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Edited by Zero the Remnant: 9/21/2014 3:23:57 AM
69

In Depth Breakdown on Farming/Grinding

Alright so I'm posting in a futile attempt to explain/educate folks. Before anyone starts. I've been out of town away from my PS4 since Sept 14th. So no...I am not some player trying to give his actions justification. Because I [u]cannot[/u] make any actions till I am back home. I'm a community member hoping to dispel the ire amongst the communities. ______________________ Edit: I will apologize in advance to folks who are offended by my terminology & long winded descriptions. The goal is to explain/educate...which often means making a longer statement with the hope that the message will "click" in the minds of those it seeks to educate. Shorthand/succinct statements often fail to get the mesaage across and can come off as hostile. I am in no means talking down to folks, nor am I saying 1 playstyle is better. ______________________ A brief history on me: I played MMORPGs like: Everquest 1, Everquest 2, Everquest Online Adventures, Phantasy Star Online, World of Warcraft, Star Wars Galaxies, DCUO, FFXI, and at the present...FFXIV. I am mainly a solo player. But I like to do dungeons, hunt rare monsters, and explore vast open worlds in hopes of finding some secrets/treasures. On to Destiny: The biggest issue Destiny faces and will forever face is caused by a breakdown in understanding. You see Destiny attempts to merge 2 very different worlds. The world of sandbox rinse and repeat PVP FPS shooters. And The world of rinse and repeat open world MMORPGs. ______________________ Edit: Since this has caused confusion... Destiny is NOT a MMORPG. Destiny is a FPS perspectived shared world Loot driven dungeon crawler RPG. ______________________ The result is a pile of afterbirth. Gameplay wise it isn't bad...but it isn't good. For example: Classes are different but play nearly the same. Long time RPG players dislike this. Class abilities are tied to your characters stats. Discipline lowers grenade cooldowns & etc. FPS players dislike this. The current breakdown is on the topic of Farming aka: grinding. This originates around the concept of "loot". From the very beginning the idea/concept of "loot" is new to the FPS crowd. (Yes some of them played the Borderlands series. But a lot if not a majority of Destiny's FPS converts have backgrounds hailing from Call of Duty & Battlefield) [u][b]For the sake of sanity and the length of this post I will be focusing on FPS players who have NOT played Borderlands.[/b][/u] I will cover and go into both communities in the interest of fairness... [b][u]FPS[/u][/b]: Here you've got a crowd that is use to loadouts, and specific builds that are premade and fine tuned by the game's developers. But now they are able to truly customize there characters. Gone are the days when customization was choosing your guns & 1 or 2 perks. Now you have "stats", not stats as in a Kill to Death Ratio, how many headshots you have, how many stealth kills, and etc. Now you have Hit Points, Defense, Strength, Discipline, Intellect. They now have to learn new terms and gameplay modifiers. Global Cooldown, Cooldowns, Gear, Loot, Grinding, & of course...Farming. This is all alien to them. [b][u]Grinding[/u][/b]: Yes, to be blunt FPS games are actually Grinding games. You spent all day playing multiplayer to "level up" & unlock new perks, weapons, & skins. That in the MMORPG world is known as grinding. Is it not fun? No. Its obviously fun because the FPS community is HUGE. [b][u]Bottom line[/u]:[/b] It is a grind. Grinding: Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. [b][u]Farming[/u][/b]: Ironically in FPS games the way you level is indeed grinding, and 90% of FPS players are deliberately doing match after match to attain a specific perk/gun/unlock. Now in a lot of FPS games players have to use a specific gun to get a new gun. But in the end they are reoeating the same action untik they get a specific outcome... This is what MMORPG players call... "Farming". But once again...that is not a term FPS players are use to. In an MMORPG. Lots of enemies have unique drops. This means that ONLY that SPECIFIC enemy and/or enemy type can drop the item. Now for longevity purposes the game designers make it so that the drop rate is very low. So like this game's infamous Cryptarch...you only have a 1% chance of getting what you desire when you kill the enemy. This forces the player to kill the enemy over & over again. Like harvesting from a farm field. Example: If a dragon has a 1 in 100 chance to drop a Dragonsword. You may have to kill it 100 times to get it to drop the sword just once. Now the term Farming came about because in MMORPGs in game money was a much more vital resource. So players would find enemies that were numerous and quick to kill and commit mass genocide to loot them for materials and gear to sell to Vendors & other players. Farming: Farming is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to in order to obtain items, relating the activity to tending a farm field. Wait a second.... That definition is a lot like Grinding. It's almost as if...they are one in the same? Or two sides of the same coin. You are CORRECT. Farming is Grinding. Grinding is Farming. Now to our next community.... MMORPG: Now for MMORPG players the issue is not terminology. The issue is behavior and understanding how other perceive it. The majority of the MMORPG community's gripes about Destiny are mainly focused around PVP and this topic is not going to open that section of Pandora's Box. I do not PVP and as a result I doubt anyone would view my words as legitimate as a result. That said...MMORPG players currently do not understand just why so many FPS players feel they are cheating/exploiting. [b][u]Exploit[/u][/b]: This is a term both communities know. Exploit: An Exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers. Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them. Both communities have folks who do this. On the FPS side we have folks who use Gameshark to create exploits, folks who find glitches that make them unkillable, have infinite ammo, teleport around or who glitch through objects so you cannot harm them. Halo 2 had the infamous Sword Launching and etc. In MMORPGs the biggest exploits involved folks finding ways to never run out of resources (mp, rage, magic) or finding a way to where they could attack an enemy (normally a boss) and not be attacked or harmed in return by the said boss. Farming became closely associated with this because alot of exploit using players would use exploits to [i]farm[/i] rare items and sell them for a dramatic profit. In most FPS games...anything that dramatically speeds up your leveling, or unlocks a gun/perk earlier than the norm is viewed as an exploit. Exceptions being: Pre-Order Bonuses, Pay to Win DLC (Not touching this topic). So in the eyes of many FPS players you are trying to get an upperhand on them and are deliberately trying to advance in an illegitimate manner. So they view it as an exploit. In most FPS games when it becomes common knowledge of someone exploiting folks usually ban together to try and take the cheater down. In MMORPGs exploits don't last long as the games are actively patched weekly and/or daily when it comes to bugs, glitches, & exploits. Which brings us to Destiny now... We have folks banning together to stop players from farming npcs because they believe these players are exploiting the game to get ahead. But now that we know our terms and communities. We can solve this mess. Destiny is a game that is designed around grinding/farming at its very core. You grind faction, you grind reputation, you grind xp, you grind for engrams, you grind for glimmer. Or... You farm faction, you farm reputation, you farm xp, you farm for engrams, you farm for glimmer. Same actions. Different words. It pains me to say it but Destiny is all about farming gear. Whether you PVP only or PVE only. Both player types are grinding/farming. So lets all calm down, smoke a cigarette/drink a beer. No one is trying to cheat you. They are just trying to advance their characters.
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#Destiny

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  • Wall of Text. Did Not Read.

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  • Post is wayyyy too long

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  • Nice post bruh. Hopefully CoD players have the patience to read and then understand.

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  • Im sorry but if anyone here actually read this long ass post then i suggest you really think about your life.

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    • The voice of reason.... finally.. we can have peace.

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    • Ok, your point is well made except the "smoke a cigarette" thing at the end; because f' cancer.

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      • [quote]Alright so I'm posting in a futile attempt to explain/educate folks. Before anyone starts. I've been out of town away from my PS4 since Sept 14th. So no...I am not some player trying to give his actions justification. Because I [u]cannot[/u] make any actions till I am back home. I'm a community member hoping to dispel the ire amongst the communities. ______________________ Edit: I will apologize in advance to folks who are offended by my terminology & long winded descriptions. The goal is to explain/educate...which often means making a longer statement with the hope that the message will "click" in the minds of those it seeks to educate. Shorthand/succinct statements often fail to get the mesaage across and can come off as hostile. I am in no means talking down to folks, nor am I saying 1 playstyle is better. ______________________ A brief history on me: I played MMORPGs like: Everquest 1, Everquest 2, Everquest Online Adventures, Phantasy Star Online, World of Warcraft, Star Wars Galaxies, DCUO, FFXI, and at the present...FFXIV. I am mainly a solo player. But I like to do dungeons, hunt rare monsters, and explore vast open worlds in hopes of finding some secrets/treasures. On to Destiny: The biggest issue Destiny faces and will forever face is caused by a breakdown in understanding. You see Destiny attempts to merge 2 very different worlds. The world of sandbox rinse and repeat PVP FPS shooters. And The world of rinse and repeat open world MMORPGs. ______________________ Edit: Since this has caused confusion... Destiny is NOT a MMORPG. Destiny is a FPS perspectived shared world Loot driven dungeon crawler RPG. ______________________ The result is a pile of afterbirth. Gameplay wise it isn't bad...but it isn't good. For example: Classes are different but play nearly the same. Long time RPG players dislike this. Class abilities are tied to your characters stats. Discipline lowers grenade cooldowns & etc. FPS players dislike this. The current breakdown is on the topic of Farming aka: grinding. This originates around the concept of "loot". From the very beginning the idea/concept of "loot" is new to the FPS crowd. (Yes some of them played the Borderlands series. But a lot if not a majority of Destiny's FPS converts have backgrounds hailing from Call of Duty & Battlefield) [u][b]For the sake of sanity and the length of this post I will be focusing on FPS players who have NOT played Borderlands.[/b][/u] I will cover and go into both communities in the interest of fairness... [b][u]FPS[/u][/b]: Here you've got a crowd that is use to loadouts, and specific builds that are premade and fine tuned by the game's developers. But now they are able to truly customize there characters. Gone are the days when customization was choosing your guns & 1 or 2 perks. Now you have "stats", not stats as in a Kill to Death Ratio, how many headshots you have, how many stealth kills, and etc. Now you have Hit Points, Defense, Strength, Discipline, Intellect. They now have to learn new terms and gameplay modifiers. Global Cooldown, Cooldowns, Gear, Loot, Grinding, & of course...Farming. This is all alien to them. [b][u]Grinding[/u][/b]: Yes, to be blunt FPS games are actually Grinding games. You spent all day playing multiplayer to "level up" & unlock new perks, weapons, & skins. That in the MMORPG world is known as grinding. Is it not fun? No. Its obviously fun because the FPS community is HUGE. [b][u]Bottom line[/u]:[/b] It is a grind. Grinding: Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. [b][u]Farming[/u][/b]: Ironically in FPS games the way you level is indeed grinding, and 90% of FPS players are deliberately doing match after match to attain a specific perk/gun/unlock. Now in a lot of FPS games players have to use a specific gun to get a new gun. But in the end they are reoeating the same action untik they get a specific outcome... This is what MMORPG players call... "Farming". But once again...that is not a term FPS players are use to. In an MMORPG. Lots of enemies have unique drops. This means that ONLY that SPECIFIC enemy and/or enemy type can drop the item. Now for longevity purposes the game designers make it so that the drop rate is very low. So like this game's infamous Cryptarch...you only have a 1% chance of getting what you desire when you kill the enemy. This forces the player to kill the enemy over & over again. Like harvesting from a farm field. Example: If a dragon has a 1 in 100 chance to drop a Dragonsword. You may have to kill it 100 times to get it to drop the sword just once. Now the term Farming came about because in MMORPGs in game money was a much more vital resource. So players would find enemies that were numerous and quick to kill and commit mass genocide to loot them for materials and gear to sell to Vendors & other players. Farming: Farming is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to in order to obtain items, relating the activity to tending a farm field. Wait a second.... That definition is a lot like Grinding. It's almost as if...they are one in the same? Or two sides of the same coin. You are CORRECT. Farming is Grinding. Grinding is Farming. Now to our next community.... MMORPG: Now for MMORPG players the issue is not terminology. The issue is behavior and understanding how other perceive it. The majority of the MMORPG community's gripes about Destiny are mainly focused around PVP and this topic is not going to open that section of Pandora's Box. I do not PVP and as a result I doubt anyone would view my words as legitimate as a result. That said...MMORPG players currently do not understand just why so many FPS players feel they are cheating/exploiting. [b][u]Exploit[/u][/b]: This is a term both communities know. Exploit: An Exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers. Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them. Both communities have folks who do this. On the FPS side we have folks who use Gameshark to create exploits, folks who find glitches that make them unkillable, have infinite ammo, teleport around or who glitch through objects so you cannot harm them. Halo 2 had the infamous Sword Launching and etc. In MMORPGs the biggest exploits involved folks finding ways to never run out of resources (mp, rage, magic) or finding a way to where they could attack an enemy (normally a boss) and not be attacked or harmed in return by the said boss. Farming became closely associated with this because alot of exploit using players would use exploits to [i]farm[/i] rare items and sell them for a dramatic profit. In most FPS games...anything that dramatically speeds up your leveling, or unlocks a gun/perk earlier than the norm is viewed as an exploit. Exceptions being: Pre-Order Bonuses, Pay to Win DLC (Not touching this topic). So in the eyes of many FPS players you are trying to get an upperhand on them and are deliberately trying to advance in an illegitimate manner. So they view it as an exploit. In most FPS games when it becomes common knowledge of someone exploiting folks usually ban together to try and take the cheater down. In MMORPGs exploits don't last long as the games are actively patched weekly and/or daily when it comes to bugs, glitches, & exploits. Which brings us to Destiny now... We have folks banning together to stop players from farming npcs because they believe these players are exploiting the game to get ahead. But now that we know our terms and communities. We can solve this mess. Destiny is a game that is designed around grinding/farming at its very core. You grind faction, you grind reputation, you grind xp, you grind for engrams, you grind for glimmer. Or... You farm faction, you farm reputation, you farm xp, you farm for engrams, you farm for glimmer. Same actions. Different words. It pains me to say it but Destiny is all about farming gear. Whether you PVP only or PVE only. Both player types are grinding/farming. So lets all calm down, smoke a cigarette/drink a beer. No one is trying to cheat you. They are just trying to advance their characters.[/quote] Throw me a friend's request [u][/u]for the sake we've played all the same mmorpgs! Eq1, 2, wow, rift, bf4, tlou 26 Warlock- Turriel

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      • As a fellow MMORPG player, I agree with this, except for one point. People farming the cave are fine. People who stand around afk are not. They are exploiting the fact that loot drops for all nearby players regardless of participation. Right now, I guess Bungie are enabling them to use this exploit as it's in the game mechanics. Personally, I think they should've made it so that loot only drops from mobs that you or at least your fireteam have hit at least once.

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        • I'm bost a mmorpg and a fps player so I gotta say you nailed the hammer on the head with this. Very well made post. I just hope both parties read this and stop fighting.

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          • Edited by Xeru_sama: 9/22/2014 10:33:58 PM
            best post ever! mate you are my soulmate (nothing funky :P ) i totally agree :) But i like destiny :D and i will like it always :P ( besides i think the story is cool :D and i really hope they will expand the story in DLCs)

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          • Look at this novel Im not reading lol wtf

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          • So many words. So little time. Good effert none the less.

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          • That pile of shit was painful to read.

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            • 100% agree I'm primarily a FPS player, but I do have MMORPGS experience (Ultima Online, STKOTOR, WoW). Faing and grinding are the same thing I just see grinding as doing it for a longer time period. I don't know this infamous "cheat spot" everybody is raving about lately on Earth but what I do understand is that: it's an area where enemies spawn rapidly, they are easy to kill (think boars from SouthPark WoW episode) and they drop engrams like all other characters do. Just maybe at a slightly lower rate. Big deal, unless they have found a location that is dropping a very high rate of good stuff when they shouldn't be. That would be the only time it's an exploit. [spoiler]so yeah, I agree lol people just have their panties in a bunch over anything these days[/spoiler]

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            • It's not false that when I spend a few hours "running around" Venus, or any planet, doing patrols, gathering mats, opening every chest i see, doing bounties and public events, it's a kind of farming / grinding. It's just a more active way to do it and maybe a less efficient one. But for me, there's no reason to rush. Also I wonder, when farmers will get all the legendary and exotic they want, won't they stop playing ? All their goals will be attained. What will keep them playing ? People, help me understand, please.

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              • Sorry but they didn't make this game to please 1 group of people. Being in a console there are limits and they made the game they wanted to. This is you're opinion and you're definitely entitled to it, but I personally love the game. It's like a more in depth Halo with way more content...and that's a good thing IMO.

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                • Excellent post, however I fear many of the people actually complaining about this do not have the attention span needed to read the entire post

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                  • Awesome. Cod / Battlefield player just learned a ton . Thanks

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                  • Exactly what I already knew but couldn't even begin to put it in to words, and lay it out for folks. Great post, man.

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                  • i my self like to mix both worlds , but i must say well done [ 10 OUT OF 10 ]

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                  • TL;DR but I saw the PSO part! I still have my dreamcast and PSO we should team up and take a stroll down memory lane.

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                    • You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. You've very clearly and politely made your point in the simplest manner. Unfortunately I already understand this so it did me little good I did appreciate the professor vibe you put off as though you were giving a lecture at a university. Well done, well done.

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                    • Edited by OmizzDontMiss: 9/21/2014 7:57:28 PM
                      tl;dr but got far enough to understand the reason I love this game is because Im one of the people who have played FPSs [i]and[/i] RPGs their whole life.

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