I think all the people who believe MM should be added should be obligated to go play LFR on wow for 5 hours. This'll show them what to expect from MM in destiny for raids and they'll quickly change their opinions once they see all the trolls, baddies, AFKers, etc. You don't know annoyance until you've done wow LFR. MM is ftl in raiding.

Ah, so typical elitist bull shit, nice to see that the PC MMO crap has migrated and now pollutes a new game with it's asinine stupidity. [u][b]Warning heavy sarcasm:[/b][/u] [b]Random people will be under equipped?[/b] Riiiiight so considering the raids are going to be endgame content it's almost a certainty they are going to be lvl locked more than likely lvl 20+ or until they complete the main game missions. If they are lvl 20 players, apparently Bungie is too stupid when it comes to designing their lvls to balance them so lvl 20 players can play them, is that what you're saying? Only the elite players can play them correct? Doesn't matter if I have a full Vanguard armor, legendary weapons earned and hit lvl 20, if you don't accept random people on your friends list who you've never met, talked to or played with you're just shit out of luck right? That's the situation that's being fostered. *slow clap* bravo, bravo. Edit: apparently raids are lvl locked until lvl25, thanks for correcting me. It just hammers the point home even more really. [b]But you can spend time organising and getting friends using the forums, raids are serious buzinuss guyz!. [/b] Yeah, because what this game needs is another bunch of elitist dicks who put walls in place when it comes to joining clans and a raiding becomes a mind numbing bore, about as futile as herding a group of cats. So Raids are restricted to the 1% of people who have enough time to organise their friends into groups a week in advance. Everyone else who has responsibilities or has made friends with people in other time zones, -blam!- them right? They're not dedicated enough to sit for 4 hours on a forum organising instead of playing the game, so they're not good enough. So the hell what if they paid for the game, filthy casuals I believe they're called right? Also we'll just ignore that this early into a console generation, this game is now going to be split across 4 different consoles, or the fact that numerous people have swapped console. The fragmentation of the user base is just a figment of our imagination. [b]MM can't be in it, or it needs to be easier and gear needs a nerf.[/b] Wow, I see the ego stroking is strong here. Aren't you the special snow flake? It's not as if numerous fire teams just need extras to fill in the gap. No one makes friends just by getting to know random people by playing with them before making a friend request. Clearly only the "best" deserve to be rewarded because they had enough time to waste organising blocks of time a month in advance, right? Everyone who plays raids without friends or without enough is just a scrub looking to be carried, it's not as if they're high lvl but don't have the option or inclination to trawl through forums to find a game. I'm just being silly right? Couldn't it be that there's no in game clan support, the tower only supports 16 players, there's no effective chat or social feature which would mitigate any of this. Naaaahhh. [b]People will complain and want it nerfed[/b] Yeah, because people don't do that already, with everything. Adding MM will instantly create that, where as if it's not there all the elite players can live in a Utopian fantasy where no one complains about difficulty. Tell me how that's worked in the past? [b] Designed so only elite teams can play no scrubs allowed[/b] Oh, so unless people arbitrarily add random players and manually invite randoms to a raid they're morons clearly playing with their feet and drooling down the mic. Thanks, I thought other players doing end game content and packing high lvl gear were actually ready for a challenge. Silly me. It's not as if anyone ever talks on a mic, or asks if someone else has one. Glad we cleared that up. [b]But people will fail[/b] Really? Really? we're all so entitled the instant that players with hours and hours of play time, the best equipment and gear fail they'll will pitch a fit. Have you played Dark Souls 1 and 2, possibly the most brutal game in the last 10 years. Clearly we're all masochists. My reserves of sarcasm and bile are running low for now, but I think that covers most of the daft arguments I've seen. .

ok mr popular

i dont care either way, but i do see a solution that would make everyone happy. Make Normal mode for raids just a touch easier than it is now. Allow for randomized matchmaking, and adjust the difficulty so that even a somewhat uncoordinated group can still make their way through using sheer force of will. It will be tough, likely the toughest activity in the game, but it will still at least be possible to attempt, rather than locked away unless you wrangle five friends in real life or via outside forums. leave Hard mode locked for these hardcore clan/friend groups. Make it as insanely tough as you want, and have those groups struggle and plan and strategize in order to make it through. Shower them with more loot at the end so it’s still worth the attempt, just allow all players to at least experience the instances, even if they’re not as dedicated to the cause as you would like them to be.i see that as a win win for everyone

Elitism at its finest, look Bungie can do what they want with Destiny which is looking like a theme park at this point. We have a choice to buy or not buy to play or not play but they need to explain a lot more why wouldn't they want matchmaking for Raid so casual people won't waste their money or time being frustrated about the circumstance. Are the raids going to drop supreme loot you will only find in that dungeon which are just like mmorpgs? Do we need to participate in this raid to get one of a kind items for crafting weapons or armor like mmorpgs ? I play mmorpgs but I will drop them for Destiny if the right situation presents itself. I would join a small guild or static for it in the future if we can cooperate if the rewards are right. Also in mmorpgs there is matchmaking in raids and they do work out when you just want to play and most of your guild or static are busy or not playing. Why doesn't Bungie just create a system guild for raids? If the boss or stage mechanics for the raid are going to be high difficulty then just let the players know otherwise casual players unfamiliar with mmorpgs will may not like Destiny and that feedback will be great. The more I look at Destiny the more it seems to be more like a mmorpg, shooter, action, adventure type of genre. I hope they don't become arrogant and not listen to the gamers feedback about some of the issues.

Please take this under consideration... I completely understand why people and even devs of Destiny don't want matchmaking for raids; its hard to do without any communication. People don't want MM for this because they don't want randoms in their group. Please take a minute to think about this: If you've got the time to get your friends online, then by ALL means go ahead, dont cockblock those who want the matchmaking.... Let them struggle.... You want to make groups for yourself and your benifits, then DO IT!! Nobody is saying no, matchmaking is the OPTION!! Do you guys know what that means? OPTION? OPTION: the power or right of choosing. <- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/option?s=t which means you can choose between making a team for yourself and going with randoms. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO GO WITH RANDOMS!!! its like saying I dont want to go swimming and you shouldn't either... act of being selfish [i could do this but you can't type of thing] [please don't hate, if you do ill take it as you don't understand wtf im saying] Thank you.

Fact this not wow, fact people need the option to pick MM if someone dose not 5 others to raid with. Fact this is not wow gear dose not matter. Welcome to a game that is not wow! Get used to it!

MM for raids is perfectly fine as long as people are prepared to fail, because once the raid starts and you have your randos you will fail probably a lot, you'll probably fail with team built specifically for it. And a lot of these guys calling for MM right now are going to be calling for a raid nerf when they can't beat it. So all I really have to say is, implement MM but don't be bitch and call for a nerf when it's too hard

DC universe had matchmaking with raids and it worked out well (well for me at least) when i leveled up to max lvl and figured out i needed these marks to get these powerful gear which would lvl up ur character stats (kind of like these motes of light i keep hearing about in destiny). There were daily missions that gives u like 2 marks and jobs that give u 5 (10 if ur lucky) and raids gave like 10 or 20 plus really awesome gear. I didn't finish every raid i went in but if i made it half way i would still get awesome dropped by the NPC. Also since i was new to these raids and crap i didnt know ppl that would help me or anything. I meet these ppl that would help me with raids through random match making and would sometimes play with them in many raids. My point is yea your right raids would be crap with random ppl. But since this concept is new to some console players they should put in matchmaking or someway to get in touch with ppl that know how to do these raids so they can help these new players and these new fresh lvl 20s can teach the next batch and so no.( sorry for the lengthy comment) PS. raids on DC universe look like 3 hours to finish and i heard some raids in WoW is like 7 ppl shouldn't play them if they don't have time.

I would like to address two arguments I commonly see: 1. Everything in the base game should be accessible for no extra effort. [spoiler]This is false in the case of Destiny. Bungie has said that everyone is supposed to find their own preferred things to do in Destiny, and that they have made some content for everybody. If it's too hard to find friends to go on a raid, then do a strike![/spoiler] 2. It doesn't change the raid to have the option. [spoiler] The problem is that the vision of what Bungie wants to be a raid would be changed. When people say it would be nerfed, they don't mean the flat difficulty level. They mean that adding accessibility completely changed the dynamic of a raid, turning it into a strike. For example, WoW. Examples of changes that would need to be made to make the raid fully accessible include: 1. Shortening the raid so that people don't have to spend as much time on it (since they don't have enough time to find friends and plan for it 2. Watering down cooperative communication based challenges so that they can be done without communication 3. Somehow dealing with rage quitters that leave mid match by allowing people to drop in mid match? Otherwise all your progress is screwed. But if someone joins mid match, when they finish the raid, they didn't do the full raid. So they don't deserve all the end loot. But then people will want all the end loot and not want to be dropped in halfway. So if they are dropped in halfway, they also quit. [/spoiler] While I was originally for matchmaking, I think I trust Bungie enough and want them to create the content that they envisioned. Not to be forced to do a completely different thing because people scrutinize a game that isn't even released.

You can't really compare a FPS raid to a WoW style raid. In WoW its all about memorization and positioning. There really isn't "skill" involved because for a given boss action you have to perform a very specific counter or wipe. It's like playing guitar hero on very hard. You can't present it that way in a FPS because the enemies by the very nature of the game type have to be more dynamic. There aren't tank/healer/dps so your grouping is more dependent on the skill of the individual than the make up of the group. So comparing to a regular MMo raid is not going to work. Additionally, the rationale that it will have to be nerfed for the bulk of players if it's given a mm option is entirely based on the assumption that Bungie would nerf it. If your worried about nerf complaints you are still going to get them and a lot of them. People will still pug, people will spam tower invites to pug, they will spam the forum to pug, and all you've done is create an additional layer between the people who paid for the game and end game.

Having two options for raids - one for matchmaking and one for friends and allowing players to play their own way would be preferable, but Bungie seems to be suggesting raids are only possible with friends because they are too difficult - random strangers are apparently too dense. By making the difficulty of raids configurable, providing an initial test as a mediator for the player's ability, or making the short-term problems negligible, they can increase the accessibility of raids and give players the option to play the way they want. I imagine Bungie's 6-friend-requirement for raids worked brilliantly in the office but when applied to the real world and to real people who have schedules, work, and families this entry-barrier I suspect will pose a significant problem.