"Firstly, if Bungie do not support raid matchmaking, players will find a way to do it themselves.[/b] People everywhere are already resorting to swapping gamertags/psn over forums. This isn't 'hardcore clanship', this is matchmaking in its simplest form. People everywhere are resorting to joining clans specifically for the purpose of raiding. Again, this isn't 'hardcore clanship', this is random people joining other random people specifically for the purpose of raiding. This is matchmaking in its simplest form. [b]This isn't people forming guild like bonds in order to conquer with coordination and investment. This is people desperately joining up with whoever they can just so they can raid.[/b] You don't have to take my word for it, this is observable on any social gaming medium where there is an interest in Destiny right now; b.net, reddit, neogaf, and anywhere else you can think of. [b]Secondly, difficulty.[/b] It's all relative. What I deem 'very difficult' is not the same as what you deem 'very difficult'. Your idea of 'very difficult' may be equivalent to my idea of 'not so difficult' - the same holds true for one's sense of 'enjoyment' - if the raid requires 'dedication' in 'cooperation' and 'investment', these are not specifications that are inherent to 'friends'. These are the characteristics of those who choose to adopt said characteristics. It doesn't matter whether i'm in a clan, a random group, or with one of my 'friends'. If I want to communicate and invest my time, I will do so. The same can be said for any player, clan or none, group or none, lots of friends or no friends. [b]So then how is the 'barrier' that defines the raid as 'friends-only', determined by two characteristics that don't apply only to 'friends? It's not logical.[/b] It seems to me that Bungie's actual goal here is for the raid to be as inaccessible, and uncompleted, for as long as possible; to artificially extend the playtime of the game. It's true that this is simple conjecture. It's true that at this point in time it is merely my 'opinion', but it is the only logical explanation. [b]Thirdly, excuses.[/b] There are those who say that making the raid more accessible will encourage 'crying' from 'casuals' who can't handle the 'difficulty'. That raids are 'this' or 'that' and 'not for you'. If I want to attempt a raid I damn well bloody will. Raids are for everybody who has the balls to attempt them. And that's the point here, everybody and their mums are desperately joining up with anybody else, just to raid. It's not going to be 'hardcore groups', whatever that means, being the only ones who attempt it. It's going to be by hundreds, thousands, of those who simply chose to 'matchmake' regardless. As they are already doing. I wouldn't be surpised if the raid gets completed by a group who simply swapped their gamertags/psn on a forum right before the raid, and only met in-game upon entering the raid. At some point, Bungie will have to acknowledge it. At what difficulty somebody perceives the raid, is what will decide if somebody chooses to 'cry' to the forum. It doesn't have to be a 'casual', whatever that means, when most people are showing the commitment necessary to at least attempt the raid. Somebody who has joined a clan, or swapped their gamertag, or is playing with friends, will complain that the raid is too difficult, [b]if they want to[/b]. No amount of 'clan', 'friend', or 'hardcore' status will determine this for them. Somebody who wants to complain over difficulty, will indeed complain over difficulty, whether they're in a clan or not. This means that the more accessible the raid, or any aspect of the game, the more people will complain, because more people will be accessing it. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with 'clans' or 'friends' or 'casuals' or 'hardcore'. Complainers will complain, and more people means more complaints. [b]Fourth, longevity.[/b] Destiny is a franchise, the first of up to [b]four sequels[/b] and [b]four expansions[/b]. In a year's time, Destiny will be outdated by its expansion; after that, the sequel. This 'gear' you think you're entitled to for proclaiming yourself as 'hardcore', won't mean anything for any significant amount of time. You won't 'become legend' no matter how many times Bungie bangs it into your ears. On top of that, a dedicated player is a dedicated player; somebody who invests their time matchmaking and somebody who invests their time with 'friends' are equally invested. Whatever sense of entitlement you have for calling yourself 'hardcore' or playing with 'friends', is completely redundant. Dedication is determined by the player. Investment is determined by the player. Communication is determined by the player. Coordination is determined by the player. Difficulty is perceived by the player. Not 'friends'. Not matchmaking. Not 'clans'. [b][i]"This is not real life. You don't go into a raid, fail and die in real life like you would going for the peak of K2. This is a video game where if you lose you can try again and that's what every raider will do. Fail and fail and fail until they succeed. MM does not change that for anyone whether you choose to use it or not."[/i][/b] - kingofthejuice

Please take this under consideration... I completely understand why people and even devs of Destiny don't want matchmaking for raids; its hard to do without any communication. People don't want MM for this because they don't want randoms in their group. Please take a minute to think about this: If you've got the time to get your friends online, then by ALL means go ahead, dont cockblock those who want the matchmaking.... Let them struggle.... You want to make groups for yourself and your benifits, then DO IT!! Nobody is saying no, matchmaking is the OPTION!! Do you guys know what that means? OPTION? OPTION: the power or right of choosing. <- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/option?s=t which means you can choose between making a team for yourself and going with randoms. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO GO WITH RANDOMS!!! its like saying I dont want to go swimming and you shouldn't either... act of being selfish [i could do this but you can't type of thing] [please don't hate, if you do ill take it as you don't understand wtf im saying] Thank you.

Wish we could get this many people talking about Bungie implementing a group finder. It would be just as effective as matchmaking with none of the drawbacks. And infinitely more flexible because you could find people looking to play any aspect of the game or just use it to meet new people. But nope... Seems people would rather argue for a feature basically guaranteed to deliver a sub par experience.

I'm one of the ones that likes the raids how they are. Look at it this way lets say you and three others want to do a raid. You each have two people on your friends list (other than yourselves) playing Destiny and they're also your same level, invite all those people and you have 12 players right there ready for a raid, no matchmaking. Granted people might not want to raid at that exact given time. This is where the companion app on your phone comes in. Just come to these forums and I'm sure you'll see 100's of threads looking for a raid group. People are already exchanging PSN IDs and GamerTags just like I see you did and others on here doing. This is the Matchmaking for Destiny raids, this is the Social Network of Destiny. PSN ID: VanilaFAce420 Feel free to add me. PS4 players only thank you (sorry PS3 players lol)

Raids require coordination in every aspect. Theyre a thing that has to be scheduled, not something youll find yourself doing on a regular basis. They just aren't built that way. Its practically a requirement to have a team of friends, all communicating with to simply have a chance at beating a raid. Pairing up with random people is a surefire way to fail a raid every time.

So I went down to the local basketball court. As always the "dream team" was dominating. This was a group of the best kids from around town who might as well be the Globetrotters. I stood there waiting with 4 other random people from the neighborhood. They were not my friends but surely we could play against the dream team. We had no shot to win but that would not deter us from trying. Trying would be fun even if we get shut out. My pickup team is up next for slaughter. We go to take the court but......... BUNGIE SAYS WE CANT PLAY BECAUSE MY PICKUP TEAM DOES NOT COMPRISE OF FRIENDS. Bungie--re examine this. Putting in MM hurts no one but maybe your pride. I bet one of the first groups to beat a raid will be randoms. Unfortunately these randoms had to wait 30 minutes dancing on the hut roof to find a team. The raids will take several hours because the first half hour is trying to find a team at 2am. #LetsNetflixThem

I want raid matchmaking. Xbox 360 GT: ThePrimeAdmiral

I'm just going to keep it simple... If Bungie leaves it as "no matchmaking, end of discussion," drop the 6 player requirement. If someone wants to solo it (or a 2-3 person team) by all means let them try (and more than likely fail). No need to scale difficulty or loot tables, just set it to 1-6 players. Problem solved. If it takes more time to get through it with a smaller group so be it... This could be patched in with little effort pre-launch when compared to the rest of the suggestions that may require gui changes, api calls, modelling/textures, etc. "Omg solo raid too op, pls nerf" threads can be ignored or laughed at. It's been mentioned somewhere (I wish I could find that post) that raids should be done by "the best of the best," well let a smaller team prove they fit that category. No unofficial lfr thing is needed, no worries about randoms that don't pull their weight, no worries about when/if voice chat will get fixed (or text chat added), lessened concerns about scheduling conflicts among friends or not having enough friends to do the raid... The list goes on. At least to me, this seem like a fair compromise for the community as a whole. Lastly, no dear OP, i won't be creating my own thread. A post here works just as well as a new thread. And yes, I get how raids work and personally find it less frustrating to coordinate tactics while mid-raid with a smaller group.

Agree completely. Whether you use matchmaking or waste time looking to join a clan, isn't the end result the same? You're teaming up with people you don't know. And why is there so much push back on MM? People like me aren't demanding everyone use it, we just want to be able to access the content we're paying for with the friends we have available. This is basically like me saying "I don't want tomatoes on my sandwich" and Bungie grins and says "tough sh*t, either take it or leave it, but thanks for paying for it either way". The 3 other people I game with are older like myself, 2 with families and one may not even play this on the same console. So, in effect, Bungie is locking out a big chunk of the game we're all paying to play because some of us don't have or want or need 5 friends who can all be on for hours at a time. It doesn't make any sense. I don't care if me and my 3 friends can't beat a single raid. I do care that I'm being locked out from content I'm paying for. This is a really DUMB move from Bungie and I hope it gets reversed ASAP.

Yeah, I still say no. I'm not sure why (feel free to point it out if you think you know), but what is it about people who don't get their way and their arguments for their "cause"? Splitscreen/raid matchmaking/proximity chat people all have the same argument: OMG BUNGIE HOW IS THIS NOT IN THE GAME?!?!?! They rant about how it should be optional and it would improve [b]everyone's[/b] social aspects. Then they realize it's not going to happen and start getting desperate. It's almost as though they start trying to reason and beg other people who post on the same forum (as if we posting on here make decisions effecting the game). Also, I knew bungie already had different difficulty levels. That doesn't change the argument at all for me.

Got a poll here, For or Against?

Ok I'm seeing this a lot. Can you honestly tell me that you can make it through the whole game and not meet 5 ppl to raid with. Come on the raid size is 6 ppl not 20 or 40. Also god forbid you have to do some work in order to gain something that's how the world works. As far as Match making if you did the strike on the beta can you even remember the last ppl who went through it with you? This does nothing to help foster a community just saying.

Easy way to meet in the middle. If you can take the time and wrote something like this, you can take the time and post a similar post. Asking for skillful players looking to accomplish a raid(:

Having raided in EQ1 EQ2 vanguard SOH I think this is terrible idea and will only serve to water down what is a fantastic game. I can only assume that you have never raided in a serious MMO. If you had you'd understand the preplanning, learning and gearing up that goes into a proper raid. I discount WoW as proper raiding as their LFG system turned their raiding into a farce of mediocre PUGs doing mediocre mobs. Raiding should be hard, very hard and should require planning and learning as a group, repeatedly wiping until you learn to get it right and under these conditions your proposal will never work

It needs to be premade but you could invite randoms from the tower. I think no matchmaking for raids is a step in the wrong direction for raids too but join clans, use forum threads, invite people to ur friends list if they played well in a strike. Its kinda easy to grow your friends list as long as you are willing to make new friends and be the person actively inviting. Too many people have a great round or match then never inv each other. Inv people while you level up

A looking for group feature gives you all the functionality of a matchmaking system with none of the short comings. The slightly longer time it would take to setup and organize would save you COUNTLESS hours of wasted attempts. Also a looking for group feature/having the ability to form groups would help solve the social short comings of Destiny.

What i find the most comical here is how everyone who is against match making says how much time has to be invested in planning and prep, and how difficult they will be, yet no one has ever run a single raid.

If people want to matchmake let them. They will anyway by some other means. Also there is no raid that will be completely impossible for a pug, with little to no planning, to beat it.

I don't think this will be changeable. In an official release, Bungie stated "We will not be supporting matchmaking systems for Raids". This sounds like something that was planned and unchangeable, or it would take a long time to create such a support server. Either way, they didn't say they were thinking about it or probably would, they just straight up said no.