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#Halo
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Eshcka

Eshcka

12/11/2012 12:34:57 PM
Over the years, Halo has evolved. With each passing title, new things have been introduced into the sires. Sandbox and mechanics aside, the addition of a ranking system in Halo 2, unlock-able armor and achievements in Halo 3, commendations in Reach, and unlock-able weapons, weapon skins, loadouts, and a huge amount of un-lockable's through the completion of commendations. Unlocking new things is a lot of fun, and it rewards players that play the game on a regular basis. Some item require a higher level of skill to unlock, so the more skilled players can distinguish themselves above those of lesser skill. It's great to be able to unlock things that distinguish yourself as a skilled, or experienced player based on your play-style. Or if you simply like a specific appearance. But when the things you unlock change the way the game plays (specializations), a whole new breed of player is borne. When there are game-altering (anything that changes the way the game is played in any way, shape, or form, is game-altering) tools and or weapons that require you to unlock in order to use on the battlefield, people will naturally focus their attention on unlocking them to gain an advantage any way they can. Understandable. But at that point, why are you playing the game? To have fun? Or to unlock the next tool? I agree it's both fun and rewarding to have the advantage, but when you encounter someone with better tools because he unlocked them first, you are at the disadvantage. Now, if you can find a way to defeat that player, kudos to you. But I'm pretty sure you would be slightly irritated if you loose because the other player had an advantage you had no control over. So you will keep playing to get every advantage you can so this won't happen. But at the end of the day, if you didn't have things to unlock, would you still play? If you were on a level playing field with every player out there, and the only thing that makes you different, is your name, and how you perform on the field, would you still play Halo? I know many players wouldn't, because after all, if you can't unlock any more cool stuff, why play? I guess the real question is, do you enjoy the game enough to play it just because it's fun? So many players these days only play to unlock the next rank, or the next cool looking piece of armor, or the next tool to give them an advantage so they can unlock stuff faster. And when they have it all, they enjoy it for a while, but it becomes old because they aren't getting anything new, and defeating the average player becomes a simple repetitive task aided by the things that were unlocked. If the game is going in a specific direction, you can simply select the tool that gives you an advantage in that area. Now, ask yourself, what did people play the older Halos for if there weren't things to unlock? Well that's simple, people played for fun. You didn't have all the raging people that had to get so many kills to get the next piece of armor, or weapon skin, or what ever. You simply had players that enjoyed playing the game. And because the only people that played the game, were playing for enjoyment, all kinds of great things came of it. People always ask me why I liked Halo: CE and Halo 2 so much. It wasn't because of the sandbox, it wasn't because of the maps (entirely, I loved Halo 2's maps!), it was because of the community. People played together because it was fun. And I really miss those times. Over the last 11 years, the reason we play Halo has changed a lot. Improvements have been made to the game, but the fan-base has been fractured. Just taking a quick peek at the forums will tell you that. Thousands of people arguing over armor, maps, weapons, bloom, AAs, everything. For competition, balance is needed, and of course, everyone has their opinion of what balance should be. But in the end, how many people don't care about winning? Or unlocking armor? Or achievements? Very few. Unfortunately, I have become one of those players who play just to unlock cool stuff, and that is the only reason I keep coming back. The truth is, I don't enjoy simply playing the game... Do you? I think because of this very thing, the reason we play games hasn't been getting better. Sure, the graphics of the games are more detailed. They may play more smoothly. They may have more and more toys, but the games wouldn't mean one thing without the players. And the reason for playing the games has turned from recreation. I personally don't care what game I play, I just enjoy playing with friends, and that is the whole reason I liked Halo so much, because people played for fun, because there wasn't anything to unlock. But as people keep getting consumed in unlocking new things, and all of the goals in the game, they don't want to play custom games because they don't get enough XP, even if they like playing custom games better. The games haven't changed nearly as much as the community, but the games can change the community, and they have.

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    martian712

    martian712

    12/14/2012 8:00:02 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Rabid Grunt 3 Also, statements such as "majority of fans i've noticed don't like the way halo is heading so they are getting out". It's a thing called the vocal minority, good sir. Whenever there is a poll, even in the Reach hating Flood, Halo 4 always gets a good reception. It is just those who take the time to constantly write abuse about it, compared to those who dont, who make it seem unliked. EVERY single old time Halo fan I know loves Halo 4. No one says "omg CE/2/3 was so much better", because we all have those games. I think the only way to stop this divide is for both sides just to realize that the only change is that more Halo games are coming out, and they will inevitably be different. Cant we all just enjoy Halo as a series, rather than priding ourselves on our "favorite Halo game"?[/quote] This is what I'm talking about. There is an issue with some people that I don't understand. There isn't a loss of Bungie touch on the game. I love you more than anything Bungie, but you tainted Reach with your touch. Moved it further from Halo. But I didn't hate them for it, I played the -blam!- out of the game still, and had fun even though it lacked a Halo feel, and I never quite adjusted. But it was a new Halo, and it was still fun, and still the pace and type of shooter I enjoyed. Despite the melee killing issues, bloom debates, shield/health issues, and several more gameplay things that got constant adjustments. When you look at Reach, Halo 4 actually managed to move closer to a Halo 3 feel, not further away. Just playing it, I can feel that. But I'm not going to try to split the community over this. I want people to experience and play and be open to what Halo is. Because it's what united us, and we shouldn't be resistant to it changing. My friends have always been Halo Above All gamers when it comes to our shooters. And all of them pretty much agree that Halo 4 is good and feels very Halo despite it's changes and innovations. I'm consistently amazed at how well balanced it is to preserve that feel to the game even with these new developments. To me, it was a very perfected and refined gameplay innovation, and I wish the community would look past all of the stark changes and give the game a good, honest, open chance. Sure, we might look back and remember all of those memorable moments we had in the previous Halo installments, but I've realized a lot of that has to do with our position in life at that time, and how we formed a relationship with our games, and the online community. Halo 4 still feels to be missing a bit to me, but that's not because of the game. People don't talk on the Mic anymore. Xbox Live parties, while wonderful wonderful things, and Call of Duty (causing many people to ditch the mics because of others' behavior) have changed the presence of people talking. As a result, there are less people making friends with you and inviting you back into some cool custom game mode they've discovered and having tons of fun. As a community, if we stopped being jaded and divided about it, we could revive all of this. I for one have changed to being on the mic during all matches, even if others aren't. Hopefully I run into some other people doing the same thing.
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    martian712

    martian712

    12/14/2012 7:43:03 AM Permalink
    Sir, I honestly thought the same exact things when Halo 4 was coming to light throughout the year. I honestly believed they were absolutely throwing this game down the toilet. Right down the -blam!-er. But have you played the game? Playing it entirely tossed my ideas about it out the window. Unlocks are near negligible, and I realize I must expand upon this quite deeply now. So here it goes: When it comes to the weapons, I cannot stress this enough, the weapon unlocks are the furthest thing from Call of Duty, you don't need to worry. You unlock them all within the first few levels, with exception to the suppressor and light rifle. But you get just about all the weapons in an hour or less of play, even as a less than average player. If you still find yourself blaming the disadvantage and gap after the first hour, you'll still be feeling the same way in a few days when you're entirely caught up. Because it can't possibly be the difference that's keeping you down at that point. I'm not just being an ass who's saying you should be superior enough to overcome it, but I'm really saying that objectively it must be the case. The gap is so infinitesimally small, I can use limits to prove that it actually equals zero. The loadouts themselves are so damn well balanced now, you only get further options by unlocking more, not stronger weapons. You don't see anybody dropping the assualt rifle just because it's a starting weapon and you've unlocked better stuff. You don't unlock better stuff, you just unlock more options. The specializations also seemed to be a different story. When I learned about the perks, I felt the game get even sketchier. I had accepted the weapons, but these late game perks seemed way too unbalanced. But they don't feel like it. They can be subtle and I can adapt really easily, most of the times without a death involved in discovering their perk. It's easy to identify who is possessing what perk, whether it be the stealth upgrade that reduces your visibility on radar, or the mounted turret upgrade that prevents it from overheating and allows people to -blam!- run quick with it. Frankly, if you can't adjust to that immediately, you were probably dead already because it suggests you ran at some guy with a machine gun turret in the first place without thinking; the perk isn't much of a factor at that point lol. Even Promethian vision is really well balanced. You can see that someone is spotting you with it on the radar and their eyes glow red as hell (It's a sweet visual effect to see) and they emit a weird growl. So if you're being sneaky you're immediately aware you've been spotted, and so you adapt. "Because that's what Spartans do. We adapt or we die." ~John 117. The unlock driven multiplayer isn't a factor anymore than it was in Reach, or even Halo 3, or even Halo 2. Hell, there hasn't been a game that didn't have some kind of ranking system in years. It just shows how much you've played. Tells you that that guy knows his -blam!-. The unlocks are not so game determining as in CoD. I never found myself going "Damn I really need to rank up to unlock that ____. Everyone is killing me with that, and I need it just to survive out there." Where in CoD your beginning unlocks suck, and you're only on par equipment wise with guys that just prestiged, and you're still down on the experience. Believe me, 3 out of 5 of my loadouts still use the Assault Rifle or the DMR, and one of the two first AAs I unlocked. All things that were given to me or I got in just a match or two of play. And even though I got the game over a week late, I didn't feel overly disadvantaged even though people had access to most of the games weapons and I still only had the DMR and Assault Rifle. But does the unlocks drive players? Does it quit playing for fun? I don't think so, I think plenty of people that are so driven by the unlocks, that they never just played for fun in the first place. They probably weren't that driven to play games before because there was no rewards, the rewards didn't change them. Furthermore, is it you who has stopped playing for fun? I gave the game a chance so I could have fun playing online, giving it my shot to kick the asses of others, and have tons of fun just playing with my friends. But you're refusing to play because you're afraid of feeling disenfranchised by a perceived gap that you think could cause you to lose sometimes. That doesn't sound like someone motivated by fun. And the story, that was the reason I bought the game. A lot of people on here challenged it. But it feels so much more Halo than Reach did. Also, it didn't dismantle established canon in the sake of a small and under-explained character exposition change that has no effect on the rest of the lore. Remember the game was directed with Frank O'Connor as the project lead. Just like he was on Halo 2 and 3. Halo is just as much his baby as everyone at Bungie too, and there are plenty of Bungie people there influencing the game, and working hard to establish external lore that still meshes with and enhances the game's canon. They're treating it quite well I believe. I entered that campaign with my skeptical face on, but I couldn't keep it up. I felt myself being swept away into a classic feeling Halo story in the same way that all of us long standing Seventh Column family members did oh-so-long ago. It's the same immersion into a story that we all got that dove us into this universe, the same feelings that lead each of us to be on this forum right now, our love of that game. It's a new direction, but one that is very well deserved. It doesn't abandon the Halo universe, but simply opens more doors within it, and I find myself excited for future development into the universe. Even in the form of the surprisingly well developed story that is happening in Spartan Ops, that is exciting. My real point here guys, is give it a chance and let yourself be immersed. With the changes in the combat system, it feels like Halo 3 again. I know we loved the health of Halo 1, but the way the shield health and physical health interacted in Reach just felt off, and even though I liked it, I didn't get that Halo feeling from playing it. Halo 4 brings that back full force, and the loadouts don't bother the gameplay that much. When you see those ordinance drops fall in at the start of the match, you're reminded that you're playing Halo, you're calling out to your teammates for what power weapon you're heading for, and where you see the enemies going. It becomes about that territory control again, and not a face-paced spaztic reaction, unlock the best weapons, skilless shoot-um-up. I entered that game really skeptical, prepared to be fully disappointed. But I was wonderfully surprised at how Halo the game felt. Don't let it divide us you guys. You're all like my family <3
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    Kenger Benger

    Kenger Benger

    12/14/2012 4:58:47 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CapttainNEM0 Each specialization, when completed, unlocks a perk you can use that gives you an advantage. Wetwork: Reduces "flinch" when taking fire, and increases accuracy when firing rapidly. Operator: Increases vehicle health (the amount of damage a vehicle can take), and reduces the amount of time a vehicle is effected by an EMP. Pathfinder: Decreases the speed at which turrets overheat, and increases your walking speed when carrying a turret. Pioneer: Increases the amount of XP earned at the end of a game (I think). Tracker: I'm not exactly sure what tracker does, but from what I've heard, it allows you to see an enemy you have dealt considerable damage to after that player has gone out of sight (like if you weren't quite able to kill him before he ran away). I think it works like Promethean vision. There is one that makes you hard to see in PV. There are a few more, I just can't remember them all at the moment. :/ [/quote] Wetwork actually dampens your footsteps, makes your assassinations faster, and only shows your outline in Prom. Vision. Tracker lets you get a new set of ordinance drops if you don't like the one you get.
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    x12796

    x12796

    12/13/2012 5:52:10 PM Permalink
    I agree with your post. I have fun playing Halo 4, but it is missing something intangible, the Bungie secret sauce if you will - that an the fact that 343 made the Spartans armor look more like covenant soldiers than Spartans. There are hardly any people on mic in Halo 4 - even in the objective game modes. I played a game of Dominion last night and it sucked until everyone mic'd up and then we had a great time even while losing. The topic of changing a game with a cult following is a challenging one for a studio whether it's Bungie or 343i since they wish to evolve the game with the times in order to remain relevant - and then there's the pressure from parent companies to attract new gamers to the franchise which usually results in changes that alienate core fans. I definitely don't envy devs having to walk that tightrope.
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    Rabid Grunt 3

    Rabid Grunt 3

    12/12/2012 10:06:48 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ryan299 its halo vs cod of halo. majority of fans i've noticed don't like the way halo is heading so they are getting out. i for one hate new halo. reach started the split and halo 4 set it in stone. the developers killed halo. in their haste to compete with cod they innovated the wrong way. they moved towards them when halo has always been the opposite, which is why people loved it. by doing this bungie, to a certain extent, then 343 killed the community. series will only recover if they go back to what halo is. the low online population of halo 4 proves that this series is dying.[/quote] This right here is one of the primary reasons for this "divide". Individuals who somehow assume they know what is "best", and "right" for the Halo series. I mean sure, dislike Halo 4 all you want, but saying it "killed Halo"? Pure, undeniable bull. Hell, if it was not for 343, Surely Halo would be dead already? Also, statements such as "majority of fans i've noticed don't like the way halo is heading so they are getting out". It's a thing called the vocal minority, good sir. Whenever there is a poll, even in the Reach hating Flood, Halo 4 always gets a good reception. It is just those who take the time to constantly write abuse about it, compared to those who dont, who make it seem unliked. EVERY single old time Halo fan I know loves Halo 4. No one says "omg CE/2/3 was so much better", because we all have those games. I think the only way to stop this divide is for both sides just to realize that the only change is that more Halo games are coming out, and they will inevitably be different. Cant we all just enjoy Halo as a series, rather than priding ourselves on our "favorite Halo game"?
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    mr farenhiet

    mr farenhiet

    12/12/2012 5:18:44 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ryan299 the low online population of halo 4 proves that this series is dying.[/quote] You must not be familiar with the post launch population decline pretty much every game experiences. Once exams are over for college students and people get the game over the holidays, this will change. Its only been one month since release. OT: I'm a Halo fan. Franchises grow and evolve as more material is added. Would people truly be happy with a carbon copy of the original trilogy? Tbh, this is all being overblown in such a melodramatic way. This percieved distinction between "new" and "old" Halo is only being made so people have something to -blam!- about. 343i has done a wonderful job of carrying on the torch and faithfully elaborating on Halo's fiction. I've been with the series from the beginning, and everything 343i has added, both canon and gameplay wise, seems to be a logical evolution of where the series was heading. I'm glad that Halo was picked up by a fresh developer that is passionate about keeping the the lore of series consistent and actually wants to make Halo games (as opposed to being obligated by contract).I feel as if the very vocal minority of detractors wanted the game to fail simply because it doesn't have "Bungie" on the cover. I am also a big Bungie fan, and I'm happy to see the fruit of their labor continue to grow and prosper while they are free to sow the seeds of their next harvest. [Edited on 12.11.2012 9:23 PM PST]
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    ryaN 299

    ryaN 299

    12/11/2012 10:37:32 PM Permalink
    its halo vs cod of halo. majority of fans i've noticed don't like the way halo is heading so they are getting out. i for one hate new halo. reach started the split and halo 4 set it in stone. the developers killed halo. in their haste to compete with cod they innovated the wrong way. they moved towards them when halo has always been the opposite, which is why people loved it. by doing this bungie, to a certain extent, then 343 killed the community. series will only recover if they go back to what halo is. the low online population of halo 4 proves that this series is dying.
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    ROBERTO jh

    ROBERTO jh

    12/11/2012 10:15:29 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CapttainNEM0 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen It's no longer 'yo you like Halo? Awesome lets be friends' but now 'Yo I love Halo 4 and Reach, wat those game are garbage. The original Halo trilogy is where it's at. OMG you don't like that? slow paced wat? Get outta mah way you COD kid.'[/quote] This whole thing wouldn't even be an issue if they would have left the core of the game the same, and just built upon it. I don't play CoD, but I respect the developers in that they stuck to what worked for them, and they have a huge following because of it. People always say "the game has to change to get better", but what they don't understand is principles. The game's original foundation was fine (CE), all they had to do to "make it better" was build upon that foundation. [/quote] That's exactly what they did. Halo's gameplay has always been a strafe-centric twitch shooter with a primary focus on guns, grenades and melee. Halo 4 retains those core priniciples and adds to it; nothing about perks, specializations or even AA dictate the outcome of a firefight or a game by extension. It all ultimately comes back down to whoever outshot the other. Saying that you wanted Halo 4 to build on the existing core principles but deny that's what Halo 4 did is a contradiction. You can't build on something without changing some part of it, but you also can't build directly on the foundation because that would be changing the core, which also wouldn't go over well with fans. Halo 4 simply added to the existing principles already set and branched from there. No game can survive remaining the same. CoD, being the most popular, is the exception. It was necessary for Halo to survive, and was inevitable the day CoD beat out Halo. [Edited on 12.11.2012 2:17 PM PST]
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    fsabran

    fsabran

    12/11/2012 10:02:20 PM Permalink
    Star wars has a multitude of ways to tell a story, multiple point of view, multiple games some more competitive then others and yadayadayada, their fanvase is not split neither is warhammer 40K or a few others, when a new game/movie/book is released with another take on the situation they dont hate it, they embrace it, seriouly im starting to think that the Halo fanbase is icredbily spoiled and for lack of a better term thick, if it doesnt follow the exact same path as the previous ones it sucks and there's no discussion, what the hell people? this wouldnt be hapening in other franchises, but here it happens incredbily often, why? why does it happen?
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    Najar

    Najar

    12/11/2012 7:31:19 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CapttainNEM0 Support your existing fan-base, and it will continue to grow. But if you alter the game to draw in players that didn't care before, you push away the existing fan-base because the outside players didn't play the game for a reason, and the Halo players played for a reason. [/quote] Here. Indeed, I like Halo 4 multiplayer myself. However, it lacks something that was there specially in Halo 2 and for some time in Halo 3. Something that I can't explain, it's like the way the community acted, people didn't take the game too seriously, they played, they enjoyed, THEY TALKED (no one talks anymore! WHY?), they joked around. It was FUN! real fun, now it's like everyone just plays to get to their next rank and not because they want to spend some time online to stress out and have fun. Halo 4 got this much better than Halo: Reach, I must say. It has been a while since I had Halo-like fun in a game's multiplayer, but I feel that something is still missing.
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    Eshcka

    Eshcka

    12/11/2012 3:34:46 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen It's no longer 'yo you like Halo? Awesome lets be friends' but now 'Yo I love Halo 4 and Reach, wat those game are garbage. The original Halo trilogy is where it's at. OMG you don't like that? slow paced wat? Get outta mah way you COD kid.'[/quote] This whole thing wouldn't even be an issue if they would have left the core of the game the same, and just built upon it. I don't play CoD, but I respect the developers in that they stuck to what worked for them, and they have a huge following because of it. People always say "the game has to change to get better", but what they don't understand is principles. The game's original foundation was fine (CE), all they had to do to "make it better" was build upon that foundation. I personally think that if Halo had only evolved in terms of graphics, addition of new weapons and vehicles that do not replace the old ones, tweaks and adjustments that make jumping and melee more smooth, the game would have accumulated a steadily growing fan-base. I think what has hurt Halo the most, is change. Another thing people always say is "I don't want Halo to always be the same thing, it gets so old!". I agree that if the game was exactly the same every title, it would get old. That is way new weapons, vehicles, and maps are important. The people that like to play Halo because of Halo's specific play-style, won't get tired of it because they enjoy it. The people that get tired of it can simply play a game that offers them something "new". Halo shouldn't change because people want to play something new. Support your existing fan-base, and it will continue to grow. But if you alter the game to draw in players that didn't care before, you push away the existing fan-base because the outside players didn't play the game for a reason, and the Halo players played for a reason.
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    Eshcka

    Eshcka

    12/11/2012 3:15:31 PM Permalink
    Each specialization, when completed, unlocks a perk you can use that gives you an advantage. Wetwork: Reduces "flinch" when taking fire, and increases accuracy when firing rapidly. Operator: Increases vehicle health (the amount of damage a vehicle can take), and reduces the amount of time a vehicle is effected by an EMP. Pathfinder: Decreases the speed at which turrets overheat, and increases your walking speed when carrying a turret. Pioneer: Increases the amount of XP earned at the end of a game (I think). Tracker: I'm not exactly sure what tracker does, but from what I've heard, it allows you to see an enemy you have dealt considerable damage to after that player has gone out of sight (like if you weren't quite able to kill him before he ran away). I think it works like Promethean vision. There is one that makes you hard to see in PV. There are a few more, I just can't remember them all at the moment. :/
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    ninjakenzen

    ninjakenzen

    12/11/2012 3:07:31 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CapttainNEM0 The games haven't changed nearly as much as the community, but the games can change the community, and they have.[/quote] Yeah, they changed the Halo community alright. To those who play Halo 4 and those who don't. There seems to be a growing split in the fan base post-Reach. It arguably stemmed from Reach. But if you're willing to look back enough, Halo 2. But it's never been to such a large extent where it became two distinct opposing sides [example]Bungie vs Waypoint faction. It's becoming quite noticeable in BU alone. One example would be those who consider 343i take on the story not being 'Halo' enough or on the other side, some would consider it to be more Halo. The same argument can be said for gameplay. The more drastic changes there are the more divided people are. Some might like the change some might absolutely hate it. But what is clear, is that the fanbase is definitely becoming more divided. It's no longer 'yo you like Halo? Awesome lets be friends' but now 'Yo I love Halo 4 and Reach, wat those game are garbage. The original Halo trilogy is where it's at. OMG you don't like that? slow paced wat? Get outta mah way you COD kid.' Oh wells. fortunately I'm impartial to public opinion. People say Halo 4 is an amazing game. 9.8 says IGN. The future of Halo's new glorious trilogy says others. I played the game, found strengths and weaknesses. I think it's garbage. I just find it funny how contrasting views can be. It really is true. One man's poison is another man's cure. That's what it comes down to in the end [opinion]. It's just the way I see it. Almost everything was handled wrong. With the exception of the CGI which was a nice distracting change. But again, being immersed with the series since it's inception. I would have to lie to myself to agree that this is worthy of being called Halo 4. I can't help feel that way. I want it to be awesome and I want Halo to achieve what it had done in the past again. But everything just screams. This is a bad game and I should feel bad for playing it.
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    SOME GUY789
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