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Edited by TuffMelon: 10/14/2014 7:39:44 AM
217

Nerfs, and why you shouldnt jump ship just yet.

Cant help but notice the large quantity of rage, happiness, complaining and complaining about complaining people have been doing, so i thought id start this just to settle some of it. For starters, before i fully begin, i understand people have a tendency to scream over numbers. Yes, big numbers are scary, but the arent always as bad as you expect, so consider waiting for the patch before you call for bungie on a cross. Auto Rifles Base Damage decreased by 2% Reduced Precision Damage multiplier from 1.50 -> 1.25 (head shot bonus) Stability decreased by 4% - 17% (driven by stat value) The base damage (i find) to be pointless of a change (to the point of being negligable), i can guarantee you wont notice it in a weeks time. Precision damage multiplier reduction seems to be to prevent the auto rifles from hitting way too -blam!-ing hard, in PvP. Not sure how well that will go down in PvE (their headshots seem alright there), but once again, reducing the headshot damage by ONE SIXTH will probably be less then obvious down the line. Now, the stability deduction is the big change. The real change. The only change you should worry about in concern to Auto Rifles. Keep in mind here it says 4-17% meaning the guns with lower impact will have far less of a reduction then those with the higher impact. And those with higher impact tend to have less firerate (meaning youll notice the stability loss less). As much as you dont like it, it MAKES SENSE. Bigger the bullet, the more the recoil. Auto rifles have been rolling around with barely noticeable recoil for a while now, allowing them to be accurate far past the range they (for balance reasons) should. Bungie are trying to bring the Scout/Pulse/Auto Rifle stat designs closer to what we remember from similar guns in the Halo games. They worked well, so dont shit yourself just yet. Scout Rifles Base damage increased by 6% Damage vs. Combatants increased by 6% - 25% (based on tier) Improved target acquisition, plus additional recoil tuning. Base damage of Scout Rifles was probably unnecessary (seriously, it felt that way with my legendary Scout Rifle), but since they did pretty average damage with body shots, this was probably to mitigate that to an extent, giving the proper feeling of a bigger bullet gun firing that bigger bullet. Damage Vs Combatants, now im guessing by combatants they mean other guardians in the crucible. And contrary to what people seem to want to believe, THIS IS NECESSARY. There are too many ranges at the moment where the scout rifle is far too slow firing to take people down. At the moment the scout rifle seems to be effective at ranges far too close to the sniper rifle. We shouldnt have to be that far back to be effective. Note that this buff will not effect the guns accuracy in any way, however: The third buff, of increased target acquisition (which could mean anything from aim assist to enemy tracking) could assist in the clos(er) ranges, without making the gun viable at point blank. Recoil tuning im guessing is testing out different ways to make scout rifles handle depending on their power. Im expecting higher recoil from this (so that you cant do 4 headshots in quick succession with almost zero recoil from the harder hitting ScourRs). Shotguns Decreased base damage at maximum range (falloff) by 20% Shot Package Perk now has a slightly wider cone of fire The Rangefinder and Shot Package perks are now mutually exclusive The damage falloff (to those who arent aware) means that the gun loses damage faster the longer the target is away. 1/5th reduction seems pretty extensive, but you can almost guarantee you wont be 1hkd from 20m away anymore. The guns will still be lethal at point blank to short range (as they should). The Shot Package perk (for those that dont know) gives the shotgun a tighter spread WHEN AIMING. Meaning it doesnt effect hipfire at all, and nor does it give the gun a longer range (simply more accuracy at longer ranges) The Rangefinder perk increases Range when aiming. So yes, now you cant have both at once meaning shotguns can no longer fire slugs. However the Rangefinder perk still exists, so you might find those shotties post patch to be similar to how basic shotguns work currently. Exotic Weapons Vex Mythoclast Base Damage decreased by 34% Increased Precision Damage multiplier from 1.25 -> 1.50 (headshot bonus) Pocket Infinity Enhanced Battery Perk has now been replaced with the Speed Reload Perk Vex Mythoclast damage debuff sounds like a huge deal (at 34%, it seems terrifying), but at the moment people seem to kill in 4-5 rounds. A 34% nerf means youve only got to hit 1-2 more shots, more or less (depending on how many body shots you make). Your gun will have better accuracy then most auto rifles after the patch (dont forget, your Mythoclast is a FUSION RIFLE, not an auto rifle), so that extra shot (or two) may not be too much of a hindrance. Not to mention the headshot bonus was increased so getting an extra headshot will take it back down to 5-6 hit kill. The Pocket infinity debuff removes the potential for 8 rounds (Meaning a ridiculous amount of laser pew pew) So people using it actually have to aim a bit better and cant just throw shit everywhere. I understand that this analysis will NOT calm everyones nerves, nor will people decide to stop complaining one way or another. But i hope people stop acting like this SINGLE PATCH (you know, a patch which could easily be re-patched shortly later) is going to be the collapse of everything we know. Seriously guys, its a game. Stop acting like its a job. EDIT: I wrote the rangefinder perk as increasing Accuracy, when it infact increases range. (which is why you can imagine that plus the shot package perk would be quite powerful) Changed to reflect correct description. EDIT: Thanks to IWablam i adjusted the info about the Mythoclast changes, more in depth details in his comment down below.
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  • Edited by DeeJ: 10/14/2014 6:52:53 PM
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    [u]Bungie said[/u]: [b]"Damage vs. Combatants increased by 6% - 25% (based on tier)"[/b] [u]OP said[/u]: [b]"im guessing by combatants they mean other guardians in the crucible."[/b] Hey, there. I'm almost 99% certain that this meant Alien Combatants, who scale by tier. I'm checking with the developers before I make promises. UPDATE: Confirmed. The tiered scalability of Scout Rifle buffs is exclusive to alien combatants. In the Crucible, it's a straight 6%.

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    • Is this only crucible or is my weapon effected like this every way in PVE?

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    • The Scout Rifle buff was very needed...and just about perfect. Returned the SRs to the weapon I remembered----and really liked---during the beta. They still require (and reward) precision...but they have the impact, damage and stopping power one would expect from a weapon firing a big rifle round.

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      • THANK YOU!!!!

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      • It's actually 1/2 not 1/6

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      • I have a feeling that many haters out there just want to nitpick whatever they can about the game and what Bungie does, for the sake of just being haters. I've been using Auto-Rifles since launch, and only occasionally switched to Hand-Guns simply because the RNG gods didn't want me to use an Auto-Rifle for a short period of time. After today's AR nerf, I don't see what the big deal is. I'm still able to head shot mobs from a far distance. I barely (if not at all) notice the increased recoil and lowered precision. To me, my fully upgraded legendary Shadow Pride doesn't feel nerfed at all. Maybe that's because it's a fully upgraded legendary? Maybe lower levels and non-upgraded Auto-Rifles were the most hurt by this nerf? If so. Then don't despair! Just keep playing, keep upgrading it, and like the OP mentioned above, in about a week, you'll never even know that Auto-Rifles were ever nerfed to begin with. IMHO, if the nerf makes PVP baddies happier cause they can kill Auto-Rifle guardians more easily, then that's good! Thank you Bungie for the nerf to shut these people up! Cause for me, I'm sticking to Auto-Rifles! They don't suck after the nerf. They're just as good!

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        • 10/10 for a well thought out, logical post.

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        • adding range does effectively increase accuracy (at least in everything BUT shotguns... no easy way to test if +range has that effect on a shotgun)

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        • spending a lot of time playing pvp which i dont like in this game to get the vanquisher because i wanted the high stability really paid off.

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        • Good post, but it still leads to the same question: why bother "fixing" things that aren't broken, but ignore things that need to be fixed?

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        • I don't think anyone could have said it any better. These kids need to stop crying and just play the game. Glad to finally meet a mature person on the forums!

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        • this doesn't excuse bungie from listening ( yes they are listening! coming from them thats huge lol) to the wrong people. If you wanna nerf something because of PvP complaints its ok AS LONG AS AND ONLY IF that nerf only applies to PvP!!! wtf were they thinking?

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        • Edited by MSG ANIMOTAKU: 10/15/2014 12:18:27 PM
          I'm confused... do you think you can actually settle anything on a forum? A forum is the epitome of free thought, ironically. And as a result you have people spewing all kinds of nonsense, sense, prejudice, morals, and theoretical coefficients all over the place. So it's hardly the place to try and settle arguments and encourage logic and order. XD Though I applaud you for trying. I have often thought of doing so myself.

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        • My Grim Citizen dmg pre and post patch: (only talking PvE here) Normal lvl 28 enemies (red health bar): Pre patch: [b]370 crit[/b] Post patch: [b]309 crit[/b] Elite lvl 28 (yellow health bar): Pre patch: [b]185 crit[/b] Post patch: [b]155 crit[/b] Yes it is less and I dont mind it. Why? because it takes not very much skill to spray down an enemy full-auto. you can aim while shooting. Auto rifles are still strong and totally usable but using other weapons is more rewarding now. I love playing with handcannons and pulserifles but it is harder since you have to crit otherwise your dmg will be very low. Good nerf, autorifles still good

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          • I understand your arguments but there are some things that you really need to consider about the Vex Mythoclast. There was already a huge deficit built into the weapon and now it may unusable as a primary in PVE. Playing a high level story mission or a raid with the weapon was already a challenge. The power output was large but the amount of ammo you can carry with it is really small. 168 rounds maximum, including the clip. There is no way to increase the amount of ammo that you carry for it beyond the 168 as fusion rifle ammo on a chest doesn't apply to it nor does special ammo. Prior to the nerf Even with an 80% precision kill rate I would run out of ammo on a high level story mission. The same is true for a High Level Raid and no I'm not interested in playing low level stuff anymore. Yes it's only 1 or 2 shots more per kill, so let's call it 3 to 4 shots per kill minimum, because firing one shot is almost impossible it will almost always fire 2. Also it took 2 head shots just to kill a level 28 Dreg. For ten Dreg kills (basically 35 shots) it will now take over 20% of the ammo capacity. That's insane! May as well just use a machine gun at that point as you'll run out at a slower rate and you can find ways to carry more ammo for it. By the way after 35+ seconds of standing still I could not get the weapon to auto refill either. The games best weapon may now be useless in a PVE setting. Either that or you're going to have to carry a ton of ammo packs, be accurate, and refill often. Probably more often than the 5:00 timer will allow. These are all things that I wouldn't expect for you to know unless you have the weapon and have used it in a PVE setting but you really should consider them in your argument.

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            • Wait to jump ship? there is no -blam!-ing ship left to sink. it sank when it left harbor with most of the game cut. bungie is screwing the PvE players. anyone who only plays PvP is a 12 year old waiting for the next COD shit game. so dont listen to those idiots. nerf the hardest gun to get???????? rly??????? i havent played in a week(due to repeat of the same crap) now i doubt i will touch it until the expansion(only reason i got it was caues i got sucked into pre ordering a rpg shooter). i did not get a rpg shooter. i got a quarter of a rpg and a half of a shooter. NEVER EVER BUYING A BUNGIE SUCK ASS GAME AGAIN.

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              • Seriously, and i´ll try to leave out my usual cynism and sarcasm. 1 Many, many people are angry because the did not get what they expected it to be. 2 The huge mass demands content / proper narration, simply a game that´s not an empty shell. (Nothing happens @ all) 3 Then there is huge part in PvP and as it is natural PvPs are not happy about getting shot. The guns is always the one to blame so nerf it to shred. 4 In the meanwhile there is this huge mass demanding content again, referring to those "patches" or hotnerfs as i would call it more precisely. Again nothing happens but Nerfs. 5 Finally we get our big NERFOUT weekend and everybody is happy. Has this game and the responsibles not already gone too far?! Are we really that stupid?? At the very least i would expect some kind of reaction to the content issue (no nerfing is surely not appropriate). It is a pure PvP problem - the majority of bosses and enemies in PvE are true bullet sponges anyway so this is the worst kind of funkiller i could hardly imagine as a PvE focused player (i´m talking about "endgame" content which is in it´s term an unbounded cheek, i already played that missions several times b4). A lethal injection for PvE with minor comforting PvP is a real bad idea to save the burning and sinking ship. Nothing positive happened in these so called patches (getting server issues done was already said to be done due to the beta). And guys i find it horrible to complain about guns that would normally kill about literally ANYTHING to a damned rhinoceros with one shot. Why do you expect to survive a shotgun blast in your face or a snipeshot? These are weapons we fear in our times the versions we carry around should be even a little more evolved since they are from the "golden age" a time with technical superiority preparing for a war with alien enemies. Sure, the first thing to do is to invent the next generation squirt gun, who wants to survive anyway... Since the realism factor is pulled into the discussion - great, NERF all special abilities AND supers. They are way to unrealistic and are dealing far too much damage. Besides it is outmost stupid to just "materialize" grenades. Get it out of the game!!!! Way too OP! Sorry this is ridiculous nonsense and even worse for a game that had a terrible start. Seems it would not survive the kindergarden unlike the other games that are mentioned in comparison which started bad as well. The difference? They made up for a better product. These guys are just caring about what is profitable in their eyes.

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                • To me pocket infinity got hit by next bat the hardest. As of right now there is no point picking anything over the perfect balance. They could at least make it something like faster charge rate perk instead.

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                  • Didn't read it

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                  • Can't wait to be able to use my Scout Rifles / Hand Cannons more because of this! More incentive to put down the Suros and play more tactically.

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                  • The only thing I'm getting out of people complaining is they are crying that the game is actually going to require some sort of skill. The auto rifle and shotty needed to be nerfed,when a specific item is used substantially more than anything else, it means its easy to use and powerful(cough bladedancer). Its the bottom line,people are mad that they have to get out of their comfort zone. Being someone that has used every type of weapon,maxed exotics and classes,the auto rifle needed a range Nerf as did the shotty, the fusion rifle is probably next, the mythoclast being a 3 shot in crucible was just ridiculous, 4 shots is fine,stop whining that the game isn't giving you god mode. The scout and pulse rifles haven't really had a place in the game so the buff is welcomed,I for one am more than happy to see more diversity in the game instead of autorifle/shotgun/fusion. I can actually county on one Hand the amount of times I've been hit by a hand cannon or pulse rifle. If you're so peeved that you actually have to work for your kills than move on,its done for balance,not to keep you god mode cry babies happy

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                    • Such a shame, this game looked like it had potential, hell I even got the limited edition version, and now, I'm utterly disappointed, there's nothing to do once you reach high level and finish your daily and such, it gets boring, pvp gets monotonous as well. The weapons are all -blam!-ed up, certain fusion rifles are OP as hell, many of the "Exotic" weapons are weak in comparison to other low tier weapons. If you gonna nerf a weapon, do it for all of them as in every weapon in PVP should have the same damage output, regardless , as it seem that's what you are trying to do, might as well do it in one go no?. Lets be realistic here, the " 10 year plan" for this game is not going to pan out, hell I would give it maybe 1 year tops, already thousands have returned this game because they saw that it was not worth the money they spend. My friends all have either traded it in or just stopped playing it and moved to Final Fantasy XIV which is a TRUE MMORPG Well this its just my opinion. If you only had stuck with your original idea for the game, it would had been better.

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                    • This is a great breakdown for everyone. While i will admit i dislike the idea of nerfing all these guns it does make sense in one way or another. I am mainly still upset because i heard the Bad JuJu (and Thorn) were getting buffs sometime. I was hoping that would be before all these guns were modified, but I'll wait lol

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                      • [quote]Seriously guys, its a game. Stop acting like its a job.[/quote] Best statement ever!

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                      • When did bungie change their name to bunghole I say crucify them ruin a perfect reward because losers with no friends couldn't get one gun although I might as well say thanks to bungie you've made me into a [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] I now hate all the crying little fag bitches that where just filthy casuals and ruined a well earned reward for the serious gamers who've spent hours in the vault on hard once you get the helmet gun sparrow and ship everything else can be obtained in normal now the Nerf and the gun becomes not even worth the trouble people will get the helmet and say -blam!- it or wish they did once they get it I wouldn't be surprised if xur sells it they've already screwed us on the story by cutting and selling later on the one thing that would've kept me anchored was PvP and the vex with the satisfaction of not just going beast mode but know I spent hours upon hours to EARN the right to go beast mode but the liberal fags like everything else got their pussy blood all over it

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