JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

10/3/2014 7:36:10 PM
16

Why I feel that PvP is poorly balanced

[b]TLDR [/b]– Too many 1hko abilities and poor map selection that primarily only supports CQC. After playing a bunch of PvP I have to say that I find it not very fun and the only reason I do it is for rep and marks. If it wasn't for those two things (or for playing with friends) then I likely wouldn't bother with it at all. The biggest issues are extreme number of 1hko abilities and the maps (there's eight 1hko attacks ignoring the 1hko grenades, with machine guns being on par with others given their damage+ROF). I'll go over everything below and my take on each one, starting with maps. [b]Maps [/b]– Pretty much all of the maps are close quarters maps. Even the larger maps have so much cover, tunnels, etc that one can render medium and long range weapons ineffective for the majority of the fight. What this means is that certain weapons can seem underpowered when in fact they're either fine or overpowered. Likewise, it means that fine or underpowered weapons can seem overpowered because the maps cover up their issues. [b]Primary Weapons[/b] – We already know that changes are on the way for the AR, PR, and SR so there isn't much to say here until the changes are live. Likewise HCs can't really be evaluated until the changes come out. But until then everyone knows that ARs are king of the primaries. [b]Special Weapons[/b] – Really the only weapon here that is even potentially balanced is the shotgun, but more on the individual weapons below. In general these weapons 1-2 hit enemies, ammo is excessively abundant, and the only thing keeping them somewhat in check is that the current maps extremely limit two of them. Ironically it is the design of the maps that makes the third weapon so dominate as the maps cover up the rather large deficiencies of the shotgun. [b]Shotguns[/b]: Mechanics-wise these are balanced to slightly underpowered (especially if you don't have a “Send It” or the increased range when ADS upgrade on the gun). Now how can the most-used special weapon be underpowered mechanics-wise you ask. Easy, because of current map design and familiarity. Throw in practically any Halo map and both the sniper rifle and fusion rifle would blow away the shotgun. But because all the maps either force you into extremely close quarters or have large close quarters sections (allowing you to pretty much force your opponent into CQC for the majority of the match), you never really see the extremely large deficiencies of the shotgun. So then, what needs to happen to balance this gun? First, lower the damage so that it takes either two shots at close range, a shot and a melee strike, or a close/melee range headshot. Second is to increase the range to that of what the gun has with the “Send It” upgrade so that the gun isn't pointless to use on anyone that is outside of melee range (hitting like a limp noodle on someone that is only 6-10 feet in front of you but yet 1-2 shotting at 5 or less is just poor balance). And third would be to add in maps that don't force everyone to fight so close that the lower range actually matters. The point is to have a good CQC gun, lower 1hko abilities in the game, and let the gun still be a threat to things that are close but out of melee range (not the most efficient/effective weapon on these targets, but not so weak that it can be ignored so long as you keep moving). Note that some shotguns “might” have too much range as I haven't tested things like the Universal Remote with its increased range when ADS, but generally speaking, if it wasn't for the current maps people wouldn't be using shotguns that much. Ignoring the round count, to me the Halo:CE has been the best balanced shotgun of all the Bungie games. Deadly at close range, while still being a threat to targets that are a bit further away even though it isn't the most effective of guns for those ranges. [b]Fusion Rifles[/b]: Mechanics-wise these things are overpowered. The majority of them have a short charge time, they can 1hko anything at close range (this “close range” being far longer than a shotgun but still not what I would call medium range), and can still be effective out to the beginning of medium ranges. If it wasn't for the map design so heavily favoring shotguns these things would be the special weapon that everyone would be QQing about. The main change needed is a damage reduction so that the gun takes two shots to kill at the closer ranges and 3-4 at the further end of its effective range. The advantage of this gun over the shotgun is that it has a much further effective range, but isn't as effective at closer targets. [b]Sniper Rifles[/b]: Extreme range, 1-2hko, plentiful ammo, and a game that many complain about the large amount of aim assist. I hope I don't need to explain to you how that is overpowered on a mechanics level in a game already teaming with 1hko abilities. Simply tone these down to either 3 body shots or a body+headshot kills someone and they would likely be balanced. That or move them to the Heavy Weapons category where the ammo is already reasonably limited (though this would have larger PvE ramifications). Also there needs to be more maps that would allow sniper rifles to be used. [b]Heavy Weapons[/b]: Overall I would say that these are reasonably balanced. There might be some out there that need tweaking, but the rarity of the ammo combined with how little ammo you get helps to keep their power in check. Currently they do help contribute to the excessive number of 1hko abilities, but I don't really find them to be an issue from a balance perspective. [b]Ultimates [/b]- These are the worst offenders for 1hko abilities, especially the hunter. I'll go over the individual abilities below, but as a group they are too common and too hard to counter (or flat out impossible the majority of the time). In an eight minute match and if the specials were to activate every three minutes then in clash/control you could theoretically have an ult going off every 25 seconds for the rest of the game starting at the three minute point. Now in-game it isn't likely to happen quite like that, but once you throw in orbs of light, gear that increases super energy, intellect, etc you can still have an excessive number of ults being thrown around once people start to get their ultimates. Short of an overhaul of the majority of the ults, the easiest way to balance it would be to simply disable them in PvP. I don't see that happening so the next best thing would be to work on rebalancing some of the ults and/or lowering the rate that the bar fills up in PvP. Below are what my suggestions would be on how to rebalance them for PvP without them being overpowered. [b]Titan[/b]: [b]Fist of Havoc[/b] – The ability is already an area 1hko that can do things like leave a pulse on the ground that 1hkos, you should be able to be killed during the activation. Also consider dropping the damage to 50% of the peoples HP. That way the Titan (or his team) has to actually do something to kill the person besides just using an ult. Note that this would also mean that the pulses would only do 50% damage (so a hit+pulse would still kill the person if they don't leave the area). [b]Bubble [/b]– I would say that it is generally balanced, but the amount of damage that it can absorb in PvP so that it can reasonably be countered. Would need testing, but something like 2x the HP of the titan (max titan hp, not current hp) so that a person/team can counter it but still let it provide a strong defensive use to the titan and his team. [b]Warlock[/b]: [b]Nova Bomb[/b] – The targeting on this ability is horrible between the switching to third person and the float/drift that your character does during the animation (which can also cause you to float behind cover before it fires). Drop the damage to 50%, fix the targeting issues and it should be good. Enemies could still die to it if they stay in the vortex, get hit by multiple fragments when it splits, etc. [b]Radiance [/b]– This ability feels the most underpowered of the ultimates. While I'm glad that it isn't a 1hko ability, the damage reduction upgrade feels rather underwhelming and the self resurrection takes so long that enemies can either kill you, get away, or regen their health before you can regain control of your character. The damage reduction might be fine once the AR, SR, and PR changes happen, but without seeing them it is hard to say. But the self resurrection needs to faster to even attempt to be on-par with other ultimates. [b]Hunter[/b]: [b]Golden Gun[/b] – A 1hko with the longest range of the ultimates and the ability to kill three enemies, while running around with it activated. Instead change it to six shots from the current three, but make them do 50% damage. That way players can actually respond instead of it being practically an “IWIN” button. [b]Arc Blade[/b] – Nothing seems more overpowered in PvP than this. Which I find kinda ironic since every time I've used it in PvE I've found it to be underwhelming (though my hunter is only lvl10 and unable to use his Mask of the Third Man or the various Arc Blade upgrades). Yes this ability can be wasted if you don't use it smartly, but it can also completely destroy an enemy team moreso than other ults. I'm not sure exactly how to balance this so that it isn't completely gimped for the hunter, while still giving the other players a way to deal with it. Something needs to be done about this ability though. So that's my take on Destiny PvP, why I think it is sub-par, and changes that would help get it to a more enjoyable experience that isn't filled with so much 1hko. If you couldn't tell, I'm really not a fan of all of the 1hko attacks that get thrown around.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

View Entire Topic
  • The "balance" in the game comes from the fact that EVERY player has access to the same weapon classes, and has supers. The Crucible is PvP shooter that rewards the player who is the best tactical thinker. Who can look at a situation and make the best DECISION about how to enter (or NOT enter) into that fight. It is NOT CoD or even Titanfall, where you are allowed to "shoot your way out of" your mistakes. So someone who is really quick and an accurate shooter and compensate for having made a dumb decision. In The Crucible if you make a stupid decision...you're dead. Just that simple. So I have NO problems at all with one-hit kills. If i'm close enough to someone with a shotgun or fusion rifle for them to take me out, and NOT realize they are there..then I deserve it. If I stand still enough for a sniper to put a round in my head without realizing they are there (or seeing the scope flare)...then I deserve it. You DO however have a valid point about the maps. Too many of the maps emphasize CQC at this poitn...and there needs to be a wider variety. I assume that Bungie will address this in the future.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    You are not allowed to view this content.
    ;
    preload icon
    preload icon
    preload icon