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3/14/2007 5:58:40 AM
232
The 7th Column, The Community, It's Guy, and The Lack There Of
[b]The 7th Column, The Community, It's Guy, and The Lack There Of[/b]
[i]Let me begin by saying what follows is not my rant, but as I agree with most of it I believe it should be posted. If I am wrong for this then I will recieve my just 'reward' but it must be said. I will not reveal the identity of said ranter for his own privacy reasons. Enjoy!
*note: This was written before the announcement of the new Bungie.net*[/i]
Part 1:
You asked for this. Here goes. :3
Let me commence by stating that the problem with the Bungie.net community is deep rooted. I don’t like to blame the web team with any scathing conviction because they have provided the site that, at least formerly, hosted a really good community. However, SketchFactor apparently gave up even before the “upgraded” column was implemented – he was after all the Community Guy whose responsibilities, theoretically, included the interaction with the good persons of the Seventh Column. I was never around too long before the change so I have no grounds on which to argue that he was ever actively involved, but the fact of that matter is that when I and some of my friends submitted our chapters for approval (as was the former custom), he accepted them. The spotlight, too, had been fairly frequently updated.
I understand that there are slightly higher concerns than a thriving community of well-mannered, Bungie-loving individuals – the professional needs for a sleek site with job offers and interaction with Halo 2, for example. It’d be ignorant in the extreme to pretend said necessities do not exist. But how many times have we been told that Bungie.net is not a business site – it’s a community site? The answer, should you wonder, is very often indeed.
I’ll be up front and admit that some of the things done with the site are amazing, not least the full integration of the various modules as one easy-to-navigate conglomeration. I’ve always liked the forums as they, in my opinion at least, look the part, and are so very easy to use. There’s no unnecessary formatting; you just hit reply or new topic, type what you want, and hit submit. Nothing could be simpler. Since I’d never used a forum before that time, it was the perfect way to get started.
Also engaging was the Seventh Column. An invite from a prominent founder via Private Message introduced me to it, and it was excellent: lots of databases and plenty of room for personalisation and creativity, plus scope for organising chapter-wide events. This little communities thrived as one and interacted with one another publicly, also, where great friendships were made and inter-chapter events established. In fact, that was the purpose of the 7th Column Community Page, which died at about the same time as the Spotlight and news.
Priorities seem to be wrong, also. I refuse to believe that a search feature – and repeat threads will surface, especially in the absence of constant new discussion material and in the presence of the ridiculous “don’t dig up old threads” regulation – is more crucial to a community site than the community itself. Surely resources would have been better spent on the 7th Column in one way or another.
And so many empty promises. Nobody expects miracles, but when fanfests, an updated column, more interaction from Bungie and a community that has official support are pledged, it’s saddening when they are not fulfilled, and more so when they simply fade away without even a “no, that’s not going to happen”. I wouldn’t will them all to attend massive fan gatherings, because, let’s face it, no other game developers do, but the fact that it’s happened before and future events were promised makes it that little bit worse. I’d much rather see a fantastic Halo 3 than direct community interaction, as I’m sure we all would, but surely the purpose of a site for the community and Bungie’s having of a community team is to interact with their fans? But Bungie is just the core, the very heart of a system composed of many more organs, blood, bones and flesh.
[Edited on 3/13/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 I'm sure Achronos has many [url=http://www.pregrad.net/thumbs/778b.jpg]tools[/url] at his disposal. [/quote] dude, is that a makeup kit? Are you saying that the Overlord is a cosmetician?[/quote] No, he just keeps in touch with his feminine side. [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 I'm sure Achronos has many [url=http://www.pregrad.net/thumbs/778b.jpg]tools[/url] at his disposal. [/quote] dude, is that a makeup kit? Are you saying that the Overlord is a cosmetician?[/quote] Dude, we're talking about Achronos. [i]Achronos.[/i] Is it really all that surprising?[/quote] Maybe it's like a James Bond makeup kit? You know, makeup that explodes when it come into contact with those that he wishes to be BANT! or something.
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What? Over already? Dangit, and I just came back with popcorn... -- Steve sometimes feels like a bad person for not taking threads like this seriously. *Sometimes*.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 I'm sure Achronos has many [url=http://www.pregrad.net/thumbs/778b.jpg]tools[/url] at his disposal. [/quote] dude, is that a makeup kit? Are you saying that the Overlord is a cosmetician?[/quote] Dude, we're talking about Achronos. [i]Achronos.[/i] Is it really all that surprising? [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 I'm sure Achronos has many [url=http://www.pregrad.net/thumbs/778b.jpg]tools[/url] at his disposal. [/quote] dude, is that a makeup kit? Are you saying that the Overlord is a cosmetician?
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*rawrBalrog* *chomp* I'm sure Achronos has many [url=http://www.pregrad.net/thumbs/778b.jpg]tools[/url] at his disposal. I think this is a great "What not to do on Bungie.net" thread. Maybe some multiple-accounters who enjoy their 'normal' account will think twice? Sketto; I think we've seen plenty of Bungie employee interaction. What do you call this pile of gold I'm excavating at the moment? Back it up, Ash! *beep* *beep* *beep* [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 Vultures. Pure and simple. Ego opportunists... and it makes me ill. For anyone to align themselves with those actions and claim that those tactics were valid and laudable... you have just stepped into a pile of "credibility crap". And the smell never goes away.[/quote] I hate to bring this up but that's how I felt with the people with their twisted "campaign" to get Toast banned. Nothing firsthand everything relying on faulty secondary info. And on topic I don't think that Bungie Employees need to interact with the community just because they've done in the past. Of course It's nice to see that interaction, but I don't think that it's necessary.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BerserkerBarage It's like he can peer into your very soul....that or he can see your IP address.....[/quote] IP addresses are easily changed... this here be a wizard. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!
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You guys (and I mean everyone really, even me but not for the same reasons) seriously need to get a life!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I understand this, but the fact remains that by your own admission, toast was guilty of a few things. [/quote] Yes, but none of which warranted him being fired until possibly around the time he resigned. There is a difference between "doing nothing" and what actually happened. This isn't high school or politics, so I frankly don't care if you think I should have dragged him in front of everybody and had him publically fired. I also don't care if you think his earlier offenses should have got him fired - you are not the judge of that, and frankly, you've done waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. At least he admitted to his faults, you just keep switching accounts and pretend to be an upstanding member. I can respect someone who owns up and faces consequences, you do neither.[/quote] Hey, lets explore your comments for a second. First off, you say that he had done things, and by using the phrase "none of which" suggests that he did [i]multiple[/i] things. Where did I EVER say you shouldve publicly fired him? I never said he shouldve been fired in the first place, I said he did things, for which no serious action was taken until threads began to be posted. You tell me that I can make a new account [i]if[/i] I dont acknowledge any of my past accounts and dont let anyone know about it, then you attack me for doing exactly what you told me to, which is not acknowledge my prior accounts. It seems that you forgot that I was, by not saying, YES I AM LOGICAL THINKING, that I was doing what you had asked me to. Personally, I dont mind if everyone on here knows that I am logical thinking. I was generally well liked and I personally think that I have nothing to hide. The VAST majority of people who know me, know that I am logical thinking, due to my posting in groups. You tell me to admit to my actions, well YES I have been permabanned, yes I took part in "The Revolution" this is all COMMON knowledge for people who are in on things. Personally I dont mind that a bit. Most people realize that my actions were positive in intent and in effect. You call me a spammer, yet many of your moderators spammed my off site forums. What is your excuse to that? Prehaps you should consider the actions of others before you attempt to attack me. [quote] [quote]The subtle undertones of a threat of banning. Very well, you great overlord have the power, do not smite me for my sins. I guess its back to the flood :) LAWL<---my new flood vocabulary...[/quote] No, you're getting banned pretty soon, considering who you are. We've let you slide so far despite being a permanently banned account. But for reference, I wasn't threatening you with banning. I don't have to threaten. That was an attempt to return to the original topic of this thread. No, Logical Thinking, you were marked for banning a while ago... I just haven't done it yet because I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to silence you unfairly.[/quote] So, you have been letting a known permabanned user post at will on your site? It seems that you were fine with my breaking of the rules until I starting pointing out things that you didnt want pointed out.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I understand this, but the fact remains that by your own admission, toast was guilty of a few things. [/quote] Yes, but none of which warranted him being fired until possibly around the time he resigned. There is a difference between "doing nothing" and what actually happened. This isn't high school or politics, so I frankly don't care if you think I should have dragged him in front of everybody and had him publically fired. I also don't care if you think his earlier offenses should have got him fired - you are not the judge of that, and frankly, you've done waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. At least he admitted to his faults, you just keep switching accounts and pretend to be an upstanding member. I can respect someone who owns up and faces consequences, you do neither.[/quote] Hey, lets explore your comments for a second. First off, you say that he had done things, and by using the phrase "none of which" suggests that he did [i]multiple[/i] things. Where did I EVER say you shouldve publicly fired him? I never said he shouldve been fired in the first place, I said he did things, for which no serious action was taken until threads began to be posted. You tell me that I can make a new account [i]if[/i] I dont acknowledge any of my past accounts and dont let anyone know about it, then you attack me for doing exactly what you told me to, which is not acknowledge my prior accounts. It seems that you forgot that I was, by not saying, YES I AM LOGICAL THINKING, that I was doing what you had asked me to. Personally, I dont mind if everyone on here knows that I am logical thinking. I was generally well liked and I personally think that I have nothing to hide. The VAST majority of people who know me, know that I am logical thinking, due to my posting in groups. You tell me to admit to my actions, well YES I have been permabanned, yes I took part in "The Revolution" this is all COMMON knowledge for people who are in on things. Personally I dont mind that a bit. Most people realize that my actions were positive in intent and in effect. You call me a spammer, yet many of your moderators spammed my off site forums. What is your excuse to that? Prehaps you should consider the actions of others before you attempt to attack me. [quote] [quote]The subtle undertones of a threat of banning. Very well, you great overlord have the power, do not smite me for my sins. I guess its back to the flood :) LAWL<---my new flood vocabulary...[/quote] No, you're getting banned pretty soon, considering who you are. We've let you slide so far despite being a permanently banned account. But for reference, I wasn't threatening you with banning. I don't have to threaten. That was an attempt to return to the original topic of this thread. No, Logical Thinking, you were marked for banning a while ago... I just haven't done it yet because I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to silence you unfairly.[/quote] So, you have been letting a known permabanned user post at will on your site? It seems that you were fine with my breaking of the rules until I starting pointing out things that you didnt want pointed out.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] bacon greese1521 Holy -blam!- on a cracker through a hoop of fire on a stick outside of a Lamborghini. I read every single post this thread had to offer, and I for one am a bit ashamed. I mean, since when was the internet all...serious? I mean, this is an internet forum people![/quote] Ay, but ... Nope, you're right. Even If people are Jerks and even [i]if[/i] moderators are chosen solely on connections (I'm not saying they are) it is still just a website. Edit: I agree It was like watching the climax of some awesome movie when Achronos called him out like that. And Just like a movie, the second time I watched it I saw all the evidence that that is who he was. [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No, Logical Thinking, you were marked for banning a while ago... I just haven't done it yet because I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to silence you unfairly.[/quote] See, now it's things like this that scare me. Like I said, spooky. [/quote] It's like he can peer into your very soul....that or he can see your IP address.... I like the first one better. ~B.B.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SS_Zag1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No, Logical Thinking, you were marked for banning a while ago... I just haven't done it yet because I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to silence you unfairly.[/quote] See, now it's things like this that scare me. Like I said, spooky. [/quote] Yeah, I got that feeling too.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos No, Logical Thinking, you were marked for banning a while ago... I just haven't done it yet because I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to silence you unfairly.[/quote] See, now it's things like this that scare me. Like I said, spooky.
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Holy -blam!- on a cracker through a hoop of fire on a stick outside of a Lamborghini. I read every single post this thread had to offer, and I for one am a bit ashamed. I mean, since when was the internet all...serious? I mean, this is an internet forum people!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I understand this, but the fact remains that by your own admission, toast was guilty of a few things. [/quote] Yes, but none of which warranted him being fired until possibly around the time he resigned. There is a difference between "doing nothing" and what actually happened. This isn't high school or politics, so I frankly don't care if you think I should have dragged him in front of everybody and had him publically fired. I also don't care if you think his earlier offenses should have got him fired - you are not the judge of that, and frankly, you've done waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. At least he admitted to his faults, you just keep switching accounts and pretend to be an upstanding member. I can respect someone who owns up and faces consequences, you do neither. [quote]The subtle undertones of a threat of banning. Very well, you great overlord have the power, do not smite me for my sins. I guess its back to the flood :) LAWL<---my new flood vocabulary...[/quote] No, you're getting banned pretty soon, considering who you are. We've let you slide so far despite being a permanently banned account. But for reference, I wasn't threatening you with banning. I don't have to threaten. That was an attempt to return to the original topic of this thread. No, Logical Thinking, you were marked for banning a while ago... I just haven't done it yet because I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying to silence you unfairly.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jeremia luvz BrY [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain K Mart [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I cannot debate this point with you[/quote] Someone help me out here, what exactly is the point of this argument?[/quote] IDK, but I know CpT. K FarT ain't part of it.[/quote] Holy alt.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain K Mart [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I cannot debate this point with you[/quote] Someone help me out here, what exactly is the point of this argument?[/quote] IDK, but I know CpT. K FarT ain't part of it.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain K Mart [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I cannot debate this point with you[/quote] Someone help me out here, what exactly is the point of this argument?[/quote] "fofofofofofofofo" But then i might be completely wrong.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity I cannot debate this point with you[/quote] Someone help me out here, what exactly is the point of this argument?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Doing so would involve a large and complicated backstory going back to before Toast was a moderator (and it didn't even involve him at the time). In the interests of brevity, let's just say that there were (and continue to be) more than a few people who make it their personal mission to get certain moderators removed - truth be damned. Unfortunately for those trying to report Toast's initial minor offenses (not worthy of dismissal, but worthy of notice), those people had already targeted Toast with many falsefied claims (as they had Shishka before him). [/quote] I understand this, but the fact remains that by your own admission, toast was guilty of a few things. [quote] As you might imagine, this made the issue way more complicated than you're making it out to be. Also, nobody but myself and a few others (mostly those inside Bungie... funny that people think we don't pay attention) knew about this problem... so suggesting you know the full story because you have scraps of information filled with half-truths and outright lies is not appropriate. [/quote] I cannot debate this point with you, as I cannot claim to know your thoughts, nor can I ask you to speak on it, as you have no obligation to do so, nor do I think you will. [quote] For the purposes of this discussion, Toast resigned due to a conflict of interest between his group activities and his moderator duties. Nobody here has enough information to talk about it otherwise, and I suggest you stop doing so.[/quote]The subtle undertones of a threat of banning. Very well, you great overlord have the power, do not smite me for my sins. I guess its back to the flood :) LAWL<---my new flood vocabulary... [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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Ergh...I really really really want to point out the fallacious things that this guy is doing, but what's the point, Achronos will just get to it here in a second, and no one will care what I said :( I guess I'll let Tom answer, he certainly doesn't need me to fight his battles for him. ~B.B.
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[quote] [quote]Please, stop trying to attack my character, which seems to have been the goal of you mentioning the word "ego" like a trained parrot. If I really wanted to inflate myself I would, but I am not trying to do that, so dont question it. Stick to the points, I didnt attack you, so dont attack me. [/quote] Yes, you did. Specifically, you suggested that both myself and the other moderators are either liars or incompetent, both of which are serious personal attacks. And especially coming from someone without much in the way of real facts and just armed with half-truths and some bald-faces lies... well, let's just say that you started it.[/quote] No i didnt. I said that you were, [i][b]IF[/b][/i] you were aware of the situation as early as recon suggested, you were. The fact is he said that you were aware of the problems over a YEAR ago. If that is the case and you sat idly by for over a year, something [i]is[/i] wrong with your actions. [quote] [quote] [b]On the selection of moderators[/b] It is clear, that contrary to the statements made by others, the selection of moderators [i]IS[/i] based on their [i]PERSONAL[/i] standings with the other moderators. It is really similar to the andrew jackson "spoils of war" system where moderators put in a good word for their friends, even if they arent the best person for the job. If you check the past history of chosen moderators, you will see that they play with the moderator "click" and are in the same groups as other moderators. Now, there are a few exceptions to this, I wont deny that, but the general trend is friends of moderators become moderators before anyone else. That is simply how it works. [/quote] As the other moderators are only allowed to nominate other mods, not actually pick them (that's my job), you are only demonstrating your lack of knowledge again. All you have simply said is that the moderators nominate people they know. Would you rather them nominate people they don't know? I'm sorry, but that's such a stupid complaint. And it doesn't matter because I'm the one making the final call anyway.[/quote]This shows your UTTER lack of knowledge. If you ask someone, well what do you think of _____ and they brutally critique them, or praise them, it will obviously effect your decision. Also, considering their ability to nominate others, wouldnt it make sense that they would nominate friends? The fact is that the input you get from them could easily effect your decisions. [quote] [quote]EDIT: As for your terrorist comments, you should really learn what is going on before you post. If I wanted to cause problems I wouldve done it last night, or earlier in the week. I am not going to go into specifics, but I got some things sent to me that I couldve really been an ass with. Ask achronos on that one, I actually PMed him with the information to give him a heads up so he would be able to better deal with the issue. Like I said, i wont post the direct information, if you dont know about it, you can PM him on the issue.[/quote] And as I told you, such information is common knowledge (google me). I've been using the Internet since before Mosaic existed; nothing about me is on the Internet that would surprise me. I'm not some fool who thinks he's anonymous on the Internet. [/quote] Then you should know the ease of recovering accounts using that information. [quote] Besides, you know damn well that he was using the word "terrorist" to describe the type of things people were doing to get Toast removed. If a bunch of the reasons given weren't lies and half-truths, then they'd be called activists. Don't assume you know more about the history of things here than I do. The thing with Toast has a far earlier history than you think and didn't even start with him - it started with Shishka. [/quote] Well then once again, back up what you say and inform us and tell us what was actually false [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos Actually, he's using humor because he's letting slide the fact that you've pretty much admitted to being on an alt, which is a bannable offense. So, I suggest you stop mocking people who are giving you the benefit of the doubt here even though it is somewhat obvious that you are being a huge hypocrite by simply having this account. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Deaths Divinity Yes TGP, the good old, no point, so I will attempt humor. If I wasnt involved in conversations, why was I able to so easily list some of the topics found in some of the threads in HFCS?[/quote][/quote] I would like you to go read my appoligy to him on the last page. [Edited on 3/15/2007]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Achronos The thing with Toast has a far earlier history than you think and didn't even start with him - it started with Shishka. [/quote] As does most trouble. *nods sagely*
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That's it. That's it. I give up. This guy won't listen. I give up.
