JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by JamesButlin: 9/19/2014 9:56:52 AM
16

I'd like to hear Bungie's opinion on Farming/Exploits?

As I can see that a lot of people are getting in to farming as opposed to grinding for loot, exploiting the repetitive spawning patterns of certain enemy types to gain glimmer and loot, I would like to see Bungie's opinion on this? As the loot system is new to a Bungie game, I'd like to know how lenient they are towards it or if they have plans to either ban people or simply patch away the exploits (hopefully the latter!). Obviously I prefer to actually play the game as intended rather than performing the same tasks over and over and over but hey that's just me. EDIT: For those of you that think I have a problem with people going around the map and grabbing spinmetal or other resources, that's not what I meant by exploits - more like [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eou-dU-kJqs]this[/url].

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I take no credit for this(as in this not my work,I'm merely posting what someone else commented on), this should help with the situation that is happening between MMO and FPS gamers... [quote]Alright so I'm posting in a futile attempt to explain/educate folks. Before anyone starts. I've been out of town away from my PS4 since Sept 14th. So no...I am not some player trying to give his actions justification. Because I cannot make any actions till I am back home. I'm a community member hoping to dispel the ire amongst the communities. ______________________ Edit: I will apologize in advance to folks who are offended by my terminology & long winded descriptions. The goal is to explain/educate...which often means making a longer statement with the hope that the message will "click" in the minds of those it seeks to educate. Shorthand/succinct statements often fail to get the mesaage across and can come off as hostile. I am in no means talking down to folks, nor am I saying 1 playstyle is better. ______________________ A brief history on me: I played MMORPGs like: Everquest 1, Everquest 2, Everquest Online Adventures, Phantasy Star Online, World of Warcraft, Star Wars Galaxies, DCUO, FFXI, and at the present...FFXIV. I am mainly a solo player. But I like to do dungeons, hunt rare monsters, and explore vast open worlds in hopes of finding some secrets/treasures. On to Destiny: The biggest issue Destiny faces and will forever face is caused by a breakdown in understanding. You see Destiny attempts to merge 2 very different worlds. The world of sandbox rinse and repeat PVP FPS shooters. And The world of rinse and repeat open world MMORPGs. ______________________ Edit: Since this has caused confusion... Destiny is NOT a MMORPG. Destiny is a FPS perspectived shared world Loot driven dungeon crawler RPG. ______________________ The result is a pile of afterbirth. Gameplay wise it isn't bad...but it isn't good. For example: Classes are different but play nearly the same. Long time RPG players dislike this. Class abilities are tied to your characters stats. Discipline lowers grenade cooldowns & etc. FPS players dislike this. The current breakdown is on the topic of Farming aka: grinding. This originates around the concept of "loot". From the very beginning the idea/concept of "loot" is new to the FPS crowd. (Yes some of them played the Borderlands series. But a lot if not a majority of Destiny's FPS converts have backgrounds hailing from Call of Duty & Battlefield) For the sake of sanity and the length of this post I will be focusing on FPS players who have NOT played Borderlands. I will cover and go into both communities in the interest of fairness... FPS: Here you've got a crowd that is use to loadouts, and specific builds that are premade and fine tuned by the game's developers. But now they are able to truly customize there characters. Gone are the days when customization was choosing your guns & 1 or 2 perks. Now you have "stats", not stats as in a Kill to Death Ratio, how many headshots you have, how many stealth kills, and etc. Now you have Hit Points, Defense, Strength, Discipline, Intellect. They now have to learn new terms and gameplay modifiers. Global Cooldown, Cooldowns, Gear, Loot, Grinding, & of course...Farming. This is all alien to them. Grinding: Yes, to be blunt FPS games are actually Grinding games. You spent all day playing multiplayer to "level up" & unlock new perks, weapons, & skins. That in the MMORPG world is known as grinding. Is it not fun? No. Its obviously fun because the FPS community is HUGE. Bottom line: It is a grind. Grinding: Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. Farming: Ironically in FPS games the way you level is indeed grinding, and 90% of FPS players are deliberately doing match after match to attain a specific perk/gun/unlock. Now in a lot of FPS games players have to use a specific gun to get a new gun. But in the end they are reoeating the same action untik they get a specific outcome... This is what MMORPG players call... "Farming". But once again...that is not a term FPS players are use to. In an MMORPG. Lots of enemies have unique drops. This means that ONLY that SPECIFIC enemy and/or enemy type can drop the item. Now for longevity purposes the game designers make it so that the drop rate is very low. So like this game's infamous Cryptarch...you only have a 1% chance of getting what you desire when you kill the enemy. This forces the player to kill the enemy over & over again. Like harvesting from a farm field. Example: If a dragon has a 1 in 100 chance to drop a Dragonsword. You may have to kill it 100 times to get it to drop the sword just once. Now the term Farming came about because in MMORPGs in game money was a much more vital resource. So players would find enemies that were numerous and quick to kill and commit mass genocide to loot them for materials and gear to sell to Vendors & other players. Farming: Farming is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to in order to obtain items, relating the activity to tending a farm field. Wait a second.... That definition is a lot like Grinding. It's almost as if...they are one in the same? Or two sides of the same coin. You are CORRECT. Farming is Grinding. Grinding is Farming. Now to our next community.... MMORPG: Now for MMORPG players the issue is not terminology. The issue is behavior and understanding how other perceive it. The majority of the MMORPG community's gripes about Destiny are mainly focused around PVP and this topic is not going to open that section of Pandora's Box. I do not PVP and as a result I doubt anyone would view my words as legitimate as a result. That said...MMORPG players currently do not understand just why so many FPS players feel they are cheating/exploiting. Exploit: This is a term both communities know. Exploit: An Exploit (colloquially sploit) is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers. Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them. Both communities have folks who do this. On the FPS side we have folks who use Gameshark to create exploits, folks who find glitches that make them unkillable, have infinite ammo, teleport around or who glitch through objects so you cannot harm them. Halo 2 had the infamous Sword Launching and etc. In MMORPGs the biggest exploits involved folks finding ways to never run out of resources (mp, rage, magic) or finding a way to where they could attack an enemy (normally a boss) and not be attacked or harmed in return by the said boss. Farming became closely associated with this because alot of exploit using players would use exploits to farm rare items and sell them for a dramatic profit. In most FPS games...anything that dramatically speeds up your leveling, or unlocks a gun/perk earlier than the norm is viewed as an exploit. Exceptions being: Pre-Order Bonuses, Pay to Win DLC (Not touching this topic). So in the eyes of many FPS players you are trying to get an upperhand on them and are deliberately trying to advance in an illegitimate manner. So they view it as an exploit. In most FPS games when it becomes common knowledge of someone exploiting folks usually ban together to try and take the cheater down. In MMORPGs exploits don't last long as the games are actively patched weekly and/or daily when it comes to bugs, glitches, & exploits. Which brings us to Destiny now... We have folks banning together to stop players from farming npcs because they believe these players are exploiting the game to get ahead. But now that we know our terms and communities. We can solve this mess. Destiny is a game that is designed around grinding/farming at its very core. You grind faction, you grind reputation, you grind xp, you grind for engrams, you grind for glimmer. Or... You farm faction, you farm reputation, you farm xp, you farm for engrams, you farm for glimmer. Same actions. Different words. It pains me to say it but Destiny is all about farming gear. Whether you PVP only or PVE only. Both player types are grinding/farming. So lets all calm down, smoke a cigarette/drink a beer. No one is trying to cheat you. They are just trying to advance their characters."[/quote]

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • The problem isn't the method. Killing spawning mobs is nothing new for online games, its the loot tables. The biggest problem is that the tables seem to be mostly the same regardless of level. If they simply capped the blue drops to lvl 15+ and legendary to 20+ and exotics to 24+ there would be an issue.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    3 Replies
    • Farming is grinding.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Farming was in the beta and if Bungie was concerned, that tactic wouldn't even be possible.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • You are a fool if you think Bungie didn't purposely make enemies and chest respawn so quickly. Imagine if after all enemies are killed they don't respawn for 10-15 minutes, same with chests. The game would be pathetic, why? Because on your arrival to a planet you would find nothing as the team that was just their 2 minutes before you wiped and took everything. Now you have another 13 minutes of sitting around doing nothing waiting for things to respawn so you can do something other then look at the scenery

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      5 Replies
      • Edited by Sixclicks: 9/18/2014 1:18:45 PM
        I've spent a couple of hours farming Ishtar Commons now, and I have yet to get anything really of interest. The vast majority of the drops are just worthless greens. I've never had a legendary engram from farming mobs, but I did have a blue turn into a legendary when I identified it. It's honestly not really worth it imo unless you're really lucky. I get better stuff playing Rumble in the Crucible since it seems to be the fastest game mode. Plus the Crucible isn't boring as hell. Although it can be extremely frustrating when everyone is sliding around with a shotgun constantly. It's just as bad as drop shotting imo. I pretty much only farm mobs now for quick XP to level my gear. That said, I would really like to see the loot drops get better as you move up through higher level mobs. There's no reason that level 1 mobs should give you the same chance at loot as a level 20+. It's almost like there's no point in doing heroics when your target is loot.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • I think that there's ups and downs to the farming idea. The up is obviously being able to get a heap of drops and glimmer efficiently, but there are a few downsides, the main one being the lack of fun. You sit there for half an hour, maybe even more, in the same spot, or doing the same circuit, to get 'better at the game' (really you're just getting xp and drops, neither of which correlate to skill). That is definitely not fun, well atleast for most players. The only good reason I see for the hate on farming is that the people who do it aren't playing the game for fun. For me, it's the attitude that's wrong. We don't play games to impress others or to be the best, we play them to have fun. "But they're exploiting the system!" No, that's not exploiting the system, they are working for the drops and cash just the same as the people who grind by doing strikes, patrols, and crucible. They've worked through ages of boredom to get good stuff, and they're not even able to work towards legendary gear by gaining marks and rep. You can probably tell from what I've said that I don't think farming should be removed. No, I don't farm, I hate the idea of it because of how boring I know it'll be. I grind by doing strikes and patrols, which are actually fun.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        3 Replies
        • Don't think it's exploiting to farm. Destiny has always been about allowing people to play the game how they want and not to be forced into any one mode. Personally I do kind of shake my head when I read all kinds of threads obsessing about farming routes. To me these are probably the same people complaining about how the game is so repetitive and not fun. I just don't get this generation of gamers. I feel like people rush through as fast as they can, find out the fastest way to get the highest level and best gear, but at the expense of fun. I actually read someone saying if they weren't high enough to do the raid the day it launched they may quit. Blew my mind. I have all the time in the world to do that. Probably won't attempt for another month at least. Personally I find the 'most efficient' means are often the least fun and the game becomes more of a job or chore. After I hit 20 I will still likely just run missions or strikes and whatever I get, I get. Spend too much time worrying about not getting certain items and it will kill the game for me. I would say it's ok to mix in a bit of that, but not all the time.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • I did a lot of patrol missions yesterday on various planets and got more engrams slaying enemies that way, then I have in my 1 and only farming session (i.e. Shooting the same 3 enemies that come out of that cave on Earth's Skywatch area), so that's how I like to farm, just do patrols, get your Vanguard rank up, and hope engrams drop.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 Reply
            • A lot of console gamers are new to mmo's it seems... THIS IS WHAT YOU DO! There is little difference between "farming"a spot or farming a whole mission. There isn't a whole lot to do you know.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • I'm with you friend! I don't want this game to become my second job:P I like just kicking alien ass with my fellow guardians! If I do so happen to stumble on some loot so be it!

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • As a long time farmer in several games I can say that farming is grinding for loot. The way the game is set up is that drops from any mob, be they level 1 or level 20+ is the same. And guess what, I'm also doing stirke and public event missions and patrols and the campaign. It's in my nature to game the game, and if a game gives me the opportunity to fight lower level mobs to get the same stuff I can from fighting +5s? Then I'm going to take the lower level mobs every time. Bungie is often quoted as saying "We make games we want to play!" That means, when they set up the spawning system, they knew how it could be exploited, and they didn't care. As I've said before, if Bungie patches this current farming system, an hour after the patch, someone will post a Youtube video with an alternative farm.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • how do you expect ppl to upgrade their legendary and exotic pieces? some of them require 60+ pieces of spinmetal and things like that to gain a perk.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • I spend most of my time playing missions and have never been one to care a lot about what other people do with their time. So perhaps something is going on in this "farming" thing that I'm unaware of. However, how boring would it be to do patrol missions if the enemy didn't respawn? Sure you could lower the frequency of those respawns but you have to remember that the folks in free roam and the folks playing actual missions are all playing in the same lobby. Cutting down respawns for free roamers also means cutting down the number of minions available for mission players to kill on their way to the boss. Talk about killing the better part of what makes missions fun. So I wouldn't put my focus on the respawn patterns. What you could do is cap the glimmer, etc for an event but then that would devalue the special glimmer boosting items that we pick up along the way. So for what I can think of anyway, changing the system would have more unintended consequences than good. Obviously I'm not a Bungie dev (or any dev for that matter). So I can't speak for them but I suspect that the random nature of the rewards is how they chose to deal with the "farming" issue. When purple gun engrams are giving out green pieces of armor, you have to think either somebody in coding is an idiot or this was done purposefully. The only reason that I can think of to do it purposefully is to negate the usefulness of farming to get better weapons and gear. I suspect that this is their answer to farming exploits.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              4 Replies
              • The only time I used the spawning for my advantage is for bounties. Besides that, I like going around the map while killing everything.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • Honestly? We all bought the game, if they gave a shit what you do in it, outside of gamebreaking mechanics, I'd be suprised.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              You are not allowed to view this content.
              ;
              preload icon
              preload icon
              preload icon