It may look as simple as that in TTW but it's thankfully not. If Humanity were the IoM's little brother then I doubt there would be ex-Covenant refugees on Earth. Really though, it's just one person with too much power. (And not enough intelligence)

After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [Edited on 12.05.2012 6:03 PM PST]

Am i the only one who would have folowed Maggie's example but without all the Halsey's hate, it was only logical, even if a new covenant wasnt formed and the arbiter got hold of shangeilios, in a few decades when everyone was back in one piece, there would be a new system, there would be a new power strugle to see who controled the galaxy, and there would be war, just like the insurectionist war, but on a galatic scale, and what's the best way to avoid that, destroy your oponents, create weapons to criple them, prepare an arsenal and guarante humanity's superiority agaisnt those them xenos, LONG LIVE HUMANITY! LONG LIVE THE GOD EMPEROR! [Edited on 12.05.2012 6:14 PM PST]

You seriously need to distinguish between ONI (who are retarded, evil, sadistic, petty, spiteful -blam!--heads...well, Parangosky and other leader at least, and anyone willing to go along with their plan, which is few) and the rest of Humanity. The UNSC wants peace with the Elites and is working toward that...all the while that Parangosky is actively going against and trying to subvert the goals of the government. Right now ONI is a traitor/rogue organization, they are not representative of Humanity or the UNSC/UEG. If you're going to have beef with anyone, have it with the actual scum and villainy, don't ascribe their deeds and goals to everyone else.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa You seriously need to distinguish between ONI (who are retarded, evil, sadistic, petty, spiteful -blam!--heads...well, Parangosky and other leader at least, and anyone willing to go along with their plan, which is few) and the rest of Humanity. The UNSC wants peace with the Elites and is working toward that...all the while that Parangosky is actively going against and trying to subvert the goals of the government. Right now ONI is a traitor/rogue organization, they are not representative of Humanity or the UNSC/UEG. If you're going to have beef with anyone, have it with the actual scum and villainy, don't ascribe their deeds and goals to everyone else.[/quote]

So basically genocide done on humanity because ONI wants to commit genocide on the Elites to prevent another possible genocide by the Elites like the one they committed in the Human-Covenant War is fine to you? Would you prefer the term Stalinite or Hitlerite good sir? Neither ONI or Jul or the Didact are in the right...but hey I guess mass murder is fine for you.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [/quote] Yeah, and the only "good guy" who wants peace - Lord Hood - is called a retard then immediately dismissed.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [/quote] Yeah, and the only "good guy" who wants peace - Lord Hood - is called a retard then immediately dismissed.[/quote]yeah, my point exactly.

I really hope that in Halo 5, Master Chief goes after Parangotsky and ONI, terrible management. Lets go after the race that the majority of want peace with humanity.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Would you prefer the term Stalinite or Hitlerite good sir? [/quote]Godwin's Law confirmed.

Everyone is a total prick in the newer books. Especially the forerunners.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [/quote] The Covenant separatists are the good Sangheili, their ascetic leadership actively sponsors pro-human views and until 343 deliver a specific retconn for this issue I will hold onto the vain belief that they just packed them into a box for some time later when they are done trying to pander to the Sci-Mi experience.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] trojanlord95 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [/quote] The Covenant separatists are the good Sangheili, their ascetic leadership actively sponsors pro-human views and until 343 deliver a specific retconn for this issue I will hold onto the vain belief that they just packed them into a box for some time later when they are done trying to pander to the Sci-Mi experience.[/quote]I said Elite separatists, not Covenant separatists. By Elite separatists I mean groups like the storm and the Servants of Abiding Truth that want to overthrow the Arbiter.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [/quote] The good guys do have a say. Play a game or read a book from the past ten years and you'll see what they have to say. The purpose of Kilo-Five is to reinforce that not everyone is friendly as Halo 3 would have us believe, not everyone agrees, and no one is completely in the right (you know, like in real life). The good guys are still represented in the books, but are kept for minor rolls because there are other important manners they have to cover first. There can only be so much.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra So basically genocide done on humanity because ONI wants to commit genocide on the Elites to prevent another possible genocide by the Elites like the one they committed in the Human-Covenant War is fine to you? Would you prefer the term Stalinite or Hitlerite good sir? Neither ONI or Jul or the Didact are in the right...but hey I guess mass murder is fine for you.[/quote]Yep, thats right kill those xeno bastards! But seriouly, call me all you want, but i would have done it, maybe not kill all of them, but at least criple their society so that they woulndt be a threat to humanity. [Edited on 12.06.2012 7:30 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dragonzzilla Crap, if I was given the choice to serve alongside the elites or the Didact with me and my family protected from their campaign, I would join them! Why? Because I just finished reading Thursday War. Humans have become major -blam!-s after the Human Covenant War... I understand the need to secure and keep an eye on your former enemy. But having thoughts of glassing Sanghelios? Hatching plans to biological sabotage what little food the elites can grow? Not to mention have them fight among each other in petty war!? I thought humanity would be better than this but I guess not. Sign me up, you xenophobic warlords.[/quote]Implying we were ever an "honorable" or decent species to begin with.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] fsabran Am i the only one who would have folowed Maggie's example but without all the Halsey's hate, it was only logical, even if a new covenant wasnt formed and the arbiter got hold of shangeilios, in a few decades when everyone was back in one piece, there would be a new system, there would be a new power strugle to see who controled the galaxy, and there would be war, just like the insurectionist war, but on a galatic scale, and what's the best way to avoid that, destroy your oponents, create weapons to criple them, prepare an arsenal and guarante humanity's superiority agaisnt those them xenos, LONG LIVE HUMANITY! LONG LIVE THE GOD EMPEROR![/quote]Maggie's tactics are understandable. Practical even. Take them out now, and never worry about them again. I however prefer Hood's plan, I can certainly see where Maggie is coming from.

I want to see Maggie scheming it up with Osman through communications, only for Lord Hood to burst in, karate chop her in the neck, and shout "REMEMBER WHO DA MAN 'ROUND HERE!"

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 I want to see Maggie scheming it up with Osman through communications, only for Lord Hood to burst in, karate chop her in the neck, and shout "REMEMBER WHO DA MAN 'ROUND HERE!"[/quote]GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN GRANDMA!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different? Many of these elites piloted ships that burned entire worlds filled with innocent civilians, and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it. Anyway, ONI's actions, and Vaz's strawman beliefs do not represent all of humanity, not even all of the UNSC. Earth is even accepting ex-Covenant refugees as of six months after Halo 4. One of the biggest gripes I have with Kilo-Five is that it only shows the PoV of the -blam!-s: ONI, and the elite separatists. The good guys don't ever get a say. [/quote] The good guys do have a say. Play a game or read a book from the past ten years and you'll see what they have to say. The purpose of Kilo-Five is to reinforce that not everyone is friendly as Halo 3 would have us believe, not everyone agrees, and no one is completely in the right (you know, like in real life). The good guys are still represented in the books, but are kept for minor rolls because there are other important manners they have to cover first. There can only be so much.[/quote]We have yet to see the perspective of any of the good guys post war. I get your point about the theme of moral complexity, but honestly all it does is make me hate all the main characters and make it look like all the elites and humans are scheming bastards. It's annoying.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh The good guys do have a say. Play a game or read a book from the past ten years and you'll see what they have to say. The purpose of Kilo-Five is to reinforce that not everyone is friendly as Halo 3 would have us believe, not everyone agrees, and no one is completely in the right (you know, like in real life). The good guys are still represented in the books, but are kept for minor rolls because there are other important manners they have to cover first. There can only be so much.[/quote] If that's what helps you sleep at night :P That is exactly why the whole Trashlands Trilogy is such a god awful book (besides Traviss deciding her views are the only ones and are completely right while everyone else and the previously established lore/canon is wrong), the fact that is does not acknowledge any other presence than the ones expressed by the characters. None of what you listed is talked about or shown at all, it's completely ignored because in Traviss and 343i's non-canon little perversion on Halo, none of it exists. Both sides of anything in a book need to be given a presence, that doesn't mean giving them a spot as a point of view character or even making them a hugely major character, it just means having them present at some points and/or talked about. If you just present one view and that one alone, the story becomes one-dimensional and poorly developed. That was one of the main reasons for Ackerson existing besides providing minor conflict, to present a view other than what the protagonists think and their opinions. Or in Harry Potter for instance, the characters from the Ministry of Magic, with the exception of Dolores Umbridge, who don't believe Voldemort has returned are all good guys, they clearly want to get rid of the Death Eaters and share the same overall goals as the good guys, but they don't agree with the protagonists on plenty of issues. In order to have depth, more than one side needs to be present, which Trashlands completely lacked. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spartan1995324 Maggie's tactics are understandable. Practical even. Take them out now, and never worry about them again. I however prefer Hood's plan, I can certainly see where Maggie is coming from.[/quote] Hardly, they're the tactics of someone who's a completely mad and gone senile. There is no sense to it, if Maggot Parangosky was really that worried about humanity she would be working with the government and supporting the Arbiter's forces, instead, all she wants is revenge to satisfy her petty and spiteful nature. She just wants all Elites gone, not because they're a threat (because they aren't), but because she wants revenge and thinks that she knows better than anyone else. There's nothing practical about it, in fact, Parangosky's plan is very juvenile and the equivalent of two little kids fighting on the playground. Parangosky's whole attitude is the same as going, "you hit me, so I'm going to hit you back harder and them I'm going to go kick your whole family". It's good you don't take psycho--blam!-'s side, but there's nothing to see where Parangosky is coming from except insanity and raving lunacy.

It's just ONI. They're arseholes.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different?[/quote] That presupposes that I know how bad it was, or that I even knew it was taking place though. The war's impact was hidden well enough for people to say things like these on at least Earth: "-could flatten 'em - but we're too concerned with the rights of sentient -" "We should be negotiating with the Covenant" "It's Human expansionism that causes this whole resentment" They were completely ignorant of the reality of the situation. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it.[/quote] They should.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 After decades of genocide and death at the hands of the elites, who can say you would feel any different?[/quote] That presupposes that I know how bad it was, or that I even knew it was taking place though. The war's impact was hidden well enough for people to say things like these on at least Earth: "-could flatten 'em - but we're too concerned with the rights of sentient -" "We should be negotiating with the Covenant" "It's Human expansionism that causes this whole resentment" They were completely ignorant of the reality of the situation. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 and for the most part they don't even seem to feel bad about it.[/quote] They should.[/quote]those people are in denial. Everyone knew that worlds were falling left and right. Humanity was nearly driven to extinction by the elites, and if I were them I would feel great resentment. I'm not saying that I agree with ONI and Vaz, quite the contrary, but I can certainly say that I can relate to their feelings. And the Elites should feel bad, they just nearly wiped out an entire species of sentient being with lives and families, that did absolutely nothing to provoke them.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 those people are in denial. Everyone knew that worlds were falling left and right.[/quote] No evidence to suggest this. Meanwhile, the Halo Graphic Novel sitting right next to me says that they had no idea what is truly going on thanks to ONI Section 2. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 but I can certainly say that I can relate to their feelings.[/quote] I doubt you would relate to the feeling of allowing children to suffer, no matter what the species. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 And the Elites should feel bad, they just nearly wiped out an entire species of sentient being with lives and families, that did absolutely nothing to provoke them. [/quote] So why is there not a single element of their society that does?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 those people are in denial. Everyone knew that worlds were falling left and right.[/quote] No evidence to suggest this. Meanwhile, the Halo Graphic Novel sitting right next to me says that they had no idea what is truly going on thanks to ONI Section 2. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 but I can certainly say that I can relate to their feelings.[/quote] I doubt you would relate to the feeling of allowing children to suffer, no matter what the species. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 And the Elites should feel bad, they just nearly wiped out an entire species of sentient being with lives and families, that did absolutely nothing to provoke them. [/quote] So why is there not a single element of their society that does?[/quote]Are you arguing that the Elites shouldn't feel bad for what they did? They were lied to and misled by the prophets but that doesn't wash the blood from their hands. Personally, I think that many elites are condemning humanity in order to absolve themselves of the guilt of having committed a merciless genocide. As for the rest, I didn't read the graphic novel, so you may be right, but regardless, the characters that portray the feelings of hatred towards the elites did know the full extent of their crimes, and I can understand their hatred. I don't agree with it, and find it very hypocritical, but I can understand it. [Edited on 12.07.2012 8:12 PM PST]