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11/30/2012 2:45:08 AM
274
Does having a Christmas Tree in public really offend anyone???
I see this every year that people get offended that there is a Christmas Tree in like a town square, a public office, etc.
It is now becoming more "politically correct" to say happy Holidays and saying "Merry Christmas" is becoming offensive. Isn't that a bit silly?
It amazes me that people actually protest to have Christmas Trees removed from these places saying it offends them. How does a Tree offend you?
[Edited on 11.29.2012 6:45 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.[/quote] That would cause too much religious tension.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MilitaryTheorist [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 "One nation, under God..." If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... [b]go to a history class[/b] or something lol.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Follow your own advice[/url][/quote] You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.[/quote] American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts. [/quote] Right, that's all I'm saying.[/quote] So, you agree that religious displays should be absent from federal property, correct?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MilitaryTheorist [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 "One nation, under God..." If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... [b]go to a history class[/b] or something lol.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Follow your own advice[/url][/quote] You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.[/quote] American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts. [/quote] Right, that's all I'm saying.[/quote] Don't mention our Government next time then.
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Why do we have to be so politically correct? Such a joke.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie And there are plenty who don't. Your point? Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.[/quote] My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else. [/quote]OK, last time. Its that a government sponsored Christmas tree is a symbol that in order to be included in our society, you must be celebrate Christmas, which is, or has its roots in Christianity. So, a non-Christian would feel excluded from our supposed inclusive society. So, why not deal with the core problem and celebrate ALL faiths? Put up decorations for every religion? Then no one is selected above any other.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MilitaryTheorist [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 "One nation, under God..." If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... [b]go to a history class[/b] or something lol.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Follow your own advice[/url][/quote] You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.[/quote] American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts. [/quote] Right, that's all I'm saying.
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no, we just like to complain
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.[/quote]Safe advice, if you care about your account.
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Listen, when you live in a country where the majority of the population is Christian, then you should know they are going to celebrate Christmas.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 "One nation, under God..." If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... [b]go to a history class[/b] or something lol.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Follow your own advice[/url][/quote] You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.[/quote] Too bad you are wrong. The founders were deist. In fact, John Adams even said; [quote]As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?[/quote] It's pretty obvious he wasn't fond of Christianity. [Edited on 11.29.2012 7:38 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 "One nation, under God..." If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... [b]go to a history class[/b] or something lol.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Follow your own advice[/url][/quote] You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.[/quote] American society is based heavily off Christian norms, but our nation was founded off secular concepts.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie Now, we can either choose between having an inclusive society (and publicly celebrating every represented holiday) or not publicly celebrating any holiday. [/quote] OK, either-or. I highly doubt that anyone would care if any other holiday wanted to publicly celebrate. I have not heard of anyone trying to stop them. If by inclusive, you mean they will all be celebrated like Christmas, that's not going to happen. Those holidays don't have cultural roots in American society like Christmas, nor will they ever. You would have to force society to celebrate a holiday it doesn't want to for it to be as publicly celebrated as Christmas, and somehow I don't think that is a great idea.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie And there are plenty who don't. Your point? Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.[/quote] My point is I don't see how the mere sight of a Christmas Tree offends people enough to want to ruin the enjoyment for everyone else.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AgentCOP1 "One nation, under God..." If you still don't believe that this nation was founded on Christianity now... [b]go to a history class[/b] or something lol.[/quote][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli]Follow your own advice[/url][/quote] You're not getting what I'm saying. Yes, constitutionally the USA doesn't endorse any single religion, but if you look at how many of the founding fathers were Christians, the two religious revitalizations that have occured (which were chiefly Christian), and the pure fact that Christmas is celebrated as a national holiday, Christianity is everywhere in America.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ErranInfigo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url] [/quote] I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.[/quote]Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.[/quote]Not all Christians care what the Pope says... I'd even venture to say that not many Catholics in America care either. (Not that I would really know...)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrBeepBoop It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed. Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good. But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.[/quote] They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together. [/quote]If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.[/quote] There are plenty of non-Christians that celebrate Christmas. [/quote]And there are plenty who don't. Your point? Look, explaining this to you is starting to go both political and religious. So I'm going to back off now, before I get a ban.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrBeepBoop It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed. Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good. But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.[/quote] They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together. [/quote]If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.[/quote] There are plenty of non-Christians that celebrate Christmas. [/quote] I'm a deist, and I celebrate the hell out of Christmas. I get free -blam!-, why wouldn't I celebrate it?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ErranInfigo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url] [/quote] I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.[/quote]Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.[/quote] Did he speak ex cathedra on the matter? If not, it's open for theological disagreement.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrBeepBoop It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed. Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good. But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.[/quote] They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together. [/quote]If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.[/quote]In light of the other tree discussions going on in here, this post makes no sense...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DrBeepBoop It really is stupid when trees are petitioned to be removed. Christmas trees, especially the big ones buisnesses put up, are amazing decorations and only make people happy and look good. But no, you get the random person who is offended by just about anything.[/quote] They are very beautiful and are meant to be something that brings us all together. [/quote]If by "Us" you mean Christians, then you are correct.[/quote] There are plenty of non-Christians that celebrate Christmas.
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Dutchy you're truly offended by xmas trees? So does that mean all pine trees offend you?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PheonixofLight [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ErranInfigo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url] [/quote] I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.[/quote] Given that the tree is a symbol of Christmas, which is in essence a religious holiday for Christianity, I'd say it is. But another point is that it has also become a secular holiday to many people, and has many non religious ties.[/quote] It is a symbol Christmas in the secular sense, I am not even christian and I think the Cross is the symbol for Christ, and therefore is the symbol for the celebration of his birth, (which is off anyway, but that is a different story) the tree came from a Pagan holiday (also related to the date being wrong) and Christmas was used to make the transition from Pagan, to Christian, a lot easier. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ErranInfigo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url] [/quote] I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.[/quote]Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.[/quote] >Not Catholic >Not christian [Edited on 11.29.2012 7:33 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ErranInfigo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url] [/quote] I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.[/quote]Except it really doesn't matter what you think because you have no control over your Church's official position on the matter.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MilitaryTheorist [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url]][/quote] The Pope can add symbolic meaning to any object he pleases, but that doesn't necessarily detract from the object's use as a secular entity. For example, the wine is representative in Christian theology as God's covenant in blood, and the bread symbolizes life. Does this mean that a politician isn't allowed to serve bread or wine at government functions? Another example, the rainbow is a sign of God's promise to never destroy the Earth again via flood. Does this bar government offices from having pictures of rainbows in their offices?[/quote] This is a very good point from the other side of the coin.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ErranInfigo [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] King Dutchy [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST Christmad trees aren't religious and I'm [b]catholic[/b] the are societal symbols pretty common sense here.[/quote][url=http://www.zenit.org/article-11828?l=english]Are you sure about that?[/url] [/quote] I don't give a damn what the Pope says, it isn't a -blam!- symbol of Christ. It was part of the pagan holiday the original celebration absorbed.[/quote]This... So much this... *Protestant So I don't really care what the Pope says...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MyNameIsCharlie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AK FROST I don't believe we should change our culture and ideologies because we invite others into our country. I wouldn't go to another country and do that to them. Christmas has been apart of society for decades why change it now because some people link it to Christianity? Obviously it has now became a societal norm as a celebration. A celebration for what is dependent on whoever interprets it. It's a normal holiday to me to spend time with family. If only everyone thought like that.[/quote] That's just it, we've already invited them, and they are already here. Like I said, placing the religious roots at arm's-length doesn't remove the fact that the roots of teh holiday are religious. Now, we can either choose between having an inclusive society (and publicly celebrating every represented holiday) or not publicly celebrating any holiday. Like someone said above, this is just about the government sponsoring Christmas symbolism. If WalMart or some other private interest wants to put a tree up, fine, that's their choice.[/quote] Interesting point. But will the good out weight the bad. If this becomes not allowed will people become outraged as Christmas has became a societal norm for many years christianity aside? Sociology is an interesting thing isn't it? How it evolves as time moves on. I can see an example like the lords prayer during political netting a but a Christmas tree can be interpreted not only as religious but as socially acceptable maybe this is not becoming the case. Thanks for opening my eyes.
