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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by ObiFett: 8/1/2014 5:29:48 AM
88

No Raid MM is Bad because of Other Missing Social Features

Edit: Quick Summary - The uproar about no Raid Matchmaking is because on one hand Bungie says we should only play with friends for endgame, but on the other hand they haven't given us tools to leverage clans or make friends. Many players will be stuck between a rock and a hard place come endgame if one of the two issues isn't fixed. I get the idea behind not wanting to group up randoms to put them into a Raid. It makes sense. There are a ton of posts about it. The answer is for people to make friends in game throughout the process of playing and then they will eventually have a group to attempt the Raid with. OR join a clan and run the Raid with them. However, there is no easy way to make friends in this game. Here are our current methods and problems with them [b](I am not including the forums because the majority of players will never touch Bungie.net and the forums)[/b]: [b]Invite to Fireteam[/b] - The idea behind this is strong. Are you out in the world doing an activity and see someone doing the same thing? Awesome, invite them to a fireteam so you can use fireteam chat and work together. Maybe you will make a friend that will want to run endgame content with you when you reach that point. But there are oh so many problems... [i]Problems[/i]- When you joins a fireteam it shoots you back to orbit. How many people are gonna want to group up midway through an activity, only to have to go to orbit, come back down, and then travel back to the activity? Zero. A couple times of people dealing with that and they won't use this feature anymore. Which means people aren't going to be making friends. Additionally, I could never find where the fireteam settings were in game. I looked multiple times, but could never figure out how to "open" up my fireteam and make it public. [i]Solution[/i] - Don't force Orbit when joining fireteams. Make it easier to change fireteam settings. [b]PvP[/b] - I have made so many friends this way over the years in the various halos and such. I go into PvP by myself, find a good group, join their party and then we rock out for the rest of night. I add them to my friends list and there we go. This should be a powerful way to make friends in this game [i]Problems[/i] - There is no voice chat by default in PvP. And to get into a fireteam in the middle of PvP means you have to stop and go through the whole process mid-match, wasting valuable time. No one will do this. Which means post-match, who is going to want to add anyone to their friends list after a long chat-less game? Again, no one will. [i]Solutions[/i] - Automatic PvP team chat. Period. Full stop. This should already be in game and allow players to communicate and find friends and/or communicate that they want to join fireteams. [b]Tower/Social Emoting[/b] - So the idea with this is that we are all in a social hub interacting and dancing during downtime. This will be a great way to meet people. We can dance, sit, wave, and point. Good stuff. This is a nudge in the right direction. [i]Problems[/i] - With only 4 ways to emote, asking players to make friends and recruit for Raids is like asking NCAA College Coaches to recruit for their teams solely through Miming. Good luck with that. [i]Solution[/i] - More emotes. Let a player tag themselves with a flag that shows they are looking for a Raid/PvP/Strike/Exploration group so likeminded players can find them and group up. [b]Clans[/b] - This is probably the most promising way to make sure people have other players to do content with. Clans offer instant friends and a group of like-minded people to call upon when you are looking to do content that requires a group. [i]Problems[/i] - Clans are currently only joinable on this website. And even then, when in game, there is no listing of which of your clanmates are online! So players who don't frequent bungie.net (>75% of the playerbase) won't even know how to get into a clan. Those who do get into a clan, will have to go through the hassle of adding and removing friends from their friendlist to keep up with clanmates coming and going. [i]Solution[/i] - Have a clan player listing in the game. List who is online and maybe even implement a clan voice chat room so people can jump in and ask around about grouping. [b]Console Messaging[/b] - The most unwieldy and time consuming of all the ways to communicate with other players, players can send messages to each other in all of the zones. This would allow strong communication of intention to other players and hopefully lead to fireteam invites (with all of its problems) and eventually adding them to your network of friends. [i]Problems[/i] - This is incredibly time consuming and even takes the player out of the game most of the time. Typing on a controller is ridiculous and most of the time the other player has probably moved on by the time you've finished the message and sent it. This is not even considering that many players probably don't want to receive spam message constantly from other players while they are performing their activities. [i]Solution[/i] - Implement an in-game messaging system complete with default message capability. That way you could send a quick "Wanna Raid?" to a player. Doesn't solve the spam issue, but could solve the inherent problems with messaging on a controller. Overall, the ways to meet and actually connect with random people in this game is incredibly low and poor. In order to increase your player network to eventually have enough players to do Raids, the game literally gives you zero useful tools to do it.[u] If Bungie is not going to include Raid MM (which they shouldn't) then they definitely need to improve the above systems.[/u] I think the majority of the frustration with the lack of Raid MM comes from most people realizing that they aren't given any other effective ways in game to meet people and make friends. The current implementation is made to make it as hard as possible to communicate with others which in turns makes it impossible to make friends, which makes people frustrated at the lack of Raid MM. Bungie, either fix communication in the game OR add Raid MM. Otherwise many players who have the skill/gear to do Raids but lack the friends to run it with will run into frustration when they realize they were prevented from making friends and have no easy way to make friends in the game.

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  • We need ways to communicate in game. The website and forums should be a supplement not a requirement.

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    • Edited by DEZARATH: 8/2/2014 12:58:59 AM
      I like the idea of a visual indicator over your head signaling you're available for a raid or other functions in the game. That or there's a hall or construct of some type in the Tower where players could congregate in specifically for forming Raiding parties.

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    • It's encouraging to finally see a sensible post directing attention to the underlying problem with Destiny's "play with your friends" vision for Raids. Kudos for not turning this into another "matchmaking is our salvation/destruction" rehash. It's great if you already have five friends that (1) own the same console you'll be using, (2) plan to purchase Destiny, (3) are interested in endgame content, (4) will be online and willing to join you whenever you're available to play, (5) can reliably commit two or more hours to a game session, (6) will never miss a play date if the Raid requires multiple nights, (7) are down to queue up again next week (and the week after, and the week after) to help you get the gear/achievements/whatever that you still want/need, and (8) won't lose interest in the game before you do. Go forth and conquer! On the other hand, if you are one of the thousands upon thousands of people who aren't blessed with such remarkable good fortune, you are going to need some actual tools to help get a six-man fireteam off the ground and/or fill gaps when someone can't make it. These forums are an absolute mess when it comes to separating wheat from chaff, and I completely agree that bungie.net will almost certainly be ignored by a majority of the players you run into out in the wild. Four emotes spammed at 15 random people in the Tower is unlikely to produce a viable group (at least, not one that's any more viable than any automated matchmaking scheme). Joining a clan helps, but it in no way guarantees that you can put a team together that fits your schedule, much less your play style and personality, especially since support for clan communication is limited to forum activity. It's just a bizarre mess of poorly implemented (or, in some cases, just flat out missing) social features for a game that is so heavily promoting social ties. In my experience as an MMORPG raider (as both a leader and a follower), I found that the most difficult part of any group content was just getting the group through the front door; everything else ultimately boils down to practice and execution. Destiny seems to offer little to help reduce administrative overhead so players can just get on with the good stuff. I'm all for Raids being hard, but setting up a fireteam shouldn't be.

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      • IMO people are being too skittish. Take some risks! Invite someone to your fire team, accept an invite, see if you like playing with them or don't. Fill out the motto section of your Bungie profile, so people can get an impression about you - you can also check people's recent posts to get an idea about them. Also, there are forums here that all of us, obviously use, it is filled with clans of all different interest levels. Join one, or make one! This doesn't need to be made any "easier", I think if the people who share your opinion realize this you may come away from this game having gained some REAL LIFE skills. Social skills. Feeling awkward? Become the founder an awkward clan! Not visiting Bungie.net? You probably should, if you're interested in Destiny the way it is supposed to be played. If you are unwilling to put forth effort to be social, and do social things that you are interested in, then why should the game make that easier for you? Not everything, is for everyone - but I honestly think there is enough for the culture to use to work itself out. In the future, I am sure there will be a system of memes and moires we will all create together made up of the parts that are available (sitting in a certain area of the tower means you are looking for team members for X, etc). What we create, will be what works best given the circumstances. I'm not sweating it, but then again I have gone through the trouble of finding a gaming community who suits my play style.

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        • I think people are missing one key thing about making friends on the console. It's done using the consoles features, like the recently played with option. You also have the ability to fire anyone a message and if you forgot their name, you can load up the summary of your last play through. The social aspects that everyone happens to be demanding are built in features of the console itself. This is why bungie did not have to add it in game, but link it through the view profile option. So play strikes and pvp, use the message system to get to know them and add them to your friends list. It's not that difficult at all.

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          • Edited by WizardOfTheMoon: 8/3/2014 2:25:10 AM
            Yes, chat in PvP and PvE with ALL players is what we need the most. I want to be able to talk to anyone I encounter without having to join a fireteam. Do this for us Bungie and I can live without matchmaking for raids. Killing off random chat will quickly kill off Destiny for alot of your player base. They will just run to Advanced Warfare (same old warfare) when it comes out if you don't fix the social issues. Don't let that happen. Destiny is a very fun game. Communication is very important to the players.

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          • Edited by Mandingo: 8/3/2014 2:28:41 AM
            Why the hell would I do this ? WE ARE IN 2014 ! NOT 80's [b]Invite to Fireteam [/b] lol! are u real ? [u][i][b]Invite to Fireteam Process : [/b][/i][/u] 1. Select [i]loading...[/i] 2. L1 for roster 3. Selecting the player[i].... loading...[/i] 4. Send an invite[i]... loading....... loading......loading.......loading.............LOADING !!!!![/i] 5. [i]*wait 5minutes*[/i] because ... you know, who is the idiot that will check hes messages while in action and take 5-10seconds of LOADING to accept it!!!!! 6. [u]Oh and... you can disable messages and all that stuff on PS4[/u] 7. DOES HE GOT A MICROPHONE? .... oh shit son ... 30% of chances + my blessing and good luck ! Right there, I demonstrate how stupid your logic is. Just like every single Pro no MM, I wont even go to the other points because I would simply crush it. But hey! Have fun with NO MATCHMAKING , NO LOBBY and NO PROXI CHAT Invites those random players in your fireteam and people from bungie.net and good luck! It will be the same thing with a MM. An FPS raid is hard now ? .... tell me more please.

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            • This is way too Long for my attention span.

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              • Yep agree, defiance failed hard because community features were shit, destiny at the minute is worse than defiance was.

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              • I will dance my way to friendships. Who needs the ability to communicate at all when you have the social tools of Kevin Bacon in footloose. I just want PvP and Strike chat, I understand that proximity chat is a technical feat, pvp and strike on the other hand should be as easy as a switch to turn on. Given that I could easily form enough friends to get a raid going... Also to people who "hate on default on chat in multiplayer" remember how amazing black ops 2 implemented this? Press X then press A once and everyone is muted except your party for all time...

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              • again I comment with with... so how many days are left til game launch? how many days are left for you to plaster your gamertag in forums/groups? hmm i've already made several friends here in the last couple of days here. so making friends for this game alone is not hard at all. as alot of destiny players frequent the forums everyday whether they actively post or not is another story. ITS NOT HARD TO MAKE FRIENDS FOR THIS GAME WHATSOEVER IF YOUR NOT -blam!-ING LAZY!

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              • Edited by Krakendoom: 8/2/2014 2:08:14 AM
                I was having this exact discussion woth a group of other gamers. We mostly saw destiny falling into the mmofps category of games before this new was announced, but we have realised that bungie were infact right calling it a sws. As a genre a sws has all of the hallmarks of a mmofps but without any of the communication. SWS shared world silence. I know super unhelpful. I completely agree that bungie has to do something, you should never be forced out of the game. As for typed chat all of the platforms that have destiny are keyboard compatible.

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              • Destiny reminds me more and more of politicians in Washington. Completely out of touch with their constituents like Bungie is completely out of touch with how people play their games. We think trolls will ruin peoples experience if voice chat is enabled so we just wont include it at all. Trading will create to many problems and instead of coming up with ideas on how to make it work we just wont even bother with it. Who needs chat? Im sure players will find other ways to communicate like in forums and console chat Why put the dpad to good use with pre-set call-outs when we can just use the whole thing for useless -blam!-ng emotes. Raids are super hard and need to be done with friends. Here at Bungie it's easy to find 5 other people to raid with so it should be easy for anyone else to, right? And now any time people want to complain about how Desinty lacks the most basic MMO functions they'll just say "bro, it's not an MMO, its a shared world shooter" which apparently makes it ok for all their MMO features not make any -blam!-ing sense.

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              • A well written post with plenty of excellent ideas that Bungie must consider. I also found the lack of social interaction and communication very concerning in beta. Bungie should add in raid match making as well as a communication fix as outlined above. The communication options are essential. I was stuck playing with a IRL classmate sitting next to me on his own PS4 the entire time in beta... thanks to Bungie's terrible communication infrastructure!

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              • Or you know, plug in a keyboard and type with that, if they would allow us some sorta way to type chat ingame. Nothin stoppin ya from putting a keyboard in and using it, dont have to use a controller to "type" messages.

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                • I think I solved the communication through emotes problem

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                • I agree that fire teams on the go features need to be implemented, and more importantly communication methods with randoms like proximity chat and instant chat for fire teams is a priority. In game clan invites would also be a huge help in recruiting as recruiting from he forums is a pain in the a**. With all that said straight match making would be a huge mistake with current limitations. And I sure wouldn't want to try a raid with people I can't communicate with. Lucky we carried our clan from other games over so I have more than 6 people to play with but I can understand people's frustrations.

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                  • I have never seen more brain dead people bend over backwards for less features then justify it.

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                    • Well ive made friends and joined a clan via these very forums in preparation for raiding, i dont see whats stopping the people complaining about no MM from doing the same, People just want things handed to them on a plate. Use some initiative and and find people to raid with yourself, we still have 5 weeks til the game drops for christ sake

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                      • There's a "Feedback" forum for these kinds of things. The main destiny forum seems to keep getting flooded with these kinds of posts...

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                        • What about the people who don't have the means to access the forums regularly to find groups to play with? No smartphone, tablet, or PC you're pretty much done for on the group search front without necessary social featured in-game.

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                          • Got a poll here, trying to get Bungie to take notice. Are you For or Against?

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                            • I agree, for a 'shared world shooter' heavily marketed with the idea of a social environment there is very little in the way social interaction.

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                              • I agree, i'm fine with no Matchmaking IF they make the rest of the social environment better and more user friendly.

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                              • Yeah I can't lie this game is super casual in terms of communication. An always connected shared online experience where the only way to easily communicate is to dance or point. I mean come on give me a break. The fact that this game doesn't have [b]OPTIONAL[/b] proximity chat is a joke to me.

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                                • I agree with everything you have said, even though I completely agree with bungie's decisions I see your point.

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