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Edited by Roxas3510:
10/19/2014 8:53:36 PM
27
People crying "nerf" in PvP (serious post)
Before I begin, I want to say that this is not a "complaining about the complainers" thread, I'm just trying to have a discussion and give my opinions on the matter.
After reading many posts about people wanting certain things nerfed in the crucible, I realized something that I should have realized before. It's not that anything is OP in PvP, it's that people don't know how to adapt. In a thread that I was recently posting in, the OP was saying that the melee needed to be nerfed. I thought he was joking at first, but his explanation of why he wanted it to be nerfed is what made me realize that a lot of people aren't adapting.
The melee isn't a good example for this, let's use shotguns. People are complaining about the shotguns and how they should be nerfed to hell, but I haven't had a problem with them since launch. I think people are, for the most part, running straight into shotguns and thinking they're OP because they're getting dropped. It's not that the weapon is OP, you're just playing right into that player's hands.
The reason I don't have a problem with shotguns is probably because of my play style. I play cautiously, I keep an eye on my radar at all times and I try to avoid close quarters unless I have a shotgun myself. I never used to play this way, I've changed my play style up for many occasions ever since I started playing shooters with MW2. There are certain things in any FPS game that people aren't going to like, but that doesn't mean it's OP, it means you aren't adapting to the situation. Once you learn how to play around shotguns, they aren't a problem anymore.
Once you learn how to adapt to any situation, you can be great at any FPS game. I don't like to say I'm great at shooters (because I feel that people will think I'm conceited), but I am. I'm excellent at CoD, Battlefield, Halo, Counter Strike, this game, and any other shooter I play. It's all about learning everything about the game and developing a way to defeat it. If something can't be stopped no matter what you do, [b]then[/b] it can be considered OP, but I have yet to encounter anything like that in this game (the mythoclast pre-patched could be considered OP, but even then, I figured out how to beat those players who used it).
See what you're having problems with, recognize it's strengths and weaknesses, and figure out how to take advantage of those weaknesses to defeat it. Do this and you'll excel past many FPS players. There's more to being good at shooters than this, but learning how to adapt to everything is probably the most important in my opinion.
I know this is a wall of text but I really want you guys to read all of it if you want to give some constructive criticism. I'm trying to have a mature discussion about PvP in this game and how to help people improve, not flame others.
English
#Destiny
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pre patch game felt pretty ok; any time I died it was from my own mistakes - even though only AR was truly viable I could still play in a consistent way. playing around the shotgun/fusion rifle was what separated good players from bad ones now it's a bit more random and inconsistent but its probably for the better in the long run. feels a bit too "rock paper scissory" though - dunno if I'm a fan of something like that outside of TF2.
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I agree with most of what you said. Shotguns are only a problem if you are running around Rambo style, just slow down around corners. I do agree that auto rifles were( and still are I think) outperforming other primaries. In this case balance changes are warranted.
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I totally agree 100% to this whole post. Although I have to complain to something about the servers or net coding or w/e, I think they should focus more on that, rather than nerfing gats and glitching stuff, it's gotten worse since the "fix" really. I'm kind of tired of the countless trade kills in the PvP, but then again, maybe need to play smarter to avoid that stuff too.
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I suck at PvP. I'd like to blame a slow connection, which I suspect is a key contributor, but I don't think I'd be stellar even with a fast connection and it doesn't stress me. I'm fine with it. Few PvP modes have really interested me, and I really dislike when games try to force or cajole me into PvP - which Destiny seems to want to do with like 2 VG Vendors and like 5 and soon to be 7 Crucible Vendors. Whatever. Destiny still has some of the worst designed and balanced PvP of any game I've seen with rather few maps or individualized modes to spread out the pain. Still, While I largely agree with you I'm not a big fan of the concept of 'balance' people freak out about to begin with. Fights aren't fair. If they were really fair odds are we'd have fewer fights. Everyone is looking for an advantage, or they wouldn't be interested in the conflict to begin with. The first thing that really ticked me off in the horribly designed game, that is nonetheless usually pretty fun to play, is nerfing Pocket Infinity. That seriously blew my mind. It's hard to get, but fun, and takes up your exotic slot which often needs to be filled with something else. Why? PvP of course. Always the answer isn't it? What I don't understand is why instead of taking the whiffle bat to every individual weapon people turn their ire against after losing a match why don't you just disable secondary attributes or plain gie everybody the same weapon type in PvP? Halo was fairly balanced because everyone had the same performing assault rifle for the most part. So do the same thing. Leave everyones appearance customized and just give them the same performance weapons in PvP regardless of level. Problem solved.
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PvP isn't balanced, and even if it was the only thing it's good for is getting bounties done quickly..
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5 RepliesEdited by Deathray: 10/20/2014 4:48:05 AMPvp is meant to be balanced. Nerfing something isn't hard. The problem is nerfs affect pve because bungie changes the attack stat which they shouldn't . For pvp nerfing they should target item stats like impact or stability. Keeping the attack stat normal will allow the weapon to do its usual damage In pve while still being balanced for pvp.
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15 Repliesvex was op, i still get highest score from time to time after nerf, Its still a good weapon. but imagining 5 shot kills on vex which shoots really really fast. Thats op.
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2 RepliesGood read, but I would say adaptability is also key to excelling at anything its why many competitive games have meta games. Though i think the biggest problem with shotguns us not the gun itself but rather that most maps are 80% cqc areas, add in that they are hotspots, and people will be frustrated simply because its the only gun they see.
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Some things simply need to be adapted to. Some things need to be rebalanced. [quote]If something can't be stopped no matter what you do, [b]then[/b] it can be considered OP.[/quote] Just because something can technically be outplayed does not mean it is not OP. For instance, if all the Auto Rifles have a 900ms TTK and one comes along with a 300ms TTK, faster than every other Primary weapon in the game, with laser accuracy and limitless range, it'd be OP. Could you technically outplay it? Sure, OHKO Sniper Rifle to the head or Shotgun to the face, as well as rockets and good use of Supers would kill the player wielding it. That doesn't mean it deserves to be so much more powerful than everything else.
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5 RepliesThere is certainly improvement everyone can do in this game, however one shot kills are annoying and discouraging in every game and I find most of the complaints are focused around one hit kills. The developers tried to solve this with the supply boxes in pvp but only high level players who play pvp often know exactly where these boxes spawn and they spawn in the same spots everytime. Which ever team gets these boxes typically wins because they can one hit kill the other team. Not a bad idea except one would think these boxes would be an integral part of the pvp with sirens and arrows showing where the boxes are and not be stuffed in the middle of no where or in a corner where no one is A possible remedy could be to make the boxes spawn relatively linear in the zone progression (not all the way out in the corners) so that each team entirely can fight for the boxes, and thusly the worse team loses the key item required to win If that sounds like a terrible remedy then possibly the boxes should drop at zones where each team is located, so that each team gets the ammo. Or maybe the top player of a team (or maybe the worst depending on your philosophy) should get the ammo automatically so each team has one player with heavy ammo
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I agree completely. I've been thinking this since the beginning. [i]Everything[/i] has pros and cons, goods and bads. Every class has its advantages, and it's disadvantages which need to be incorporated into people's individual play styles if they're to be effective.
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We need more posts like this on these forums. You clearly addressed an issue, and talked about ways to solve it in a helpful, un biased and instructive manner. Thanks for your input, I completely agree with your points!
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1 ReplyThank you!!!!!! Some one actually flipping gets it and is intelligent. People ruining this game all over the forums.
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2 RepliesWell said. I've lost count of how many players I've run with who end up complaining about how OP -insert gun type here- are, and yet, no matter which type it was, I can generally find a way around it if motivated. (Granted, I would never consider myself above "decent" at best in PvP either lol).
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Preach it.
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6 RepliesEdited by xMr Poor: 10/19/2014 11:48:31 PMYou seriously think everything is balanced correctly? Get real dude.... The vex was clearly OP, the ARs and shotguns are still OP. Any good player can "adapt," which just means expoit the OP weapons also, as you've done, but that only kills the diversity of the game. Crucible is boring when 99% of players are using ARs and shotguns. All the weapons should be a viable option so it supports a variety of play styles. Bungie took the time to make all these different weapon types, they won't let them become obsolete by suros and invective. (I'm a much better player than you btw, so please refrain from the typical fanboy "get good" response)
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5 RepliesSince this is directed to me and my thread about the range melee were i give my reason why i fill its imbalanced and i have now become a complainer who cant adapt seeing as just like you I have a long history in fps as well even going as far back as wining 007 national tournaments you say you did not agree with my explanation. So i come to your thread asking you why you fill that I am wrong ?
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1 ReplyYou're one of the few people I've seen with a valid (and not douchy) argument. c': You should feel proud of yourself.
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1 ReplyAfter trying multiple styles of play in Destiny and thinking about my experience in gaming over the years, its true. A lot of players don't like changing how they play.
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The best post I've seen in quite awhile. Well done sir, it's nice to see someone logical on here who understands the way things are meant to be done. Thumbs up.
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1 ReplyDon't be sad because no one is replying. You are absolutely right.
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Most honest forum in a while. Couldn't agree more!
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your point on the shotgun stuff is pretty straight forward my friend. and i play the same way you do: always checking radar and making sure i avoid close counters unless i have a shotgun or fusion rifle.
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In most cases I'd have to agree. I'm still not sure what to think about the Vex Mythoclast, but that's because I didn't have the opportunity to try it myself. It was definitely a pain though. Shotguns are typically the easiest thing to avoid. Fusion Rifles require you to listen for their unique sound. Auto and Scout Rifles seem right on target. Pulse Rifles and Hand Canons could use a boost in my opinion (although that may just be due to my lack of time using either weapon).
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2 Replies"serious post" *scoots to edge of seat and leans over monitor with raised eyebrows* scans.... oh... sits back clicks another thread.
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1 ReplyLast bump, seems people aren't interested.
