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switch 104 sv

switch 104 sv

11/19/2012 5:40:23 PM
Finally, Ep. 3 is here. Spoilers or whatever: - The Artifact was a transmitter/teleporter - Jul has made an in-game appearance. :) - Everybody hates Halsey because she's a "war criminal" -__- Thoughts?
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/27/2012 1:47:55 PM Permalink
    On the Spartan IIIs, I think if Ackerson had survived he'd definitely be in a similar situation to Halsey right now. But he died. At the risk of sounding cliche, 'you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.' If I remember right, aside from Osman and BB Kilo-5 looked at the S3s and shook their heads with disgust, and probably assumed it was Halsey's doing too - they certainly weren't told otherwise in either book. And why not? It was a project conceived in a meeting that never happened, involving people who are nearly all dead, on a ship that was never there. If the public's told Halsey's responsible for that too, who is there to argue otherwise? Halsey? The criminal can't be a witness. Parangosky should be locked up too, but she's beyond the law as CINCONI. Halsey is just a civilian, one easily vilified and made a scapegoat of. I'm surprised Mendez hasn't been arrested - he certainly deserves it almost as much as Halsey, Parangosky and Ackerson. Again, this ties back into the idea of a scapegoat - there's a new government, and as there has been after every war there will be an inquiry into what the military did. They'd find out about how the Spartans were created - ONI and the UNSC are covering as many arses as possible by vilifying one individual and vesting all their ethical and legal blame with her. It's not right. Don't think I believe for one second Halsey should be locked up in maximum security, with armed Spartan IVs escorting her everywhere whilst she's turned into an effective slave. I don't like it, but I love the narrative behind it. I have a feeling she'll win her supporters on the Infinity, and escape captivity before the season is done.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/26/2012 9:42:46 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen[/quote]Hear, hear. But, how much focus do you think Halo as a fiction should put on a subject like this? For me it feels kind of monotonous; I mean, how long will this particular subject be debated in the story? It is as it has hung itself up on the most obvious of the [i]controversial[/i] subject in the fiction, and refuses to let go only because there hardly is anything similar to it, that allows the tone to continue as it does with this subject. Of course, we have all sorts of Forerunner/Flood/Precursor dilemmas, but they're all highly ideological and not easy to relate to, nor are they grim'n gritty and all [i]that[/i]. Where will this kind of tone and thematics go when this part of the lore is depleted?
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    ninjakenzen

    ninjakenzen

    11/26/2012 9:10:59 PM Permalink
    Yeah, lets go after Captain Keyes as well. Mendez should be equally punished. You know what, how about the S-1 project be taught to schools as the foundation of ultimate evil. The Spartans in history should also be condemned. Their act of trying to create the perfect solider is unethical, therefore it should never be carried out under any circumstance in any piece of fiction. All experimental projects must put ethics first and if that isn't possible. Then we must just accept failure. Sure the Covenant are miles different from the Rebels. But the means to achieve their goals where the same. Rebels would kill millions of innocents in order to achieve their goals. The abduction of 150 kids is a terrible thing but in the long term they saved millions as well [Even for their original targets, fighting the rebels]. For the parents, they did not even go through the grief of having their children missing and not finding them. The clones were used to counter that. These kids were special, they weren't just any children picked off the streets. It would be unethical no matter which way you looked at it. But was it necessary? That's debatable. But in context to the Halo Universe I would argue yes. They had a greater purpose, [u]to be humanity's greatest soldiers.[/u] That statement alone will always carry a heavy price. Insurrectionist were a major threat to the UNSC. If you really want to look at real life [lol its going there, the point where we take it sci-fiction too seriously] just compare atrocities in history of large scale unethical abuse just look at slavery in America pre-1864. Children were sold like nothing on a much, much greater scale. If you want to go to more recent history. Let's look at Palestinian Children in Gaza. They get abducted and subject to abuse for often times no reason other then just being Palestinian. Where was the law there? Obviously, they're always worse cases and that shouldn't justify such actions. But considering the circumstance in Halo fiction, I would say this is blown way out of proportion. The atomic bomb was a tragedy but if you want to compare this to Halo let's look at the Havok planet killing bombs. They were detonated on civilians as well, without the repercussions as a result felt in WW2. The S-II project isn't comparable to the Atomic bomb ethically. The whole 'would you sacrifice a million to save a billion question' is a crucial theme in many works. But Halsey's project was hardly comparable to sacrificing millions, but she had achieved her end goal. Another stance would be. "Does the end justify the means?". Putting Halsey in such a negative stance, when she actually has Humanity's best interest at heart, more so then the likes of Ackerson and Parang with the absurdly hypocritical S-III project is just bad works of writing. The lack of the S-III being mentioned is shoddy. Ethically it was worse off in every way apart from the better argument procedure and the method in which the candidates were obtained. Let's look at children who were being sent to their deaths, ill-equipped. Just about every main character in Halo has achieved something unethical and punishable by law at some point. The Halo Univere we're exposed to is nearly always in a constant state of war. Morals takes a back seat to survival for many. But it's not like these characters lack a moral compass, it's because they made choices which would be consider unethical. You guys are living in a perfect world made up in your head where everything that you consider is suddenly attention seekingly wrong should be put right. That isn't how any piece of good piece of fiction / reality works. There is no such perfect justice. Especially in the Halo Universe. Otherwise if law is law. Like you say. Every single person in ONI should be locked up. Unless the laws are different. But then we're just nitpicking. Super nerd style. It ultimately is the downfall of works intending for entertainment, for it to be taken as seriously as a bible. [Edited on 11.26.2012 1:54 PM PST]
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/26/2012 5:41:06 PM Permalink
    The employment of the atomic bomb scared Japan into surrendering, which averted the potential deaths of millions of allied soldiers and Japanese civilians. Feudalistic Japan's culture dictated that death was preferable to surrender, and its people wouldn't have just given up after invasion - the majority would have fought to the bitter end, as shown throughout the war in the Pacific. Whilst the bombs killed a horrifying amount and was in my opinion the greatest tragedy of WW2, it saved many more. Honestly, I think it's a much better parallel to what Halsey did than the Mengale/Nuremburg thing Traviss is comparing it to. Unlike the -blam!-s, who murdered out of hatred, Halsey ruined the SII candidates' lives for a reason, just as America did when it dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The difference is, she did it before the event. Imagine if America had invented the atomic bomb before WWII, and had used it on Germany when Hitler had shown signs of expansionism and violating the Treaty of Versailles - bombing Munich so as to convince him not to declare war on Europe. Then it wouldn't have been an act of war, it would have been murder, no matter if Hitler had been about to start the most horrific war in human history. It's the same for Halsey. She took those kids and subjected them to indoctrination and physical brutality, and then ended up killing more than half based on a [i]theory[/i] that the outer colonies would eventually rebel en masse, no matter how likely. That her work ended up instrumental to the survival of humanity is irrelevant; she still committed a crime against said humanity. [i]Dura lex, sed lex*[/i] - The law is hard, but it is the law. [i]Obligatory Latin to prove pseudo-intelligence.[/i]
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    Chester Duncan

    Chester Duncan

    11/26/2012 3:55:20 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeto666 Wolverfrog is legit. He's one of the people in the Universe forum who's opinions and thoughts on Halo I respect. Hell, he knows more about Halo than I do, and I've been playing since the game came out in 2001. On topic: I don't like what they're doing to Halsey, but I can respect it. Hindsight is 20/20. If America and Russia went to all out war, and we created supersoldiers to win that war, and it later turns out they were made to put down radical islam in the Middle east, you can bet your ass that there would be war crimes trials. Perfect example: The nuclear bomb. A lot of people think that America committed war crimes by dropping those bombs on Japan. Do we? Of course not. And at the time? No one objected, because it was ending an already devastating war that was about to get a lot bloodier. So, in Halo, they look back on what Halsey did, and realize that it was wrong. As far as I know, they don't outright admit that they didn't need the Spartans, or that they didn't single handedly save humanity, but they do point out that what was done was, technically, morally wrong. I haven't read Traviss' books, so I'm not sure of the full extent of the charges, but I can understand where this Parangosky fellow is coming from, even if he/she is a bad dude. And besides, every war crime needs a posterchild, so to speak. One person who takes the majority of the blame. Obviously, ONI isn't going to take the blame for its own project, and instead, shift it onto just one of the major people involved in it. [/quote] The hell? The A-bombs were war crimes . You did not go after military targets. More then 50,000 people who had nothing to do with the military died because of those bombs and your saying its not a damn war crime? The -blam!- is then?
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    Ds2vet FL

    Ds2vet FL

    11/25/2012 8:27:28 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cheeto666 Wolverfrog is legit. He's one of the people in the Universe forum who's opinions and thoughts on Halo I respect. Hell, he knows more about Halo than I do, and I've been playing since the game came out in 2001. On topic: I don't like what they're doing to Halsey, but I can respect it. Hindsight is 20/20. If America and Russia went to all out war, and we created supersoldiers to win that war, and it later turns out they were made to put down radical islam in the Middle east, you can bet your ass that there would be war crimes trials. Perfect example: The nuclear bomb. A lot of people think that America committed war crimes by dropping those bombs on Japan. Do we? Of course not. And at the time? No one objected, because it was ending an already devastating war that was about to get a lot bloodier. So, in Halo, they look back on what Halsey did, and realize that it was wrong. As far as I know, they don't outright admit that they didn't need the Spartans, or that they didn't single handedly save humanity, but they do point out that what was done was, technically, morally wrong. I haven't read Traviss' books, so I'm not sure of the full extent of the charges, but I can understand where this Parangosky fellow is coming from, even if he/she is a bad dude. And besides, every war crime needs a posterchild, so to speak. One person who takes the majority of the blame. Obviously, ONI isn't going to take the blame for its own project, and instead, shift it onto just one of the major people involved in it. [/quote] Staying on topic myself, heres the thing: Not reading Glasslands was kind of a double sword. While you avoided the hack writing you also missed out on the controversy. Believe me, as the choice was put forward by another post further down, it definitely is the result of shoddy writing. I really had to force myself to finish that book. I would suggest getting a summary somewhere but dont waste hard earned money on it. I decided for myself that knowing the story first hand in lieu of skipping the shoddy writing in "Thursday War" was just not worth it and settled for a summary of it. Its the first book I havent read in the universe and based on the reactions of the forums, I didnt miss much.
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    flamedude

    flamedude

    11/25/2012 8:17:30 PM Permalink
    I've enjoyed Spartan Ops episode 3. It's the only part of H4 that I've thought "Hey this is actually a lot of fun!", despite having to willingly allow the reuse of maps and Campaign terrain. That's fine to me now that I am starting to get it. I'm hoping for some sort of vindication for Halsey as at the moment I can't work out if the hatred towards her is the result of a really effective smear campaign by ONI or if its just shoddy writing. Palmer could either be a gullible fool who bought into ONI intelligence reports about Halsey and doesn't understand the idea of utilitarian return-on-investment or she's just a badly written character in a world where people never need to make "tough calls" except for evil people. It's a tough pill to swallow especially considering what other things ONI has been up to, and what they've endorsed, as well as coupled with the utterly fearsome intelligence of an average Spartan (see Kat). So for Palmer there are a few possible options; -She's an idiot and doesn't understand that people make 'tough calls' for the greater good. Despite being a Spartan and soldier and commander. -She's badly written and that aspect was never even considered. She's just a stereotype Stargate character who condemns anyone who made a tough call. As for H4 as a whole....... it's lost the spark. Halo always changes a certain amount with each game, but for me the jump from H3/Reach to H4 was just a bit too much. It's not necessarily the whole package, as there are some amazing elements in H4, but just some certain major aspects that pull everything back down. When I look at a game like H1 or even Reach I get a sense of consistency and focus (for better or worse) but with H4 I just get the sense that they didn't really know what they wanted, they just had ideas of things they liked and didn't really wonder how they would work in combination. "A camel is a horse designed by committee"
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    Cheetofreak

    Cheetofreak

    11/25/2012 8:12:33 PM Permalink
    Wolverfrog is legit. He's one of the people in the Universe forum who's opinions and thoughts on Halo I respect. Hell, he knows more about Halo than I do, and I've been playing since the game came out in 2001. On topic: I don't like what they're doing to Halsey, but I can respect it. Hindsight is 20/20. If America and Russia went to all out war, and we created supersoldiers to win that war, and it later turns out they were made to put down radical islam in the Middle east, you can bet your ass that there would be war crimes trials. Perfect example: The nuclear bomb. A lot of people think that America committed war crimes by dropping those bombs on Japan. Do we? Of course not. And at the time? No one objected, because it was ending an already devastating war that was about to get a lot bloodier. So, in Halo, they look back on what Halsey did, and realize that it was wrong. As far as I know, they don't outright admit that they didn't need the Spartans, or that they didn't single handedly save humanity, but they do point out that what was done was, technically, morally wrong. I haven't read Traviss' books, so I'm not sure of the full extent of the charges, but I can understand where this Parangosky fellow is coming from, even if he/she is a bad dude. And besides, every war crime needs a posterchild, so to speak. One person who takes the majority of the blame. Obviously, ONI isn't going to take the blame for its own project, and instead, shift it onto just one of the major people involved in it.
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    Chester Duncan

    Chester Duncan

    11/25/2012 8:02:14 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SOME cGUY789 You know whats funny? I like Halsey she's my second favorite character in Halo. But even then she should still be punished, I never mentioned the poeple behind the S-3 project becasue they aren't Halsey they don't have a place in this argument. If the S-3 project went public in the Halo Universe then I'd want to see the people who were in charge of that, (that are still alive) Punished as well. It really amazes me how some of you think she should be excused becasue of the good shes done. It weird how they think its fine she kinaped around 150 children and willingly let them be put through brutal training at still think she should be put on to of a fricken pedestal as if she was some great Heroine. [/quote] Just to clear something up since it seems every uses this mistake. It was not 150, she only had enough of a budget for half that number.
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/25/2012 7:53:29 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ds2vet FL [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Do you remember how you felt when you watched Halo's announcement video? What you thought when you played CE back in 2001-2002?[/quote] I didn't play Halo until 2008.----- And it is just a game.[/quote] Wow... I think these two statements pretty much define your position on Halo in a nutshell.[/quote] What, because I didn't find the series until later on it makes a difference? I've played all the games, read all the books, written my own books, and so on. It is just a game and ultimately less important than most other things in my life (and if that's not the same for you, I feel sorry for you), but that doesn't mean I'm not as big a fan as anyone here, and probably a bigger one than most.
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    Chester Duncan

    Chester Duncan

    11/25/2012 7:51:40 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ds2vet FL[/quote] Whether it is for a good cause or not, kidnapping children and turning them into war machines is not justified. Because of her the Spartans never got to live the life they wanted. If I remember correctly John promised to marry someone when he was older but because of Halsey that never happened and will never happen now because all he knows of is war.[/quote] Halsey did it because she cared for them and if they didn't do it then ONI would have removed her and put someone who didn't care. The S-II was an ONI pet project, not Halsey's like all of you think. [Edited on 11.25.2012 11:52 AM PST]
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    chubbz

    chubbz

    11/25/2012 7:15:15 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ds2vet FL [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Do you remember how you felt when you watched Halo's announcement video? What you thought when you played CE back in 2001-2002?[/quote] I didn't play Halo until 2008.----- And it is just a game.[/quote] Wow... I think these two statements pretty much define your position on Halo in a nutshell.[/quote] What does that mean?
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    Ds2vet FL

    Ds2vet FL

    11/25/2012 6:23:51 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Do you remember how you felt when you watched Halo's announcement video? What you thought when you played CE back in 2001-2002?[/quote] I didn't play Halo until 2008.----- And it is just a game.[/quote] Wow... I think these two statements pretty much define your position on Halo in a nutshell. [Edited on 11.25.2012 10:29 AM PST]
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    Ds2vet FL

    Ds2vet FL

    11/25/2012 6:07:35 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSpiderChief [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ds2vet FL[/quote] Whether it is for a good cause or not, kidnapping children and turning them into war machines is not justified. Because of her the Spartans never got to live the life they wanted. If I remember correctly John promised to marry someone when he was older but because of Halsey that never happened and will never happen now because all he knows of is war.[/quote] Not to mention that, if Halsey would not kidnap him, he still would not be able to marry someone, because he would have been mutilated by plasma shoot.[/quote] Considering they were from the same planet it's just as likely He would've escaped too.[/quote] You have no idea what the circumstances were that lead to her escape. Its not automatically just as likely. And its hardly the point anyway. I will never accept this over the top character assassination of Halsey by Parangosky (who's more guilty than Hlsey along with several others) just because it fits a hack author's personal narrative.[/quote] The point I was making is it's just as likely precisely because we don't know why she escaped. And when did Parangosky ever seem unguilty she's imo the most vile character in the Halo universe, she definetly needs to pay for all the crap shes done.[/quote] Traviss and 343i dont seem to think so. Theyre perfectly happy empowering Parangosky/Kilo-5 and moving forward with the continuous Halsey bashing, bussiness as usual. [Edited on 11.25.2012 10:32 AM PST]
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/25/2012 5:23:06 PM Permalink
    I'm actually a very friendly chap, I even got invited to a party last year. They asked me to leave when I freaked out because I thought a cigarette I'd smoked was actually a spliff, but I think the thirty-seven-point-five minutes before that show clearly that I'm quite a popular guy. It wasn't personal dude, it never is. I just thought it'd be a humorous take on your question showing that [i]Halo[/i] has always been changing. If you think the same people who made [i]CE[/i] made [i]H3[/i], for example, you're wrong - there were a few, yes, but most of the staff were garnered between then. Jason Jones didn't even work on H3, and he was the one who pretty much single-handedly conceptualised CE and H2. Treating a multi-hundred strong team as a single entity is silly. Yes, there are new developers working on Halo now. Just as there were with H2, H3, ODST and Reach. Only difference is that there aren't as many 'grizzled ancients' on the franchise now, and maybe that's created a harmonious discord for you, but for me this just feels like a bigger change than usual between the games. Which is exactly what I wanted for a new trilogy if there was going to be one at all - before 343i came into existence I was of the firm opinion that [i]Halo 3[/i] should be it. Bungie had done all I wanted them to do. That opinion was reinforced after Reach.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/25/2012 4:55:44 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog[/quote]That's what happens when someone is as generally unfriendly as you are, you'll be met with equal unfriendlyness. What was the point of provoking me, by responding in such a hostile way, trying to insult me? A week ago we were getting along just fine (what I thought anyway), but no, it's in your nature or something. If you believe in opinions so much, why do you rage when you see something you don't agree with? Remember, you were the one who challenged my opinion of what I believe is [i]Halo purism[/i]. If you don't take it seriously, just ignore it. That's what I'll do in the future; ignore.
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    chubbz

    chubbz

    11/25/2012 4:12:54 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] terroboy Halsey served those uppity S-IV's something serious. I'm really hating Palmer something serious now. The novelty of her character has worn off now that she's coincidentally pitted against someone I actually know would verbally tear her apart.[/quote] Oh yeah. The look on her face when that S-IV said that bit about 'asking for the best' was priceless. And I've hated Palmer since day one. She's a cliched, Michelle Rodriguez-esque 'RAWR IM ROUGH AND TUMBLE' girl with nothing to say/do other than throw around childish barbs. And I don't want to hear 'But she's a strong female character!'. No. Miranda was a strong female character. Halsey is a strong female character. Palmer is an annoying beeotch that needs to go, the sooner the better. Here's hoping she gets killed in Halo 5 or 6.
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    Wolvers

    Wolvers

    11/25/2012 3:48:35 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Do you remember how you felt when you watched Halo's announcement video? What you thought when you played CE back in 2001-2002?[/quote] I didn't play Halo until 2008. I won't read the rest of your rant because I think it's overwhelming arrogance to presume you can define what an experience is to someone, as if your opinion alone is the only one which holds validity. So I think I'll make a sandwich instead. And it is just a game.
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    Rabid Grunt 3
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    wcd45

    wcd45

    11/25/2012 2:03:17 PM Permalink
    I thought it was great - loved Halsey's dig at the Spartan IVs and the really ramped up the action.
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    Citrus raptor

    Citrus raptor

    11/25/2012 12:35:09 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog[/quote]With that post you've only proven the following: that you have the memory of a goldfish; by completely disregarding my previous posts which define my view on the subject, and that you're an opportunist; by deliberately looking past intent and attempting to take advantage of what a singular post by itself could imply. Worst of all however--on your behalf that is--you've proven that you in fact don't see the distinct differences between Bungie Halo and 343i [i]Halo[/i], and by extension; that you're incapable of identifying Halo's core ideals - what makes it what it is and not something else. But first, let me ask you these seemingly unrelated set of questions: Do you remember how you felt when you watched Halo's announcement video? What you thought when you played CE back in 2001-2002? What theories you started to form when Halo 2 came into the picture, and how they evolved when Adjutant Reflex started posting, Iris was reveal, and Halo 3 was released? How TGoO factored into what could happen if Halo got an opportunity to continue towards its foreshadowed apex? What it felt to see all of that undone? Those were all rhetorical questions... (you attempt scorn - I attempt scorn). [b]Between Bungie era and 343i era there is a clear cut, a clear detachment of ideals,[/b] not at all like the gradual [i]refinement[/i] as seen between Bungie's games. 343i's producers, writers, designers, basically the entire studio threw out everything. Everything had to be twisted into a style that they were comfortable with. Who could blame them really, who'd want to spend years with someone elses style? They did not think [i]what can we do with this specific IP that is what it is because of specific rules and balances, how should we do in order to continue with it; with the same values, ideology, with what it considers virtue and vice[/i]? No, they went in thinking [i]how have I always wanted Halo to be[/i]? [b]Do not mistake [i]Quality[/i] for [i]Identity[/i], are not exactly the same.[/b] I have nothing against 343i continuing Bungie's tradition of gradually [i]improving[/i] and adding new gameplay elements, I've never even used that as a complaint against them. [b]The only thing that matters is whether or not it resonates with the already established ideals. [/b]That's why one continues with the same series right? Ex: they chose to add sprint as a default setting, [i]in your face aliens[/i], and QTEs. You can be the judge of their quality yourself. Again - refine vs redefine. [b]Now, what is it that defines Halo; what makes it different/special/have its own identity?[/b] For the thousandth time, here are some of the core attributes, explained through showing how 343i broke the rules: [b]Design:[/b] Halo has become overworked, exaggerated, over styled. The [i]more is more[/i] mentality has been applied. 343i have some sort of belief that the more fidelity one is capable of having, the more one should. A board with the resolution one hundred times one hundred must have complexity throughout; no space is to be given; if one can add a detail, one should, even to the point where the economy for other resource demanding elements are sacrificed. A.I, physics, size, and a sense of even visuals, sandbox possibilities, all take the backseat. Surface graphics are our only technical concern, they seem to say. The complexity of everything is overdone. Subtlety, a once prominent--vital--theme, is now gone. [b]Premise:[/b] Is Halo just another mid-sci-fi-space-opera, doesn't it have anything that defines what and how people experience it; doesn't it have element/filters/restrictions that help skew and tailor a certain type of experience? Of course it has. One of the things that allows a player to feel what they did in CE, 2, and 3, was the state of the galaxy; the premise. [b]The premise of learning about the Forerunners through indirect exposure[/b] was what warranted its start in the narrative, what made it more than just [i]aliens vs marines[/i] (no matter how well taught it might have been). 343i haven't been thorough enough when identifying what the franchise they were going to work with was capable of offering, what layers they could take advantage of in order to continue building what Halo had going, opposed to just making a new trilogy with a clear start. The premise allowed for a specific experience/feeling, not just an opportunity to come up with random sci-fi stuff. Why work with [i]Halo[/i] if one disregards the subtle details that defined it? [b]There is a huge difference between [i]mysteries[/i] and [i]questions[/i].[/b] [b]Story:[/b] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=75742605&postRepeater1-p=1#75743387]Halo 4 is filler with exhibition[/url]. Not exactly the most impressive/skillful way of telling a story and expanding the lore. [i]Let's have the story in one room, and exhibition in the other (Terminals and CGI cutscenes).[/i] Bla, bla, bla, there were unanswered questions, of course there were, and of course you want to know them. That's the point with magic. To quote Michael Caine: [i]"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled."[/i] Direct exhibition--no matter how well it's told--is the least skilled way to reveal something. Halo should be above such banal ways of storytelling. No offense Bear, your writing and stories are great, it wasn't your choice to fully unveil the Forerunners. The Elites were dumbed down; turned into an [i]obligatory[/i] enemy. Yawn. The ONI has turned into Cerberus interdimensional pen-pal. Yawn. Humanity and the UNSC have been retconned in order to be able to spew out cool tech. Disregarding the state Bungie left humanity in (in a kind of humbled way). Yawn. And Dr. Halsey has been unnecessary involved in a pathetic attempt to turn Halo into a grim, realistic, deep character portrayal. Poor Catherine, had you been less interesting, maybe you'd have been left alone. ... Why has it ventured this way? What could possibly have warranted this direction? [b]Gameplay:[/b] Bungie makes games that they want to play i.e, they made Halo, and with it aimed towards creating a [i]sandbox[/i] experience. Dynamicity was king! [b]Do not fool yourself with the thought that Halo is a universe which one can slap onto any type of shooter whatsoever[/b], it has just as much of a meta identity as it has an identity. Removing it, dilutes its overall indentity. Halo 3, in its attempt to be the most dynamic of all the sandbox shooters, ended up having some of the most frustrating encounters I've ever experienced. Frustrating, but at the same time immensely satisfying when everything fell in its place. [i]Physical[/i] objects everywhere, an abundance of explosive weapons, unruly marines, and just too much one has no control over whatsoever, it was a chaos, a spectacular chaos that very often surprised, lived a life of its own. It truly was a sandbox full of naughty kids. Much of this carried over to the multiplayer, which spawned an era and style of videos. The amount of things Halo 3 attempted was indeed admirable. When I think of more Halo as a game, that's what I think of. Not just a random stiff shooter set in the Haloverse. CE started, 2 improved, 3 added and improved, but did not improve enough to remove frustration. Reach gave up, and Halo 4 dumbed down, 343i had other ideals (graphics for instance). In an attempt to be as [i]balanced[/i] as possible, all [i]fun[/i] has disappeared. I.e, they're taking the easy way out. Creating mysteries in not only done through the story--this is primarily a game franchise after all--it's also done by creating a mysterious and awing atmosphere, that excites on a moment to moment basis just by being there and explorable. Environments should be buildt with the intent to entice the player into venturing around just because of how the environment are buildt, not because of the promise to receive achievement points or find cool CGI. [b]Overall flair and sense of style:[/b] It really becomes apparent how little taste 343i have; how lost they are on the subject of stylization, iconography, a collected visual flair. [b]Example:[/b] Gone is the sense of featuring only what is sufficiently well made, and present are the badass Power Rangers. Gone is the sense of accomplishment, and present is the cascade of... [url=http://addicted-gamers.com/2012/11/11/halo-4-xbox-360-review-a-shadow-of-its-former-self/]This review pinpoints it better than I[/url], just scroll down to the multiplayer part. It's truly numbing how much they throw in ones face. They just don't know when and where to stop. It's not a neat little package anymore, it's a huge loosely tied bundle. [b]Tone, script, narrative:[/b] It's gone from [i]high-key Hollywood action-adventure blockbuster cheese with well-paced humour and one-liners[/i], to a [i]Travissian soap opera that takes itself way to seriously[/i]. When was Halo ever a grim and gritty alternative universe in which every second was worthy of depiction? [b]Don't wear it out[/b], don't make it mundane! [quote]Why this kind of is OT:[/quote] [b]Presentation:[/b] Why I brought it up here, in a thread about Spartan Ops: Halo as a franchise has become a schizophrenic pile of media with a low threshold on the quality; what is acceptable to present Halo in. Read my previous posts in this thread for more clarity. [b]But whatever right, you like it more now[/b]... and, [i]it's just a game[/i]... [Edited on 11.25.2012 5:11 AM PST]
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    anton1792

    anton1792

    11/23/2012 8:29:45 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xi43 I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.[/quote] I know. However it was done to make a point that Halo 2's "subversions" are relevant to the here and now.
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    xi43

    xi43

    11/23/2012 7:55:09 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] anton1792 Your hands must be getting sore from scraping that barrel of yours. You haven't considered the issue of what it was that even defined Halo so soon it's life. It's a pretty big consideration and makes the current situation in no way comparable to the situation that we have now. Even back then, the point could be raised that these morons who wrote Halo2sucks.com committed the mistake of thinking that they knew the creators minds better than the creators did themselves, even before they had finished the damn foundational story. Unlike now however as 343i are not the creators, and the foundations have already been well laid and have been that way for half a decade. Comparing 1 game and 3 books to 6 games and god knows how much ancillary material; 3 years to 11 years of franchise life time? All those issues you raised fail on account that they could not have been aspects of the series, because it wasn't as series back then; the story wasn't even complete and defined by the creators themselves. It is also under the assumption that these things were intended and then altered intentionally or not, which is also false and I can probably dig up ancient sources to prove it. If they had an extra year on CE, the Covenant story from Halo 2 would have been started off in CE right off the bat. So don't be absurd and say that they changed Halo all the way back then. You didn't even know what it was supposed to look like back then; could not have known.[/quote] I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
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    anton1792

    anton1792

    11/23/2012 7:49:22 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II This post is full of win and truth.[/quote] Especially the part where it explains and justifies the basis for its knowledge on what to judge as Halo. Oh wait, it doesn't have a reasonable basis. My bad!
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    hotshot revan II

    hotshot revan II

    11/23/2012 7:42:31 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka Do you honestly believe that Halo hasn't changed?[/quote] Yes, it's no longer the [i]Halo[/i] I loved. Shields used to just serve as an auxiliary defence to your main health, now they've taken health packs out and left us only with shields. Also, they've introduced 'duel-wielding' - not only does this ruin the perfectly balanced sandbox of the Halo I adored, but it also means that weapons which were once powerful have been nerfed; the plasma rifle doesn't hold a freezing effect anymore, for example, and the plasma pistol is next to useless. Taking out the assault rifle has robbed the game of one of its most iconic symbols, and there is no longer a human weapon for short-mid range combat, with the SMG being ineffectual at medium distances and the BR unwieldy in close combat. All these additions are nothing compared to the crime that the new game has committed on the pistol - it used to be a skillful weapon of death, with which a talented player could dominate with. Now it's even worse than the plasma pistol. Vehicular balance has been completely ruined by the addition of hi-jacking (all it takes to destroy a tank now is someone getting close enough to it, especially with the Wraith's lack of a turret) and homing rockets. With the addition of Havok, the physics of the series have been completely changed and this has ruined the flow of Halo for me. That's not even mentioning the campaign, which is a horrific departure from the [i]Halo[/i] I considered a pure and perfect experience. First of all, I don't know what the developers were thinking by adding exposition to the Covenant - they worked perfectly well as a faceless enemy, it added to their menace as we knew little of their motivations - now with the inclusion of another campaign from their perspective, that menace is gone and we're left without an iconic foe - Brutes come out of nowhere (why are they appearing just now? It's ludicrous), are little more than bullet sponges, and on higher difficulties it's impractical to take them down with anything other than the needler, with it often being a rush to kill it before it berserks. There's too much hopping around from location to location, where the [i]Halo[/i] I once loved made its impression through developing one locale, a mysterious alien world - it was fleshed out beautifully, whereas now we're jumping all over the place. Master Chief is given very little attention and we spend much of the campaign with a character who shouldn't even exist - Elites should have remained just as the name connotes; an elite enemy class who serve as our foe and speak in an alien language. Bungie have ruined their franchise with Halo 2, and as a self-entitled Halo purist I decry everything they're doing with the game. I will, however, continue to play everything they put out and will enter every thread about the franchise I see on a message board, because I have issues with letting things go. Hopefully Microsoft will kick Bungie off before they ruin the franchise, and will find a new developer for Halo 3 who will bring the game back to its perfect roots.[/quote] This post is full of win and truth.
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