Chief's just been buffed, it was implied that Hard Light is its own self contained network (and, if you'll notice, she may have contained the explosion since as soon as the ship fell apart, she died). Forerunners have always been space magic. Hard light was introduced in Halo 1, and seeing as its LIGHT, it can take any shape required. The Halos, which magically erase you from existence, were also introduced in Halo 1. You think that Halo's 1-3 were somehow less fantasy? The only difference is that 4 focuses on the Forerunners a bit more. [Edited on 12.04.2012 7:59 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Chief's just been buffed, it was implied that Hard Light is its own self contained network (and, if you'll notice, she may have contained the explosion since as soon as the ship fell apart, she died). Forerunners have always been space magic. Hard light was introduced in Halo 1, and seeing as its LIGHT, it can take any shape required. The Halos, which magically erase you from existence, were also introduced in Halo 1. You think that Halo's 1-3 were somehow less fantasy? The only difference is that 4 focuses on the Forerunners a bit more.[/quote] I didn't have a problem with hardlight before becuase they weren't being manipulated without a power source! The shield around chief was being projected by NOTHING. The nuke had ALREADY gone off, Cortana should've been INSTANTLY destroyed, INSTANTLY.

Yeah. I'm not sure how he survived the nuke at point bank. I like to believe he hit it and then ran or something like it was on a timer.

She could have started to combine or channel the hardlight to his shields even before he blew the nuke and transferred the rest of it around his armor right before the explosion and afterward rapidly expanded it into the shield you see in the cutscene and from then on it rapidly deteriorated until it finally collapsed.

Halo has always been science-fantasy.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Halo has always been science-fantasy. [/quote] But it was never to this extent. They might as well have people using the force - oh wait...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Halo has always been science-fantasy. [/quote] But it was never to this extent. They might as well have people using the force - oh wait...[/quote]I've heard this a lot lately, exactly what in Halo was indicative of being [i]science fantasy[/i] before? [i]Science fiction[/i], is still fictional ideas of what science could do, it's not just science in a story/fiction right? There are levels of how [i]hard[/i] the science fiction is, and also how [i]high[/i] or [i]low[/i]. The [i]hard[/i] factor would determine how much it tried to explain everything in a plausible/grounded way, according to known science, and [i]high/low[/i] would determin the level of the technology. Low would be something like having a [i]nano-carbon cable[/i] (or something) strong enough to build a space elevator, or medical science that allowed humans to life twice as long; very grounded. High on the other hand would be the pinacle of what science [i]could[/i] do, like having a something that could materialise and assemble mass, move stars, etc. But of course, these terms have different names depending on who one is talking to... I hope my explanation comes across though. The difference between sci-[i]fiction[/i] and sci-[i]fantasy[/i] however, is more of a meta thing; more about where the focus is; how or if the story chooses to [b]simply feature science or be about science[/b]. For instance, what would Star Wars before the midichlorians were introduced be? Would it be sci-fantasy; there are scientific solutions, but still an unexplained element that defined the world, and in terms of story, it's rarely [i]about[/i] science? Star Trek on the other hand is primerily about introducing [i]scientific phenomenas[/i] and how they are dealt with, would that be [i]science fiction[/i]? I'd say yes to both.. Something as hard light existing without a source would be a more [i]fantastical[/i] version of hard light that needed one, but I'd say that it's more of a [i]low/high[/i] debate rather than [i]sci-fiction/sci-fantasy[/i]... What is Halo then? Would a Micro Dyson Sphere take a step further towards [i]high[/i] than a Halo ring just because of its size? I'd say no, but since it's in a slipstream bubble, yes. [b]Hard light without a source would be one step even further, but has it gone too far?[/b] What would be too far?

I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA. [Edited on 12.05.2012 4:51 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I also love the armor lock animation he does as he attains his higher evolutionary status lol. But if he indeed "evolved" so much to the point that the composer didn't even recognize him to be a "human target". Shouldn't he not even "look" human once his helmet was taken off? His body, mind, EVERYTHING should've been much better than every human around him. His bio readings wouldn't match that of [i]anything[/i] previously recorded [i]ever[/i]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I also love the armor lock animation he does as he attains his higher evolutionary status lol. But if he indeed "evolved" so much to the point that the composer didn't even recognize him to be a "human target". Shouldn't he not even "look" human once his helmet was taken off? His body, mind, EVERYTHING should've been much better than every human around him. His bio readings wouldn't match that of [i]anything[/i] previously recorded [i]ever[/i][/quote] Cortana says when you get in the lift that your bio readings are "off the charts"... We notice in the Epilogue that he has grown at least another foot (compare how he was only slightly smaller than Palmer in the 4th mission but is now about 2 heads taller now), and we can hardly judge his actual physical appearance since we only see his eyes.

What? sorry but Halo has never been realistic, ships that are lighter than air (PoA) fusion torches that somehow get plus 30 G's acellerations, SMAC's, the NOVA and the forerunners, Halo has never been realistic at all, or eve inteligent when it comes to the physic's department, the 600 ton slug at 30/KM s is one of the most wastefull and retarded rounds ever, when ME manages to be more realisticaly then your universe, you know something is wrong. I sugest you go to spacebattles to see how "realistic"Halo really is. [Edited on 12.05.2012 8:32 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] fsabran What? sorry but Halo has never been realistic, ships that are lighter than air (PoA) fusion torches that somehow get plus 30 G's acellerations, SMAC's, the NOVA and the forerunners, Halo has never been realistic at all, or eve inteligent when it comes to the physic's department, the 600 ton slug at 30/KM s is one of the most wastefull and retarded rounds ever, when ME manages to be more realisticaly then your universe, you know something is wrong. I sugest you go to spacebattles to see how "realistic"Halo really is.[/quote]So, what you're saying is that there aren't any levels of how [i]unrealistic[/i] something is, it's either realistic or unrealistic? We've been through this before, but how exactly is a SMAC or a NOVA [i]unrealistic[/i]? Is a flashcloned A.I realistic, is a Halo realistic, are the two comparable to faster than light or antigrav? There are tons of levels and variables, some are grounded some aren't, it's really not fair to dismiss Halo as [i]unrealistic[/i]. It's science fiction, but still, not outright dumb, even if there are a couple of dumb instances. I'd just call it inconsistant; at times not thought through. Example: The Forerunner are capable of planting geas, cloning and manipulating evolution, at times within seconds, and on the other hand they're not capable of emigrating someones mind to the digital.. Even though humans with their--in comparison--low tech are able to creat a digital host/digital brain replica, which is half the way. And exactly how does the UNSC manage to keep an artificial gravitational pull on their space ships. There are more examples. The second thing you have to note is that when you state that it's [i]never been realistic,[/i] you can't exactly go on and name examples that are introduced far into the series. Example: The PoA wasn't built for in-atmosphere at first, that's something Reach added. And before Ghosts of Onyx, even the Forerunner were quite grounded. The Halo ínstallations used basic physical principles to maintain an artificial gravity, and they relied heavily on gas to power all their tech. Something like slipstream is as far as we know [i]unrealistic[/i], but there are [i]wormhole[/i] theories in modern physics. Slipstream is just a science fiction take on it, and it isn't like the were able to do it without any limmitations, it was a pretty high rated activity. The more stuff that's been put into the universe, the larger the chances are something will be off. But don't tell me it's never been grounded/realistic. Halo is inconsistent, but it's really unfair to call it dumb and unrealistic. And how exactly is [i]Omni-tech[/i] more realistic? :P

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [/quote]Then why are you calling it dumb and unrealistic now, im not going to argue about the individual points right now because i have other things to do, but i am going to say this, ME is more realistic, because the Codex writer at least try to stick somewhat to physics and actual military tactics. Thats why while the UNSC guns are equivalent to 1960's guns theirs are actulay advanced and also why their mass acelerators are not retarded, in counterpoint to the UNSC that instead of using light but fast rounds instead of ridicously slow (for space) and heavy MAC's, Then we have the SMAC's, thats proof of the UNSC's stupidity, with the power required to acelerate a 3000 ton round to 12000 Km/s they could have built a much more eficient microwave emiter that could have melted the covenant ships much faster than the SMAC's could destroy,and the NOVA managed to somehow create a pressure wave in space, do you know how retarded that is, the whole reason why there isn't fire on space is because there is not enight oxygen and or other gases to suport it, yet somehow the NOVA "Herp Derp 9 nuclear warheads encased in Derp" bomb managed to create a Pressure wave, i repeat A PRESSURE WAVE! in space. oh, and the PoA being lighter than Air was calculated in the fall of reach for your information.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I also love the armor lock animation he does as he attains his higher evolutionary status lol. But if he indeed "evolved" so much to the point that the composer didn't even recognize him to be a "human target". Shouldn't he not even "look" human once his helmet was taken off? His body, mind, EVERYTHING should've been much better than every human around him. His bio readings wouldn't match that of [i]anything[/i] previously recorded [i]ever[/i][/quote] Cortana says when you get in the lift that your bio readings are "off the charts"... We notice in the Epilogue that he has grown at least another foot (compare how he was only slightly smaller than Palmer in the 4th mission but is now about 2 heads taller now), and we can hardly judge his actual physical appearance since we only see his eyes.[/quote] He was smaller than Palmer, originally? Really? I need to go through the campaign again...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] fsabran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka [/quote]Then why are you calling it dumb and unrealistic now, [/quote]What, don't skimm, read. I'm arguing that it's a gradual scale, that the more [i]scientific fiction inconsistencies[/i] one adds, the more inconsistent the entire fiction becomes, and that it began relatively grounded. That it isn't dumb and unrealistic for a science fiction story/world, as ÿou say it is. I even took up an example of something that wasn't grounded (ugh, no pun intended) in the first game.[quote]im not going to argue about the individual points right now because i have other things to do, but i am going to say this, ME is more realistic, because the Codex writer at least try to stick somewhat to physics and actual military tactics.[/quote] [quote][u]Thats why while the UNSC guns are equivalent to 1960's guns theirs are actulay advanced and also why their mass acelerators are not retarded,[/quote]A sniper rifle that allows a human being to fire a round that's larger than a Barret, whilst standing, sixties tech. Just being capable of distributing recoil for it to work is an accomplishment of its own. That's science fiction too. You're brushing through and dismissing everything far to quickly. [quote]in counterpoint to the UNSC that instead of using light but fast rounds instead of ridicously slow (for space) and heavy MAC's, Then we have the SMAC's, thats proof of the UNSC's stupidity, with the power required to acelerate a 3000 ton round to 12000 Km/s they could have built a much more eficient microwave emiter that could have melted the covenant ships much faster than the SMAC's could destroy,[/quote]This is only assumption. Sure, the tech required to build a gigantic microwave might be sound, but that doesn't say anything. Have you thought about the consequences of it, the possibilities, maintenence, construction cost, material, etc? Probably not. Just adding a random possibility to a universe/fiction without consequence doesn't really work. And what's to say that would work on the Covenants shields? As far as humanity knows a [i]mass accelerated[/i] object is harder to deflect or absorb than microwaves. [quote]and the NOVA managed to somehow create a pressure wave in space, do you know how retarded that is, the whole reason why there isn't fire on space is because there is not enight oxygen and or other gases to suport it, yet somehow the NOVA "Herp Derp 9 nuclear warheads encased in Derp" bomb managed to create a Pressure wave, i repeat A PRESSURE WAVE! in space.[/quote]Again; another thing you're dismissing because of a most obvious factor. What would you call an explosion in space? What happens if a bomb is detonated in space, does it simply not work casue there aren't any gases there? Do you even know what a NOVA is made of, what principle/s it relies on? For all we know, it could have been pressure waves becasue of internal matter that later transplanted onto the nearby planet and surrounding ships, objects. The only things one can bring up in this kind of discussions are the elements that contradict each other, or elements that are thoroughly defined, yet work against itself/themselves. [quote]oh, and the PoA being lighter than Air was calculated in the fall of reach for your information.[/quote]I'll have to revisit this. Wonder why it was never mentioned on the countless [i]Reach is not canon[/i] threads? ...

1: It is Sci Fi and Forerunners could bend time so why not light. 2: Throw a nuke are you kidding!, and when in Halo 3 did the Chief throw a Nuke or did I miss something!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Atomic Tea He was smaller than Palmer, originally? Really? I need to go through the campaign again...[/quote] Sorry, I don't think I managed to articulate that point very well. When John first meets Palmer in [i]Infinity[/i], he is only slightly taller than her. (Pictures for reference: [url=http://i3.minus.com/iSz6xrasxaHr5.jpg]1[/url] & [url=http://i3.minus.com/ihyDHnNZ1qq7L.jpg]2[/url]) After the Librarian accelerates John's evolutionary journey, we see by the end of the game that he has [i]noticably[/i] grown. (Pictures for reference: [url=http://i3.minus.com/ibzlkP1kGR2Z5r.jpg]3[/url] & [url=http://i4.minus.com/ipFL9OMJcx2wB.jpg]4[/url]) Palmer is, [url=http://www.halowaypoint.com/en-US/halo4guide]according to 343i's interactive guide[/url], 6'9 feet tall. John is, with armour, 7'2. By the end of Halo 4, he looks like he's grown to about 8 feet.

The forerunners have always depended on space magic. They are God tier on the tech scale, of course what they use will seem like magic to the primitive masses. The hard light thing does bug me a bit, but it's possible that after the nuke went off, she kept it going with chief's armor, or maybe hard light can last a little while without a projector, I really have no idea how it works.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Halo has always been science-fantasy. [/quote] But it was never to this extent. They might as well have people using the force - oh wait...[/quote] That just made my day. On another note, I never really thought of the Didact as much of a villain. You never saw much of him.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I know what she was doing. But the animation of it with the Chief glowing and hovering in the air looked like she was giving him magic superpowers and not something that you would call science. On top of that evolution isn't something that you can "accelerate"; it is a process that takes place from generation to generation through natural selection. So "his evolution" is bull-blam!-. A single individual can't evolve. Yes, I know a video game doesn't have to be realistic and that last part probably was unnecessery, but I just had to mention it. My concern is primarily the hovering and glowing. [Edited on 12.05.2012 12:49 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I know what she was doing. But the animation of it with the Chief glowing and hovering in the air looked like she was giving him magic superpowers and not something that you would call science. On top of that evolution isn't something that you can "accelerate"; it is a process that takes place from generation to generation through natural selection. So "his evolution" is bull-blam!-. A single individual can't evolve. Yes, I know a video game doesn't have to be realistic and that last part probably was unnecessery, but I just had to mention it. My concern is primarily the hovering and glowing.[/quote] John didn't "evolve," he underwent a Forerunner mutation from the looks of it (see Bornstellar). And the Precursors were able to accelerate the evolution of an entire species; this has been established way before Halo 4's release.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja I feel like Halo 4 felt so different compared to all the previous Halo games was because it wasn't scientifically grounded AT ALL. Last time Chief flung himself toward a planet, his armor recieved VISUAL damage. Now he just shrugged it off like a punch. The manipulation of the hardlight technology was a bit TOO far fetched IMO. Light can NEVER be solid, and then later to be able to be manipulated into manacles was just dumb, its only explination was "space magic". And don't get me started on how Cortana was keeping the shield up around MC when the WHOLE SHIP BECAME DEBREE! Cortana at the point had no power to keep the shield up, NONE. Chief should've thrown the nuke and lept into atmospher like in Halo 3. The impact of the nuke would've detonated it, cause he could punch it and activate it. And it would've made sense. Everything seen before in Halo made [i]some[/i] scientific sense before, now a lot of it is explained by "space magic". I could not be immersed into this story like I did before, and I'm upset that 343i could reach the bar that Bungie met. [/quote] You honestly cannot say "at all" for the two situations you provided simply because [b]you[/b] didn't understand Them. Chiefs armor was messed up from his time on the dreadnought in which he was attack by six hunter pairs and a brute captain. Which were the causes from all the visual armor damage that we saw not his fall. NOBLE 6 didn't receive any visual damage from free fall and he didn't have anything shielding him like chief did (the forerunner door). Excuse me, did i miss the part where humanity was advanced enough to determine what can and cannot happen? Just because we don't have the current science to do it does not mean it can not or has not be done before. nearly everything we have to day was said to be "impossible" in the past. Bungie was not perfect with halo and i wish people would stop riding them as if they were. The messed up by saying the covenant used plasma and then said it was some "arcane plasma" which pretty much translation into what you call "space magic". They have repeatedly messed up with the colony numbers and populations, humanity's poor weaponry,the PoA's quick arrival at 04,changing the covenant's fighting style specifically for humanity, not to mention the poor story plots for halo 3 and reach. Obviously you have been "immersed in this story" since you are just now complaining about trivial things yet i have not seen you in here once before about what i have said above or anything else. [Edited on 12.05.2012 1:15 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GrandmasterNinja [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jump Into Hell [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Simjon4two I agree with you OP. And the scene with the librarian like giving you supeeerpowerzzz to defeat da Didact ist just :facepalm:. Or the animation when you use an AA.[/quote] She was accelerating his evolution. Not that far fetched, for a science fiction game.[/quote] I also love the armor lock animation he does as he attains his higher evolutionary status lol. But if he indeed "evolved" so much to the point that the composer didn't even recognize him to be a "human target". Shouldn't he not even "look" human once his helmet was taken off? His body, mind, EVERYTHING should've been much better than every human around him. His bio readings wouldn't match that of [i]anything[/i] previously recorded [i]ever[/i][/quote] Cortana says when you get in the lift that your bio readings are "off the charts"... We notice in the Epilogue that he has grown at least another foot (compare how he was only slightly smaller than Palmer in the 4th mission but is now about 2 heads taller now), and we can hardly judge his actual physical appearance since we only see his eyes.[/quote] What, and his armour grew with him? :S He didn't grow another foot.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog What, [b]and his armour grew with him?[/b] :S He didn't grow another foot.[/quote] Yes, this is the issue with it really. :P There's no denying that he's [i]massive[/i] in the Epilogue though, he should only be 3 inches taller than Palmer but instead he's over a foot taller. The scientists around him are barely above his waistline.