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Edited by Uncreative Name:
7/23/2014 8:11:59 PM
99
Shingen-C the new Galahad-C? + Post your suggestions to balance weapons in PvP.
[u]Please read all the post guys. Thank you.[/u]
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[u]The YouTube gameplay is not mine!!!![/u] It was the only gameplay video of the Shingen-C that I was able to find![u] In no way is the foundation of any argument (at least from me) demanding a nerf[/u]. This is a forum post that seeks accurate feedback and opinions, not unjustified demands!
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From what I have experienced so far, the game --specifically the PvP- has been entertaining and quite refreshing. Finally I see myself enjoying a multiplayer FPS game that revives my competitiveness and desire to become better (just as Halo 2-3 did back in the day).
However, I would like to address something that I have noticed, a weapon, [u]the Shingen-C.[/u]
Towards the end of the Alpha, some of you might have noticed that there was a bit of buzz surrounding a weapon, [u]the Galahad-C, an assault rifle that was later on confirmed in one of the Weekly Updates (July 3rd) to be overpowered.[/u] I'm interested to know if the Shingen-C is the same case.
[u]I would like to hear testimonies[/u] of players that have somehow managed to use this weapon or have faced enemies using this weapon.
I haven't had any direct issues with the Shingen-C, it's still quite early in the beta anyway. The most that I have heard about this weapon is the testimonies of my teammates, whom I sometimes play PvP with. Some of them have said [i]this weapon has given them a "boost" in their encounters[/i] (specifically in the Iron Banner event! -[b]Important detail[/b]. [u]That "boost" might not necessarily be present in regular PvP -> That's why there's the need of more testimonies![/u]).
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To be perfectly clear,[u] I'm in no way stating or claiming that the Shingen-C assault rifle needs to be changed.[/u] It would be a completely unsubstantiated conclusion.
[u]That's why I'm interested in your experience[/u] with this weapon (or any weapon, feel free to discuss).
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I'll update this post once I get my hands on with this rifle. Hopefully I'll be able to get it tomorrow and test it out.
I've been playing FPS games for a while now, and I'm good at them, hopefully this experience will help me to effectively analyse whether this assault rifle needs to be changed or not.
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Remember that[u] this is to help out Bungie and therefore the game.[/u] With accurate feedback things can only go better!!
Have a fantastic Beta experience, [b][u]you guys rock!!![/u][/b]
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[u]UPDATE: #1[/u]
Dear people of this forum post,
I would like to extend this forum post to all sort of issues you have encountered during your Crucible experience. Those issues don't have to be specifically related to Auto Rifles (as that might be the initial impression from the title), it can be of anything (preferably primary weapons).
[u]Let's make of this forum post a helpful place were Bungie can hear [b]valuable feedback from[/b] passionate and good willing members of[b] the PvP community.[/b][/u]
I will, after the beta, update this page to share my experience and opinion of the Shingen-C and the Assault Rifles overall (I will focus on Auto Rifles due to the fact that I have a lot of experience with that type of weapon in particular). Although I don't believe the Shingen-C is nearly as powerful as the Galahad-C was, I do believe something has to change (and that change could be related to all Assault Rifles, not one weapon in particular). [u]Don't worry though, I'm not talking about a horrible unjustified nerf, I'm talking about something a bit more sophisticated and not difficult for Bungie to test themselves![/u]
[u]Remember![/u] [b]This forum post is to promote positive feedback! NOT unsubstantiated demands![/b] [u]Feel free to participate in this forum by posting your comments. [b]Please be as objective as you can.[/b][/u]
[b][u]Thank you for everything Bungie! MUCH LOVE FROM THE COMMUNITY![/u] [/b]
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I would like to see it play more like halo for PvP. I know the devs probably want to drift away from that but halo was great because skilled players had the advantage, that's what we want, we want to be rewarded for being a good player. With destiny a person can run around with an assault rifle and kill. In my opinion assault rifles need a damage and range nerf. You shouldn't be able to shoot clean across a map with better accuracy and range than a pulse rifle which is meant for accuracy and range. The pulse rifle damage is perfect, 3 burst head shot kills. I know people that hip fire with the assault rifle at distance and just melt people, that's not right. These are the reasons Halo 3 was a huge success, BR and sniping took skill. Only new players ran around with an assault rifle and it only worked at a certain range. These need fixing devs and the PvP experience will be much better. It will separate the elite from the not so elite.
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4 RepliesThe Shingen-C is fine. It does not need to be changed. People have used it on me and I have done the same. It's a tough gun to beat but it's beatable. It works like an assault rifle should. Close or mid range. I've beaten it plenty of times using a scout rifle. It's fine as it is.
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16 RepliesEdited by Madame Corbeau: 7/27/2014 3:13:27 AMReasons why I think the Shingen/Cydonia is OP. 1.) Extremely accurate 2.)Damn good range considering the weapon type 3.) Out-damages pulse rifles, scout rifles, and hand cannons at range unless it is a very, very large distance. Based on this example alone, I fail to see how some people think the guns are fine. 4.) Will shred you to bits in under 1/2 a second. Seriously, at mid-range, I poke my head out from around a corner then quickly hide again and these weapons drop my health down to a tiny sliver, if not kill me. These weapons aren't so OP that everything just gets rofl stomped by people using them, but it comes close. The people at the top of the leaderboards of every match are pretty much always using an AR.
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From a PvP stand point the auto rifles made all other weapon types obsolete. Mid range targets could be destroyed VERY QUICKLY! Having such a huge mag, coupled with crucibles leveled damage, tight bullet and high rate of fire, it could tear down shields and headshot in an instant. While pulse rifles had lower on all ends and kicked more not only taking longer to kill. Scouts were fine but they only suited well for long range engagements. Auto rifles in general need to be rebalanced compared to pulse and hand cannons. Yes the changes shouldn't all just be made on autos but from numerous crucible and iron banner matches, EVERYONE RAN AUTOS!
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4 RepliesHigh rate of fire, high stability, increased range when aiming, and a large magazine. I loved using my Shingen, but I will admit it seemed too cheap. Holding point A on Venus I took out three guardians coming through the cave without needing to reload. Just crouching and getting head shots. Yeah, it was fun, but it did seem like that rifle was just too good. Also, my bigger concern, was that in trying out other primary weapons, there was almost no incentive to use anything else. All weapons should have a risk/reward factor, and I just didn't see any drawbacks when using the auto rifle. I feel like stability needs to be really low on the autos to make them more fair and realistic.
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Auto Rifles in general were pretty strong during the Beta, and I'm sure that the data from the Beta will show that. I'm not terribly concerned.
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4 RepliesEdited by High Charity: 8/14/2014 4:41:22 PMAll ARs need more recoil and spread. This shows why it needs it. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
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It's not a high level gun and probably won't be a big deal in the full release at all. In my opinion there's no need to bother with changing it.
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I don't think the shingen-c needs a nurf other than range. If the range was shortened (possibly all auto rifles too) then it would make scout rifles and longer range weapons more feasible.
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5 RepliesWho cares if its op. Its a shitty lvl 8 weapon and will be discarded within hrs of use
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I'm my opinion the Cydonia-AR3 was better than the Shingen-C for pvp. And yes, I had and used them both. that's just my opinion, I'm sure there were a lot of people that think this way. So I say keep it the way it is, Shingen-C is NOT OP
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1 ReplyEdited by beanman: 11/30/2018 7:42:04 AM
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While I can't say it was that gun specifically, what I can say is that I could get 3-4 shots off on a target with my Scout Rifle without them firing at me, and then be killed before I get off another 1-2 shots once they looked at me. I found this to be more of an issue in the "level/gear advantages disabled" mode than Iron Banner, but that might be because I didn't do much Iron Banner (did moon and then RL called so only did about 5 Iron Banner games).
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I've got the Singen-C and it's hand cannon and Scout rifle counterparts they are equally good
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Edited by Forest Oak : 8/6/2014 5:23:46 AMKhvostov
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3 RepliesNerf huntards bottom line.
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4 RepliesIt's all about that cydonia - ar3
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The only thing bad about the Shingen-C is the rate of fire made it too strong
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1 ReplyI used a Galahad B as soon as I got it, and was fairly successful. The Sahara is way too inacurate, and I didn't care for the Jigoku in pvp, but once I got the Cydonia... it was OVER! I got my first ever 8.0 k/d ratio. I was running though people with no problems at all. I know there will be new weapons and more balancing in the future, but I really enjoyed the Cydonia!
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I like PvP as it is. A solution could be as easy as making a playlist with set weapons instead of weapons transferred from missions/strikes/etc.
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1 ReplyHunters had no problem sniping me down with hand cannons or snipers in combat using it. As for warlocks they had mixed results depending on situation. Either way the gun isn't overpowered. Most people complaining are hunters who had their killstreak ended by someone using the gun while they themselves used a single shot weapob probably stuck reloading.
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8 RepliesEdited by xShadow125: 7/28/2014 8:41:31 PMLol TL;DR, but I'll reply to title. Most weapons we used are beginner weapons, the Shingen-C, Galahad, Sahara, Cydonia, they will be hopefully pointless when the full game comes out, none of those guns are legendary, they shouldn't be good when it comes to PVP once people start unlocking the best stuff, Bungie needs to find a way to make Legendary weapons the best in PVP, but I think they did, there was this gun called Red Death or something from a screenshot I saw that was meant to kill Guardians and made specifically for PVP. Btw I read the post, and I've owned all of them, the Shingen-C, Cydonia AR3, etc.., and from experience using the weapon, it's balanced, I got outgunned by other weapons a lot of times, specifically the Galahad and Cydonia, and I used the Cydonia myself and found that I like Shingen because it shoots faster and has larger magazine allowing me to take on more enemies without having to worry about reloading, doesn't mean that it kills quicker, just personal preference.
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5 RepliesForget a single auto rifle, in general weapon balance is broken all because of the auto rifle in general, burst rifles have too much recoil and a burst setting is created for the purpose besides ammo conservation to mitigate that issue, scouts are balanced fusion rifles need more damage it takes two shots to kill at mid range and by that time you are dead unless the target is preoccupied, and lastly generally speaking crucible should not allow you to spawn with secondary ammo at all but have it more readily available around the map. These suggestions are based on crucible gameplay, not pvp, however, it would help in pve especially pulse rifle stabliity buff
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Guys I've posted up a forum talkin about Auto Rifles for PvP http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=66653722 AR are way to prevalent in the crucible, I've had several people feel the same way Although I'm not suggesting a NERF of auto rifles, I feel that other prime weapons need a buff to stand a chance against auto rifles As it is they kill target in a split second while a scout rifle takes longer. Let's not even begin to mention handcannons
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Edited by freefall722: 7/25/2014 5:11:06 PMThe auto rifle class most likely just needs a range debuff. If you have a good scout rifle like the jigoku you can be competitive with the singen but only at range. Auto rifles dominate the vast majority of the type of range encounters presented in the maps we have in the beta. But in terms of singen vs. other auto rifles? I think there are three that are fairly competitive with each other right now - cydonia, singen, and sahara - and it depends on the bonuses you can get for them which one feels better. This makes me feel like the class is balanced to itself because there are options. So for me a slight decrease in range across the board for auto rifles, leave scout rifles as they are, and some kind of buff is needed for pulse rifles (I'm going to guess stability because they can outshoot a auto rifle if every shot is perfect). Handcannons are a completely other story. It does slightly concern me though that twice now the community has found and exploited a weapon in less than 4 days.
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Each of the auto rifles have there ups an downs to fit a play style the shingen was more like an smg were as Galahad was like a standard assault rifle. But I mean that's how I saw it.
