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12/18/2013 2:40:44 PM
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Swiss to vote on incomes for all - working or not

[quote]This year alone there have been two nationwide referendums on executive pay, one of which approved strict limits on bonuses and banned golden handshakes. Now two more votes are on the way, the first on the introduction of a minimum wage, and the second, and most controversial, on a guaranteed basic income for all legal residents, whether they work or not. The anger among many Swiss voters at the news that some of their biggest banks, such as UBS, had continued paying top executives huge bonuses while also reporting huge losses, has led to a heated debate about salaries, and more widely, about fairness. Swiss business leaders have reacted with dismay, one calling it a "happy land" proposal, the product of a younger generation that has never experienced a major economic recession or widespread unemployment. Many have also suggested it could provide a major disincentive to working at all, something that could pose problems for Swiss companies already finding it hard to recruit skilled workers. Mr Schmidt denies this, saying the proposed amount for Switzerland, 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,800; £1,750) a month is scarcely enough to survive on, and that anyway a society in which people work only because they have to have money is "no better than slavery". "I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course I am there for my daughter, I look after her." "But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so we can live. "I think with a basic income I would still have to work, but I could… maybe [also] say, 'OK let's spend a week with my daughter.'" So how much exactly would such a scheme cost? No-one is offering precise figures, although there is surprisingly little debate about whether Switzerland could afford it - the consensus seems to be that, financially, the scheme would be doable.[/quote] I think this would be a fantastic step forward for all countries, financially it's 100% possible to do for most countries. It's something I feel the USA and Europe could easily do if they got their act together and stopped allowing major corporations to have massive bonuses while firing people left and right.

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  • Old news

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  • This could significantly boost Swiss spending, especially by the lower decile of the population - they should be more worried about the inflationary consequences of this deal. Select European countries (the Scandinavian model countries, Switzerland) could get away with this - but lead would sooner turn into gold before the US adopted such a scheme - their population is far too big, such a bill would never pass the corporation - sponsored senate, and the US doesn't have that kind of financial muscle to pull it off, certainly not almost $3000 a month anyway.

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    • Edited by KingWhovian: 12/19/2013 2:13:12 AM
      So you're saying that if I lived in Switzerland and I just decided to quit my job and sit home and play WOW for 16 hours a day, I would have literally all my expenses paid for by the government? If that's true, what's the incentive to even work?

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      • Wow, once the oculus rift sex simulator comes out there will be no reason to ever leave the house again!

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      • disincentivises low earning work forces massive increase in taxation/revenue consequently either disincentivises high earning, increases regressive taxation (like sales taxes) making that basic income increasingly less useful, drives the country into big deficits or (most likely) a super fun mix of all three No, I don't think this is a good idea. Nice, but very likely not practical. Redistribution is good, but this isn't a good way to accomplish it. Also, if this is actually a universal basic income, there'd be absolutely massive amounts of churn. Talk about inefficient.

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      • So, welfare for everybody? That is definitely going to deincentivize working hard. The only reason people work hard for money is because they know they need it to live. If you can have this awesome safety net to fall back on, you have no reason to work very hard.

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        • Hue, I remember this joke. It's the one where my tax dollars literally go to pay for someone else not working and I have to go with it or else I'm being, "unfair", "cruel", or "selfish" even though I earned that money from a job that I worked for, went to college for, and paid money for, while still incurring loans that I am now working to pay off with the job that I have. Good joke. Everybody laughs. Curtain falls.

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        • >everybody atlas shrugged bullshit >does everything in their power to make it come true [spoiler]this isnt directed at you OP, its just a general observation that find humorous[/spoiler]

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        • [quote]If you ask me, the entire situation we find ourselves in with the ultimate goal of accumulating personal wealth is beyond absurd and it leaves most people with rather shit lives. [/quote]Quoting this from Delta's subthread because it's the absolute truth. A system like this guarantees that everyone is at least able to put a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs and food on the tables. If you want more than that you can get a job. There is still incentive to work if your desire is to posses material things. Of course, most Americans are far too selfish to ever be able to wrap their heads around the concept of helping their fellow man. They're far too brainwashed by the capitalistic pigs that would have the majority work for pittance so the few can make mega bucks.

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          • Edited by Quantum: 12/19/2013 6:19:04 AM
            Not sure why people are complaining, basic guaranteed income/negative income tax was suggested by right wing economists/libertarians such as Milton Friedman as a replacement for a significant portion of the welfare system. According to said economists it is [i]supposed[/i] to be more efficient than the current system because far fewer background checks are required.

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          • It's like no one has a basic understanding of economics anymore.

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            • I'm all for it; the less time we spend being slaves the better. I mean seriously either we work or we die; is that not the basic definition of slavery? Sure we aren't actually killed by the state but we're kicked out of the house and we can't acquire any of the things we need to survive because that requires money, and the only way to get money is to work for it. But now you can't get a job because you have no fixed home and so the system has taken you so completely up the arse it's burst out of your head, killing you in the process.

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            • I guess in an ideal society everyone would have the capability to have a career that pays the bills well and the younger population could be stuck with the lower wage and simpler jobs (in which these jobs should rapidly decrease as robotic innovation can handle more complicated tasks). There's always plenty of job openings for higher end jobs that require more substantial education. We just have to continue improving that: our education system. More on topic, I would say that this is probably a good step for the country as they're one of the very few countries with a small enough poverty rate to be able to pull this off.

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            • Nah.

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            • I hope this actually works. If it does, it could have the potential to change our society for the better.

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            • Whoever thought of this should get a punch in the throat.

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              • i can't decide whether or not i like this idea. it will alleviate a very large portion of the problems people experience, but it could also lead to other issues. but if it works in Switzerland, why the hell not? the only problem would be trying to implement this in other countries that aren't already welfare states. another problem would be trying to balance America's budget to allow this to happen. we'd have to Audit the Federal Reserve, cut back MAJORLY on military spending, and change our tax rates and procedures. seems doable, but i doubt it will be easy.

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              • Edited by cxkxr: 12/18/2013 10:53:23 PM
                Sweet! Now I can just stay home and play video games for the rest of my life! Such enlightenment. Such progressivism. Such kek

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                • 33,000 a year...for literally doing nothing... what the -blam!-

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                • Similar to the dole some countries use, or is this something else?

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                • Hell yeah! Time for the CIA to support another coup!

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                • If the US didn't have debt (17 trillion and counting last time I checked) this could be an interesting concept.

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                • A month after this passes: "Swiss unemployment at an all time high"

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                  • Only an idiot who doesn't understand economics or sociology would even entertain such an idea.

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                    • If corporations have as much influence on public policy in Switzerland as they have in most western countries, I don't see this bill getting passed any time soon.

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                      • Alaska has something similar. All residents get a check each year because of all the oil drilling

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