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11/7/2012 12:51:27 PM
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Forerunners in Halo 4 (spoilers)
After playing Halo 4, did the Forerunners come off as weak to anyone else? Cortana is considered an advanced/evolved Ancilla by the Didact, which implies that Forerunner Ancilla aren't that different from Cortana. A single nuke can completely destroy Didact's ship. Forerunner weapons didn't seem all that strong. Didact was much shorter than 15 feet. A single shot from a Mammoth rail gun can destroy massive Forerunner structures.
I am not complaining, the campaign was great, but the Forerunners seemed weak after the Forerunner trilogy hyped them up.
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Which furthers my point on them acting different with forerunner usage.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 3.Gameplay. In cryptum the weapons change according to what is using them as a safe guard. The weapon descriptions themselves state what they forerunners used them as. Such as the Light rifle being a sniper and from the terminals the Boltshot was like the DMR (hence it having a laser sight which snipers wouldn't) and so on.[/quote]You know, I don't know why the Binary Rifle (campaign) doesn't have that charging mode like Crawler Snipe/Knight Lancers do. Though redundant, it'd have added some versatility.
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Halo 4 made me cry, in a good way literally...nuff said.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 After playing Halo 4, did the Forerunners come off as weak to anyone else? Cortana is considered an advanced/evolved Ancilla by the Didact, which implies that Forerunner Ancilla aren't that different from Cortana. A single nuke can completely destroy Didact's ship. Forerunner weapons didn't seem all that strong. Didact was much shorter than 15 feet. A single shot from a Mammoth rail gun can destroy massive Forerunner structures. I am not complaining, the campaign was great, but the Forerunners seemed weak after the Forerunner trilogy hyped them up. [/quote] 1. Ancilla itself is latin for "slave woman" or close to it. Were the forerunner AI's friends to the forerunners or tools? They were limited whereas cortana isn't held back. 2.It was from the inside which you know would make the blast stronger. We see a blast from inside the keyship blowing a hole in it in Uprising. 3.Gameplay. In cryptum the weapons change according to what is using them as a safe guard. The weapon descriptions themselves state what they forerunners used them as. Such as the Light rifle being a sniper and from the terminals the Boltshot was like the DMR (hence it having a laser sight which snipers wouldn't) and so on. The terminals show them in a completely different light so look at that. 4. Gameplay in which the heights (while far better) are still limited. FRom now on we are going off the CGI shots in regards to all of that stuff. 5. I honestly didn't see anything wrong with that.
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I completely forgot I made this thread. :/
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If the Forerunners were their hyped power level, they would absolutely fraking annihilate Chief and the rest of humanity and that is not the game you paid to play. Games are all about enjoying yourself and if you had no chance of winning against the computer, why play at all? And so, everything is based around the game balance and not the lore. Except for your Didact bit. He's always been four meters tall.
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I remember the Didact saying "advanced ancilla" rather derisively, as if to scoff at the notion that Cortana was advanced. Which makes sense. She goes rampant after 7 years like every other "advanced" human AI, but some of the AIs by the Forerunners, 343 GS, can last hundreds of thousands of years in isolation without ever entering rampancy. And there were thousands of monitors like 343, but only a select few chosen for the Halos. I'm going to say that the Didact refers to Cortana being an advanced Ai as sarcasm.
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She says she can't [i]fight[/i] the Didact and herself simultaneously, not confine.
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I was playing the last level on legendary last night, got stuck at a hard spot. Over and over I retried, and every time I restarted, a rampant malfunctioning cortana would let out an outburst. I was getting annoyed with it, but then after a few tries, I caught her saying the words didact and simultaneously. So I jumped off a ledge. 3 ledge jumps later, I realized that she said "Confine Didact and myself simultaneously." then she says shes opening another portal. I heard this another 5 times, and I'm certain that's what she was saying. I believe she has her rampant self locked away somewhere with the Didact. Possibly starting with the slipspace rupture? She could have been referring to holding him down at the end so masterchief could do his grenade run, but I doubt it. Combining this with Halsey logs, the "evolved ancilla" talk, and a bunch of other stuff, I believe shes out there somewhere. Just...rampant.. I also think she will be the new librarian by the end of 6, and Master chief will have taken Didact's position...with Arbiter and his homies sharing the mantle, on the great journey that they always wanted... Sorry for the wall of text, and the phoenix down I just used on this thread... And apologies if I put this in the wrong spot. I just read a few things about the slipspace rupture and the quote didn't make it.. Upon reading the post below me, I realize that this theory has gone out the window. [Edited on 01.03.2013 6:03 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PISTOLSQUIRREL I loved the game, but I too was wondering why everything seemed a little weaker for an 'enlightened' race. Didact is too small also.[/quote] Aside from gameplay balance, there's also the fact that we still haven't seen the Forerunners themselves in their full strength, just their descendant machines and some of their creations. The Forerunners of the past are dead, they've regressed to become weaker.
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I loved the game, but I too was wondering why everything seemed a little weaker for an 'enlightened' race. Didact is too small also.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Seig Akai Well, either way, 343 had best correct the story here with the Didact and Librarian (which I felt was a slap in the face by her only appearing for a matter of moments) before I stand out in front of their office and snap the disk in half. Won't do much but it will make me feel better. Through the Lore of the original Trilogy as well as all of the books, most importantly the ones written by Greg Bear, the Didact seen in this game is obviously not Bornsteller. The Prometheans met in the game are entirely left field but I enjoyed their presence to an extent. The 'Didact', however, did not seem as powerful as he should have been. This race once spanned the galaxy and held phenomenal technology. Compared to their technology from the lore/books, coupled with what we've seen, and their ability to combat mankind in their own timeline.. I wouldn't say that Mankind caught up in any respect. If you recall, guilty Spark (Chakas) refers to John's armor in Halo 1 as being inferior on multiple tiers which left John in disbelief. I enjoyed the game it was good to see many of the references from the story stand out, but the ending as well as the Didacts appearance coupled with the Librarian....it just left a sour taste in my mouth. It's like they wanted to cram too much drama and not enough accuracy into the game which has had one of the shortest campaigns I have played in the Halo Series for a while. There was quite a bit of content but.. it just didn't feel right. They don't know quite have that edge that the original trilogy did with John. I'm birdwalking here. there is an obvious gap in technology between Humanity and the Forerunners, even moreso with the Precursors. There is endless lore and depth that they can explore and branch from and regardless of if I enjoyed the game they need to -stick to the damn roots.- Bornsteller had best make an appearance. The Librarian needs a more involved role, and dammit it wouldn't hurt for John to be reunited with Fred, Kelly, and Linda...but that's just a dream of mine. [/quote] Now, I don't know why you folks can't put the pieces together. Didact was the one who fired the rings in the terminals and lore, and since the Ur-Didact in halo 4, the original Didact, was a douche, that leaves Bornstellar as the one who fired the rings. Anywho, I pretty much agree with your whole post on that.
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A single nuke, I think anywhere would cause a lot of damage. Detonating it inside the Forerunner ship, in a strategic place where it would cause the most damage, I do not find it unreasonable that it could destroy a forerunner ship. For comparison, an individual with stone hammer on the outside of a tank couldn't do much damage (if at all), but once you place that individual in a strategic position (say inside) and he could do a lot more damage. Forerunner weapons didn't seem "strong" I should think, for no reason other than to maintain game-design balance and not because they felt that the forerunner weapons were in any way "weak." That said, it could still be argued that they were still "advanced" in form and function. I also think it may be prudent to look at the whole legacy of the forerunners and what they have done; even in this game, what the Didact was almost able to do in a couple of days what took the entire covenant collection was unable to do for years. [Edited on 11.13.2012 11:42 AM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.[/quote] I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of [i]Halo 4[/i]; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy. People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember [i]Reach[/i]? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the [i]Autumn[/i] is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply. Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.[/quote] Or maybe Cortana is actually dead, rather than pulling a fairly obvious plot twist and have survive by sheltering in Didact's armour. The debate on whether or not she survived is for another thread, but until it is proven otherwise, there is no proof that Cortana survived, only speculation. Where was it stated that Cortana is half Forerunner? I remember the generally consensus being that Cortana was merely studying the installation. Studying it would hardly make Cortana half-Ancilla.[/quote]She used Foreruner code to improve hersefl.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.[/quote] I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of [i]Halo 4[/i]; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy. People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember [i]Reach[/i]? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the [i]Autumn[/i] is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply. Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.[/quote] Or maybe Cortana is actually dead, rather than pulling a fairly obvious plot twist and have survive by sheltering in Didact's armour. The debate on whether or not she survived is for another thread, but until it is proven otherwise, there is no proof that Cortana survived, only speculation. Where was it stated that Cortana is half Forerunner? I remember the generally consensus being that Cortana was merely studying the installation. Studying it would hardly make Cortana half-Ancilla.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.[/quote] I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of [i]Halo 4[/i]; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy. People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember [i]Reach[/i]? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the [i]Autumn[/i] is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply. Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.[/quote] I agree. This is what I had in mind. Although, someone mentioned that Halo 5 was supposed to be the darkest Halo yet so when Cortana returns, which side will she be in? Gravemind almost turned her. Could the Didact?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality.[/quote] I'm pretty sure by 'evolved' he was foreshadowing what will be Cortana's metastability - she didn't die at the end of [i]Halo 4[/i]; as Halsey theorised, she'll have found a way to exist in slipspace (having entered with the Didact's armour) and overcome her rampancy. People also seem to be forgetting that she's effectively half ancilla; remember [i]Reach[/i]? That fragment of Cortana you're delivering to the [i]Autumn[/i] is Forerunner. Normal rules don't apply. Cortana will be back, and she'll be better than ever.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sealskie I think the Forerunners seemed weaker for two reasons. For one, humanity did catch up a little bit. That is a factor. But, also, gameplay. 343i did say they would sacrifice a little bit of canon for gameplay. Well, I think the Forerunners being a bit water-downed is an affect of that. Which, is understandable. If the Forerunners were portrayed fully as what they're chalked up to be...There wouldn't be a game. They would just obliterate the UNSC. So, I think that is the reason.[/quote] But the only Forerunner you fight is the Didact, the Prometheans are all combat forms of ancient humans anyways.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 The nuke was a HAVOK missile, IIRC, which existed long before Halo 4 and was not enhanced by recent technological breakthroughs..[/quote] True, it was older tech but it's still a nuke. And it works the same way that it does on Covenant ships, if you plant a nuke inside a shielded craft the explosion keeps expanding inside of the shields until it runs out of available gasses (like oxygen) and fuels (like the gas stored for the plasma reactors for the flame).
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Didn't Guilty Spark say that chief only had a class 2 combat skin, and that he should've brought a Class 12 combat skin against the Flood? I guess gameplay trumps story. Why does the Didact have levitating powers?
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I think the Forerunners seemed weaker for two reasons. For one, humanity did catch up a little bit. That is a factor. But, also, gameplay. 343i did say they would sacrifice a little bit of canon for gameplay. Well, I think the Forerunners being a bit water-downed is an affect of that. Which, is understandable. If the Forerunners were portrayed fully as what they're chalked up to be...There wouldn't be a game. They would just obliterate the UNSC. So, I think that is the reason.
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I agree, plus the games balanced around Heroic, as far as I'm aware anyway. However, I still believe the Prometheans should have been stronger, a few of my buddies and I started going through the missions on Legendary and simply plowed through them. In total there were three of us, and we only had a total of one or two deaths per level. If I said this happened in Reach, people would laugh, with this game though, it's believable. The enemies are simply laughable... On a separate note, not necessarily pointed at you, I'm not totally convinced that the Didact is dead. If you watch the credits, at the end there's a cut scene with him talking about being defeated, but wanting to come back for revenge. I don't know about you guys, but that doesn't sound very dead to me...
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I agree he was kinda weak there supposed to be like gods.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mcmhockey92 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ninjakenzen I for one, preferred it when the forerunners where faceless and mysterious. Now in my mind I keep seeing a hybrid of a Human/San 'Shyuum [Prophets] lovechild with a new kind of Mass Effect mixed with Halo Wars kind of atmosphere. The Didact was disappointing and the Forerunner tech was underwhelming on a galactic scale [lol]. Halo 4 isn't a bad game. It's just overrated in many areas. For a change in direction. It could have been worse I guess. I'm just to a large extent disappointed with the followthrough. I've never been so bored/meh at playing a campaign level with forerunners as the focal point of interest. There was no motivation whatsoever, no intrigue or curiosity. Just more of the same forerunner architecture, on a larger scale and don't forget the portals![/quote] THANK YOU for writing this. You've expressed exactly what I've been feeling. I've been telling my friends about my dislike of this shift from mysterious forerunner to mass-effect-esque forerunner. Halo isn't ruined for me yet, but I'm certainly worried about the direction this series is heading...we'll see[/quote] You guys need to understand that what you're seeing of the Forerunners is from a balanced gameplay perspective. If Forerunners were made to be as powerful as they are in the books, none of us would make it past the first level. And in reply to earlier things: 1. The Didacts ship IS a warship. Look at the terminals. In addition, it is a far cry from a "weak ship". It survived MAC bombardment from Earth's orbital defenses AND home fleet battle group. 2. The weapon used by the Infinity to punch a hole in Didact's ship was not a "super-mac". It was a 100% Forerunner energy weapon. Most likely introduced by the engineers taken from Onyx. (The Forerunner energy weapons ARE on the Infinity. It was mentioned in either Glasslands or Thursday War). 3. And the red "pool" that the Didact fell into was a Slipspace Rupture. Cortana confirmed so in her dialogue. The Prometheans are weak because they have to be, otherwise, gameplay would be horribly broken. If you'd like a more accurate depiction of Forerunner military prowess, I suggest you play the entire campaign on Legendary without dying once. Then you'll realize that Prometheans may be more powerful than you think.
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I just reread the [url=http://blog.ascendantjustice.com/halo-3/the-terminals/]Halo 3 Terminals[/url] to see what had been answered by Halo 4. It's an interesting juxtaposition. I recommend everyone to reread them in this new light. [Edited on 11.08.2012 1:45 PM PST]
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Cortana is evolved in the sense that she's more sentient than Forerunner Ancillas, who, while more effective, may have lacked personality. The nuke destroyed the Composer mid-fire, destroying the ship. Forerunner weapons are designed for balance.
