Obviously this post hinges on the uneasy idea that Guardian is XP-related progression, there will be some level of progression, "•Create your character, [u]forge[/u] your legend by defeating powerful foes, and earn unique and customizable weapons, gear, and vehicles." (via GameStop Destiny page).
Halo: Reach's progression system, imo, was awful. If Destiny ends up being a title with a XP-related progression system like Reach's ranking system, then Bungie needs to do a lot of proper balancing between enemies.
I'll try to create an example from the info we know, if on Mars there are only Cabal and on Venus there are only Fallen and say for each kill of the Fallen if 15 xp and for each kill of the Cabal is 17 xp, then based off the visuals of the characters alone I would probably want to start farming Fallen for XP because they are (this is an assumption) the weaker enemy between the Fallen and the heavily armored Cabal. Consequently, I would only go to Venus and shun the rest of the game, drastically reducing the meaning+purpose of the game. There are a lot of us gamers who are obsessed with the progression of our character and will find any exploit we can find in the game (i.e. all-grunts + fuelrod cannon in Firefight = easy xp) to get ahead. The weighting of enemies and the xp they grant has to be carefully tuned, and there [u]must[/u] be easy settings for you guys (Bungie) to tweak this game without requiring a title update, tweaks to weapon balancing, xp earned for "Faction Wars" and defeating enemies like Cabal or Fallen, and general settings and features that we, the gamers, may not know yet.
If anything, Bungie, revolutionize the progression system in ways that we (the gamers) couldn't have imagined, and set a precedent.
tl;dr If our guardians level up through earning xp, avoid having enemies that are poorly weighted in terms of what they give for xp. Us gamers see exploits to leveling up our characters in many games, and we often take advantage of them. Destiny should have tools for Bungie to make easy tweaks and updates to the game without actually requiring an official Title Update, and many of the tweaks should be a product of community feedback. Hopefully Bungie will even look to move on from XP-based progression systems and set their own ranking system precedent in the industry.
-
XP should be based on your mission accomplishments, and raids completion, and should be faction based. If you do better you get a higher rank. But there should be the ability to lose your rank and go down, if other people do better. Also equipment should not be xp based, but faction based equipment maybe. I will say this there should be two types of ranking. One is just normal xp rank and another is command rank, the better you do the higher your rank, the worse you do the lower your rank
-
I just starting playing Eve two months ago and I think the progression system in that game is absolutely AMAZING. You have the ability to train skills over time through a training queue (this eliminates grinding and gives the player more time to simply enjoy the game) and you can choose which skills you want to train in order to reach a set goal. I think Destiny should maybe do something like this, but since it isn't an MMO the system would probably not work as well as it does in Eve
-
I don't think that player progression will be EXP based. Notice that on the phone app in the Vidoc, there was no EXP Bar, I think that would be something that would have been easy for them to include if they wanted to.
-
I have a similar concern regarding the "loot" we will be hunting for. In other games it was quite easy to discover the unique locations or enemies that contained/dropped the rarest of items. In Borderlands, I probably reloaded this specific city hundreds of times just because I knew I had a better chance at scoring some bad-blam! weapon. I have also tried out War Z and have consistently found people quick-spawning and camping locations that have the best chance for holding a weapon. This is something I hope Bungie considers as well. Yes, the search for the "next big thing" -either weapon or armor- is fun, but the novelty wears off and it can become a competition between friends rather than a shared experience. I had to stop playing Borderlands with a buddy because he always had the biggest, baddest weapon after weapon farming for 3 hours. He would maul through enemies without me having to help. tl;dr - I hope Bungie also deals with the weapon-farming aspect of games like this. While it is incredible to HAVE that gun, there needs to be realistic methods to attain that weapon that doesn't take away from the social aspect of the game.
-
Edited by ash: 2/24/2013 12:22:05 AMPretty much every MMO now gives bugger all EXP for killing enemies. Quests are where the EXP is at, and they're not repeatable so you can't grind the same one over and over. They could also just have diminishing returns on certain enemies. That works much like how in Halo Reach you could rack up tons of commendations with the Target Locator, but eventually you'd stop getting rewarded when you max out those medals and must find EXP elsewhere in the game.
-
[quote]"•Create your character, forge your legend by defeating powerful foes, and earn unique and customizable weapons, gear, and vehicles."[/quote] Thats basically finding loot, unlocking vehicles, and customizing your stuff. I see your concern, but I honestly doubt that Destiny will be XP-focused. I can't recall any game Bungie has made include a leveling system, but I'm unsure about Myth. You [i]do[/i] have a valid point, though thankfully Bungie has plenty of resources to invest in making sure it works out.
-
From the way I see it, with the art assets we've been shown, there seems to be multiple different levels of enemies in each enemy archetype. So for example, within the Space Zombie enemy. There seems to be a hierarchy of enemy levels. There was a 'space zombie' with no guns, no eyes, and behind him you saw 2 with weapons. In the concept art (with the warlock spewing fire), you see some larger spikey head type zombie guys, that look all kinds of powerful. Then back to the PS4 announcement, we see some sort of huge beast type thing chained up. Now, obviously, defeating one of these guys will give more XP than the other if that's the system this is going for. But you won't get to choose which you fight. It's like a mixed bag. Hell, maybe fighting 5 of the grunt like space zombies is harder than fighting 2 of the ones with weapons. We don't know what type of tactics each class of enemy will have. For instance, the Cabal, they might not be very different aside from the weapons they use. Maybe some use rocket launchers, some machine guns, some snipers. Think the covenant, but divided among each faction of enemy. And perhaps (suggested by some concept art) that these enemy factions will pair up.
-
Interesting. I have to be entirely honest though- I'm seriously having trouble imagining an FPS where you have to farm. I just don't see it at all being feasible or happening. Like, it just doesn't fit in my head.
-
How about just not have XP?
-
I think it's as simple as not tying a set amount of XP to any enemy. XP should be tied to quests (none of that recurring quest bullshit) and you earn XP for successfully completing a dungeon or quest. However, what if I'm on Venus and get ambushed by a group of Fallen? Well although it's not part of a quest, I should get some reward for successfully defending myself right? Well maybe when I kill 100 Fallen I get an XP reward, and after that it's 150 Fallen, and it progressively becomes a larger number, similar to the commendation system in Halo.
-
Edited by Nitron F117: 2/23/2013 4:32:32 PMOne thing they could do, is put deminishing returns on the same action. Say there's something you can do in game, and the first time you do it, you get 100xp, but then the next 100 times you do it, you only get 90, then the next hundred, 81, then 72, 63, 54, etc until you've performed this action enough times that you only get 1 or 2xp. Deminishing returns coupled with increasing requirements for leveling would naturally push players to change their play styles over time. This could also allow for different types of tasks having different xp characteristics. You could have some that start high, but drop quicker than normal when repeated, and some that start low, but have very slow degradation over time.
-
XP should be calculated based on enemy health, enemy damage, enemy RoF/speed, and players level against the enemy's level.
-
[quote]tl;dr If our guardians level up through earning xp, avoid having enemies that are poorly weighted in terms of what they give for xp. Us gamers see exploits to leveling up our characters in many games, and we often take advantage of them. Destiny should have tools for Bungie to make easy tweaks and updates to the game without actually requiring an official Title Update, and many of the tweaks should be a product of community feedback. Hopefully Bungie will even look to move on from XP-based progression systems and set their own ranking system precedent in the industry.[/quote] I read through your entire post. It was just easier to quote your tl;dr. In regards to were you talk about gamers seeing "exploits", I totally agree. As a gamer you can't help but notice a spot or an enemy that gives you a higher reward versus time spent. We are always on the lookout of a way to maximize our efforts. Any efforts to ensure nothing like this exists and keeping the experience "even" across the board would be great.
-
I completely agree with you. Players who take advantage of a poor ranking system usually don't have the skill to use the good things they earn, or use something on better players that is overpowered and takes no skill. A ranking system made from scratch, one that's completely new, would be the best for the world of gamers.
-
i have a feeling that throughout the game's many sub-games (open world, campaign, multiplayer, etc), there will be many ways to grow, leaving players to enjoy the game as they see fit. in terms of competitive multiplayer, however, i do agree and hope that the various methods are proportionate and well-balanced.
-
Well I assume there would be sizable XP rewards for completing missions, enough so that it would be better to go do those on other planets and face more difficult enemies there for not too much more XP a kill but then get the reward too, rather than just farming weaker enemies for no bonus. Just assumptions.