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#Septagon

1/2/2013 5:10:47 AM
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A huge problem with this community

Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died. Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website. Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=26466683]do this[/url]. It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten [url=http://www.bungie.net/Help/content_viewer.aspx?link=conduct]that being a jerk is a bad thing.[/url] Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76620787]Just look through a few[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76616824]pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.[/url] Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone. This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links? The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts? I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people. I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask. You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.

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  • We should just make Harlow a moderator. He seems to be good at patrolling the scary part of town.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine Yeah, but what i'm saying is I report you lets say because you said something that is offensive to me but doesn't break the rules and they see that then I get banned not you.[/quote] Yes, which is why the community should use common sense when reporting a post. A user might find a perfectly appropriate post to be racist, and report it. Of course, if that post isn't breaking any of the addressed forum rules purposely then it will not be removed. It's all up to the member reporting the post to use common sense.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Halo biggest fan I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.[/quote] It depends what you think is "offensive" because I seem to remember Recon saying if it doesn't break the rules and you report it you can get banned. Which is why I don't report anything just to be safe.[/quote] Each situation is different and the mods use common sense when issuing bans. If someone is reported for having a different opinion but doesn't break the rules, they won't get banned. [/quote] Yeah, but what i'm saying is I report you lets say because you said something that is offensive to me but doesn't break the rules and they see that then I get banned not you.[/quote] Technically the rules say "don't be a jerk" so if I said something offensive I would be breaking the rules. The only way i see around it is if I said something that was not meant to be offensive but was taken the wrong way or the person who posted it did not mean it in the sense of how it was presented. This happens a lot and it is no big deal. People like to joke, kid around, but sometimes it can go too far. But I think if you get offended by something, it is best to ignore it and report it. If it continues to happen, report it to a ninja. The problem is if people learn they can get away with saying stuff, they will keep doing it. [Edited on 01.02.2013 10:12 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck Instead they wait til everyone's annoyed with a member and kick them. I've seen it happen with my own eyes! [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkBen64 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck TFS fgts[/quote][/quote]TFS don't ban people for no reason :D[/quote][/quote] This thread has had more than enough private group drama for today... ...however, you also know way too much, and will now die as a result. I am sorry for your loss.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Halo biggest fan I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.[/quote] It depends what you think is "offensive" because I seem to remember Recon saying if it doesn't break the rules and you report it you can get banned. Which is why I don't report anything just to be safe.[/quote] Each situation is different and the mods use common sense when issuing bans. If someone is reported for having a different opinion but doesn't break the rules, they won't get banned. [/quote] Yeah, but what i'm saying is I report you lets say because you said something that is offensive to me but doesn't break the rules and they see that then I get banned not you.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck Instead they wait til everyone's annoyed with a member and kick them. I've seen it happen with my own eyes! [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkBen64 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck TFS fgts[/quote][/quote]TFS don't ban people for no reason :D[/quote][/quote]That's more or less acceptable.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Halo biggest fan I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.[/quote] It depends what you think is "offensive" because I seem to remember Recon saying if it doesn't break the rules and you report it you can get banned. Which is why I don't report anything just to be safe.[/quote] Each situation is different and the mods use common sense when issuing bans. If someone is reported for having a different opinion but doesn't break the rules, they won't get banned.

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  • Instead they wait til everyone's annoyed with a member and kick them. I've seen it happen with my own eyes! [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkBen64 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck TFS fgts[/quote][/quote]TFS don't ban people for no reason :D[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Halo biggest fan I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.[/quote] It depends what you think is "offensive" because I seem to remember Recon saying if it doesn't break the rules and you report it you can get banned. Which is why I don't report anything just to be safe.

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  • ITT: People taking the internet too seriously.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Halo biggest fan I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.[/quote] The only problem is they often go unreported as people would rather have "street justice". If you make the problem "A huge problem with this community" or act like it is, it can make it much worse. Sure there is flaming and trolling but it is not as bad as OP says it is. The threads he posted as evidence shows a contradiction in that we are improving. The strict policies have been abolished and the forums are not like what they were. I think a lot of this thread is assumptions and stereotypes from people who rarely use the flood and other cliches.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck TFS fgts[/quote][/quote]TFS don't ban people for no reason :D

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Thundastruck TFS fgts[/quote]

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  • I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.

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  • TFS fgts

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] St Major Dan [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] St Major Dan I believe the OP's argument is poor. You provide us with a 4 year old post calling out the Flood forum and then you present two threads where people will obviously have a difference in opinion. And with that you justify that the entirety of the Flood is an awful place and it has a toxic effect? Furthermore you admit that you yourself can be a jerk sometimes, but then you defend yourself as purely joking. But if another member does it, even with the same mindset- they are the intolerable jerks? I think your claims are highly over exaggerated and are influenced by your previous experiences there. That or this is some bogus self promotion of your group of whatever.[/quote] No it is genius. Harlow has shown with this thread and the OP all the wrong things with this forum by making a well crafted and subtle post that is meant to do all of the things he is advocating against. It does everything he mentioned in the OP but the only difference is it is not blatant enough. [/quote] I have no idea what you're getting at.[/quote] Good it's working In all seriousness though I don't think Bungie.net has as huge of the problem as OP has tried to instill into us and that in reality it is quite minuscule. If you don't let a situation escalate it will not be a big deal. If you assume too much and make broad generalizations about people or groups it tends to not end well. [Edited on 01.02.2013 9:59 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] St Major Dan I believe the OP's argument is poor. You provide us with a 4 year old post calling out the Flood forum and then you present two threads where people will obviously have a difference in opinion. And with that you justify that the entirety of the Flood is an awful place and it has a toxic effect? Furthermore you admit that you yourself can be a jerk sometimes, but then you defend yourself as purely joking. But if another member does it, even with the same mindset- they are the intolerable jerks? I think your claims are highly over exaggerated and are influenced by your previous experiences there. That or this is some bogus self promotion of your group of whatever.[/quote] No it is genius. Harlow has shown with this thread and the OP all the wrong things with this forum by making a well crafted and subtle post that is meant to do all of the things he is advocating against. It does everything he mentioned in the OP but the only difference is it is not blatant enough. [/quote] I have no idea what you're getting at.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] St Major Dan I believe the OP's argument is poor. You provide us with a 4 year old post calling out the Flood forum and then you present two threads where people will obviously have a difference in opinion. And with that you justify that the entirety of the Flood is an awful place and it has a toxic effect? Furthermore you admit that you yourself can be a jerk sometimes, but then you defend yourself as purely joking. But if another member does it, even with the same mindset- they are the intolerable jerks? I think your claims are highly over exaggerated and are influenced by your previous experiences there. That or this is some bogus self promotion of your group of whatever.[/quote] No it is genius. Harlow has shown with this thread and the OP all the wrong things with this forum by making a well crafted and subtle post that is meant to do all of the things he is advocating against. It does everything he mentioned in the OP but the only difference is it is not blatant enough. [/quote] I must be really obtuse, because I don't see any of what you're talking about in this thread. Edit- oh my it seems I've been had [Edited on 01.02.2013 9:59 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] St Major Dan I believe the OP's argument is poor. You provide us with a 4 year old post calling out the Flood forum and then you present two threads where people will obviously have a difference in opinion. And with that you justify that the entirety of the Flood is an awful place and it has a toxic effect? Furthermore you admit that you yourself can be a jerk sometimes, but then you defend yourself as purely joking. But if another member does it, even with the same mindset- they are the intolerable jerks? I think your claims are highly over exaggerated and are influenced by your previous experiences there. That or this is some bogus self promotion of your group of whatever.[/quote] No it is genius. Harlow has shown with this thread and the OP all the wrong things with this forum by making a well crafted and subtle post that is meant to do all of the things he is advocating against. It does everything he mentioned in the OP but the only difference is it is not blatant enough. [Edited on 01.02.2013 9:47 AM PST]

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  • It is a problem that needs to be fixed now, I have left this site 3 times for months at a time because of what a trash pit it is based on peoples comments. "Play Nice" said by Achronos yet its hardly enforced.

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  • I believe the OP's argument is poor. You provide us with a 4 year old post calling out the Flood forum and then you present two threads where people will obviously have a difference in opinion. And with that you justify that the entirety of the Flood is an awful place and it has a toxic effect? Furthermore you admit that you yourself can be a jerk sometimes, but then you defend yourself as purely joking. But if another member does it, even with the same mindset- they are the intolerable jerks? I think your claims are highly over exaggerated and are influenced by your previous experiences there. That or this is some bogus self promotion of your group of whatever.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jesse Pinkman [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 The Bungie community (stand by, major old-timer memory coming on) was originally a VERY rowdy place. People were more than willing to barb, slight, and poke at each other. It came with the territory. No one took it personally, it was akin to dorm-room pranks and brothers punching each other on the arm. Anyone who came into that community who was easily offended or hurt, well they either learned to keep up, or they left crying. [/quote] IMHO, the flood is still like this. Its the fact that no one takes anything seriously that makes it appear unwelcoming, but its really the opposite is a sense.[/quote] Different forums need to be looked at differently. The community forum is a forum that traditionally has been looked at as a more "mature" forum in it's appearance while the Flood is often seen as the rowdy forum. The freedom the Flood forum provides allows rowdier users to congregate there and stay off of this forum to troll or be belligerent.

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  • Yes they are. This community always reaches a new low, just when i can't be more disappointed. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] doctor woot Why is OP hidden? Are you people really that immature?[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 The Bungie community (stand by, major old-timer memory coming on) was originally a VERY rowdy place. People were more than willing to barb, slight, and poke at each other. It came with the territory. No one took it personally, it was akin to dorm-room pranks and brothers punching each other on the arm. Anyone who came into that community who was easily offended or hurt, well they either learned to keep up, or they left crying. [/quote] IMHO, the flood is still like this. Its the fact that no one takes anything seriously that makes it appear unwelcoming, but its really the opposite is a sense.

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  • I don't really see a way to fix that, OP. Unless Bungie finds some way to IP ban trolls, they will always exist and will always cause arguments, even if they can be avoided. I think the best thing to do would be to just be nice and ignore anything that could start arguments.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] doctor woot [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BlackHeaven [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] doctor woot Why is OP hidden? Are you people really that immature?[/quote] That's the ultimate proof of Harlow's point. [/quote]He's being critical! Get him![/quote] He's advocating hostility! Ignore him!

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