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4/8/2013 8:51:30 PM
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Does the messenger matter more than the message?

It's a collection of racist statements from either

29

It depends on who said it

75

Take a moment, look at the 2 gentlemen in the picture. Now, pick one and read the following. Examine your reaction and thoughts on the statement based on it being delivered by one of these two men. Now, what about if it had been said by the other man? Would that alter your impression and reaction to the statement(s)? Do we (as people) care more about WHO says something, than we care about what they say? IMO, it's an interesting exercise. What do you think? [quote]They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living. People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around. The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids. $500 sneakers for what? And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics. I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol? And where is the father? Or who is his father? People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong? People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something? Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from?? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa. I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid. I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands . The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop, already! ! ! With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ......... And all of them are in jail. Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem. We have got to take the neighborhood back. People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now. We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job. Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us. We have to start holding each other to a higher standard. We cannot blame the white people any longer.' [/quote]

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  • Nechrobump

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  • I feel that i have heard the guy opposite of Cosby say that before honestly, god i can't remember his name right now, but it sounds like something he would say and i even read it in his voice.

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  • I can see them both saying this, as they both are relatively driving for the same goal.

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  • Edited by Kody: 4/11/2013 1:47:51 AM
    It would bother me if I heard Bill saying this because he's not black and, throughout the excerpt, the speaker's referring to himself as black. Other than that, no, I'd have taken it the same coming from either of them because I look at the words and message first. Knowing who said it can be important, though, if they're a notable person, because you can have a better understanding of where they're coming from. Perhaps a better example could have been used, as it was obvious this was not Bill writing/saying this.

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    • I agree, having an accent is one thing, but not speaking even partial proper english is ridiculous

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    • I bet if Chris Matthews said this, y'all would commend him for pointing out the truth. It's despicable that y'all hate on o Reilly for being biased and act like msnbc is perfect.

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      • It doesn't matter who said it. And I don't think it's racist. 4/10, interesting, but you neglected a viewpoint in the poll.

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      • very interesting point of view

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      • Edited by challengerX: 4/9/2013 6:56:02 PM
        [quote]With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ......... And all of them are in jail. [/quote] lol I think some black Americans name their kids by dumping Scrabble tiles on the table and just choosing the first legible name. But seriously, what he says is true, except for the name Muhammad. That is a name that black Americans have because they converted to Islam, not wanting the name the people who enslaved them gave them. And the part where he says they're all in jail is just ridiculous generalization.

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        • The truth of a statement is unrelated to the messenger, but how people perceive the message can be affected by who/where it came from.

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        • I think it would be naive to claim that who said a thing doesn't often factor into our judgement of what was said, assuming that we have preconceived notions of the person. But I also think that people are capable of rising above this impulse to make informed decisions regardless of our estimation of the character of the person saying a thing; especially the more aware of this unfortunate tendency you are.

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          • If a white person said it, he would be a racist. If a black person said it, They would be praised for empowering black people to "break the cycle" of poverty, gang activity, and drug use. This is how 90% of society would see it.

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            • Umm...those quoted statements weren't racist at all. Anyone should be able to state these things.

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            • Is that Bill Cosby? Im being serious...

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              • I don't believe that any of these statements are racist, they do not attack any race, they attack a culture, a way of living. It doesn't say that black people are not capable of fitting into American society, it says that people brought up under certain lifestyles are incapable of fitting in to mainstream American culture and, therefore, will not be successful in mainstream American society and careers. It only sounds racist if you are oversensitive and believe that criticism of culture is racist.

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                • It also depends on how it is said. Sarcasm, true intent, etc. Also: A person of X part of society asking for his own destruction is not going to be taken as seriously as someone from the Y part of society.

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                • Edited by Arbiter 739: 4/10/2013 4:35:36 AM
                  Err. This doesn't seem racist, but it is obvious (from how some of it is worded) that the speaker is black. I will say that the last four paragraphs apply much more blame to literally being black than it affects. I also can't imagine Bill O'Riley saying this from what I know of him, but I've never watched that other fellow talk so I can't really say if he would or would not have said that.

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                • The reason why "it's ok if a black person says it" actually makes sense is because in most cases they are coming from a position of experience or at least a feeling of responsibility. If a white person says some -blam!-ed up shit he knows nothing about then yes that is racist because he is viewing the issue from a position of moral high ground. It isn't necessary for white people to make asses of themselves because they think black people are making asses of themselves. If you didn't understand a foreign culture, regardless of what in particular it entailed, would you shoot your mouth about how terrible they were? Wouldn't that make you an idiot? A friend of mine who I used to work with told me that some people prefer to stay in the ghetto because it's an environment they're more comfortable in and more accustomed to. Just like European immigrants who developed their own communities in the early 20th century. Please excuse the digression. It matters if the messenger understands the message and whether he/she can convey truth.

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                  • It's not racist of you take it that it's talking about people like this, not claiming all black Americans are like this

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                  • Racism = discrimination/prejudice + institutional power and privilege Since African Americans do not hold institutional power and privilege over their own race in the same way that white Americans do, it is impossible for them to be racist towards African Americans in the same way that white Americans can be racist.

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                    • [quote] We cannot blame the white people any longer.' [/quote] Truefax

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                    • [quote] We, as black folks have to do a better job.[/quote] It would be odd if Bill O'Reilly said this. I don't think he thinks he's black

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                    • But you can be a doctor with atrocious handwriting. What do those scribbles [i]even mean.[/i]

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                    • Edited by Seggi: 4/9/2013 9:48:07 AM
                      The identity of the person speaking often provides context for what they're saying. If somebody tells me, say, that it's easy to live on minimum wage, I'd be much more likely to trust them if they actually [i]do[/i] live on minimum wage than if they're a politician or political pundit getting paid thousands of dollars every week.

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                    • Edited by Izak609: 4/9/2013 9:21:57 AM
                      At a glance, it sounded like it came from someone who doesn't understand poverty, culture and race. It points out some problems, but seems to view them from off angles based on supposition. It does not give a solution so much as a aimed finger. (Which, upon reflection, might make sense for a frustrated person, rather than a uninformed one.) Everyone speaks a language based off of their cultural background, such as from strangers and friends, as well as family. Just because the exact use of language from one person is different then the other's, does not necessarily make one more correct. One person is simply closer to a more generally accepted English. This general English might be more helpful to land a job, but is clearly not the solution to poverty, neither easily obtained for many. To put simply, we're all trying to communicate with each other, and would do better to primarily seek understanding instead of correction. "African-American" might be unnecessarily long when describing race. But culturally, an African is different than an African-American; just as a German is different than a German-American, which is more accurate than just "American"... as an Indian, to an American-Indian, to a Indian-American are three different cultures... I'm too tired to even fathom constructing a reply for other ideas of that article, this author just needs to learn more about the Ubuntu philosophy, if they aren't personally trying to helping these people (which, I guess, would put this in better light for me). Yes, race exists. We were born from families with different cultures, races and economic backgrounds. We should not be afraid to notice or talk about these things; I think a healthy talk would prevent the development of misperceptions. Race and income might affect someone's cultural experience, but is not their culture. Race and income is not personality. Oh, and I don't think I care about the color of the author's skin. Besides, I'm pretty sure Recon is a cyborg, anyway.

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                    • [quote]We cannot blame the white people any longer.[/quote] Damn, Cosby.

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