact that, People beat their raid. Also I just wanted to say that adding in a random teleport isn't going to hurt all groups. At least 4/6 players need to know how to use the relic. And I say this a lot, Its really going to make the raid even easier, Because we won't have to worry about leaving to get to the back or sides. Now don't get me wrong there are going to be a lot of groups that break up, Because they won't be able to get this down.

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              • They even said it is a fix to the current porting issue. DAMN SON. SMH

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                • They said balance is everyone doing something a little different. Seems like they want us to be the same. I just watched a video of a full team killing him quick, all 6 ppl just pounded him with the same rocket launcher.

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                  • Yes. Nicely done

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                  • Agreed. I'm almost fine with it as a hard mode mechanic only, but even then I always liked the idea of putting all the square pegs in the round holes. RNG just makes it frustrating.

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                  • Edited by ThaGinjaNinja: 10/21/2014 6:48:35 PM
                    Wether they say it or not there initial release day Notes were all talk about how challenging going through raid should be and would be.... [quote][url=/en/News/News?aid=12141]Let the Raiding Begin[/url][/quote] Like anyother game it becomes streamline as we learn it however bungies effort here is to keep it as tough as initially sought out being it is the only current end game content but was never initially suppose to be for everyone and they said that before they launched it and they even stated that in the update notes the random teleportation was to make sure every player does their part [quote][url=/en/News/News?aid=12295]Bungie Weekly Update - 10/17/2014[/url][/quote] read there specific reason for the teleportation change which is very valid when considering there initial beleive and vision on how tough the raid should be and where it falls in the line up of begginer to advanced mission types for all players of all skill sets[quote]Become Legend. Not everyone will qualify. Among those who do, not everyone will succeed. To even approach this trial of teamwork and combat, the Guardians in your Fireteam will need to be Level 26.[/quote] [quote]The encounter goal for Atheon is to act as a climax and the culmination of learning for a given Raid group. Part of that is making sure that each player in your group can perform every job as required. A change will take effect next week which fixes a bug with Atheon's target selection. When using its Timestream ability, Atheon will select 3 players at random, instead of choosing the three players furthest from it.[/quote]

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