[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa (Daefaron, I think you have that list of UNSC war assets on Reach don't you? Would you mind posting that if you can?) [/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=intel&cid=27032]Here you go.[/url][/quote] Yet, when the Covenant were attacking Reach in the game, none of that existed. People can't say that many ships were [i]off station[/i].

I don't accept it as canon because it -blam!-s on so many other games canon. It makes far more sense to just ignore that one game, than to try and find reasons for all the -blam!- that Reach created. Plus I hate the game.... so yeah

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa (Daefaron, I think you have that list of UNSC war assets on Reach don't you? Would you mind posting that if you can?) [/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=intel&cid=27032]Here you go.[/url]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XB Fighter Thats me. Halo: Reach is just a spinoff of the series IMO. It [i]never[/i] happened.[/quote] You're free to think whatever you want, but as long as you acknowledge that Reach really is canon, it doesn't matter if you choose to ignore it or not. So yeah, think whatever you want, but be willing to acknowledge what is really the case, even if you choose to ignore it. I personally see no contradictions that ruin anything at all, and to be quite honest, I always hated TFoR...I felt its depiction of the Battle of Reach sucked big hairy Brute balls. Like me for instance, I know and acknowledge that Glasslands (the one addition to the Halo lore that I hate) is canon and will freely admit that to whoever asks or brings Glasslands up. Doesn't stop me from ignoring Traviss spin on things and constructing my own version of the book more in line with what Bungie had set up at the end of Halo 3 and everything they'd been doing after Halo 2 or more in line with what Nylund had portrayed his character like.[/quote] Yes, but I do count all the books at canon. Halo Wars and Halo Reach, those are the two things that I dislike. I don't hate it as much anymore, but introducing the flood in it was a mistake. I was mad at first, because if the UNSC knew about the flood before the Chief found it, it wouldve messed the canon up. Then I learned that the Spirit of Fire was never seen after it escaped, and it never made it home. So, that fixed the problem, the UNSC never knew about the Flood after all. As for Halo Reach..... I've been over this a thousand times, so I'll just say it. Reach is a disgrace to the entire series of games, not just the books. It didn't just break book canon, it broke CE's canon and Halo 3's canon. If they wanted it to be better, they should've kept the Pillar of Autumn, Cortana, and Halsey OUT. Bringing them into the game was a mistake. Halo Reach was a mistake.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XB Fighter Thats me. Halo: Reach is just a spinoff of the series IMO. It [i]never[/i] happened.[/quote] You're free to think whatever you want, but as long as you acknowledge that Reach really is canon, it doesn't matter if you choose to ignore it or not. So yeah, think whatever you want, but be willing to acknowledge what is really the case, even if you choose to ignore it. I personally see no contradictions that ruin anything at all, and to be quite honest, I always hated TFoR...I felt its depiction of the Battle of Reach sucked big hairy Brute balls. Like me for instance, I know and acknowledge that Glasslands (the one addition to the Halo lore that I hate) is canon and will freely admit that to whoever asks or brings Glasslands up. Doesn't stop me from ignoring Traviss spin on things and constructing my own version of the book more in line with what Bungie had set up at the end of Halo 3 and everything they'd been doing after Halo 2 or more in line with what Nylund had portrayed his character like. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coink13 book>game becuase book was first and better and made sense[/quote] Um...no. Halo is and always will be a [i]game[/i] series. The games are the highest authority on canon. If one of the games contradicts one of the books, then the game is right and the book is wrong. The original medium and anything said by the creators or current owners of the series (Bungie and now 343i) will [i]always[/i] be the highest authority in a series. Now that doesn't mean that any spin-off material is non-canon, it just means that its authority is lesser than what is created by the owners. Like in the military for example, the Lieutenant has plenty of authority, but anything he orders is superseded by an officer with higher command. And TFoR's depiction of the Battle of Reach was most definitely [i][b][u]not[/u][/b][/i] better made, it was a complete farce. The UNSC looked like a whole bunch of incompetent and bumbling fools who could never ever do anything right, and the Covenant were made to look a bunch of all powerful, god-mode, invincible Mary-Sues. The events of the book didn't make any kind of sense at all. I mean, come on, really? The Covenant instantly know where every single important location the UNSC has on Reach is the minute they arrive in system, and then despite more than half of their dropships getting destroyed (only hundreds made it through the UNSC fleet and the SMACs and other ODPs), they instantaneously overrun the ground defenses the second they reach the poles? And the UNSC didn't marshal any ground or airforces at all? Despite having thousands (Daefaron, I think you have that list of UNSC war assets on Reach don't you? Would you mind posting that if you can?) of them all? And this isn't a time of peace, the UNSC has been at war for 25+ years by this point, it's not the same as a blitzkrieg attack in the middle of a peaceful time when the army would not be in any state of readiness. Anyways, the UNSC has been at war for almost a quarter of a century by this point, and the Covenant could stumble across any planet any day, each and every planet would have all of its forces ready to be mobilized at a moments notice. And Reach most of all as it is the heart and military hub-world of the UNSC. Things like the ODP generators would not have ludicrously weak defenses, even in a time of peace, they're some of the most, if not the most, important locations on the planet. They would have bunkers, troops, turrets, armor divisions, anti-air groups, aerial forces and defenses...the generator complex would not be something that'd be completely overrun in less than an hour. Much less the rest of the locations the Covenant attacked. And this completely ignoring the game, by the way. Now, however, if you factor the game into all this, the fact that the Covenant could overrun everything is a fairly short time makes a lot more sense, they would probably already have forces in these areas attacking them already, or at the very least knowing their locations. Having the game makes the events in TFoR and First Strike make infinitely more sense, just as the book makes thing in the game make more sense as well...they're two parts of the same thing, two different sides to the same coin, half of the same whole, yin to the other's yang. They balance each other out, neither one makes as much sense on its own, though TFoR makes much less sense by itself than Reach does. In any case, they're meant to complete the other, neither is supposed to exist on its own. [Edited on 08.03.2012 9:21 AM PDT]

Thats me. Halo: Reach is just a spinoff of the series IMO. It [i]never[/i] happened.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] coink13 book>game becuase book was first and better and made sense[/quote] Too bad this is a GAME franchise.

Only an idiot would try, as feeble an attempt it would be, to pass off Reach's story as non-canon. It is canon, there is no changing that. Noble Team has already been mentioned several times in Glasslands. What is done is done.

Honestley I enjoy both your posts....... Thus I say, "Can't we all just get allong."

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazyHUNTER 95 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 What could you possibly do to me? it is completely obvious you have been using it as a source and your recent posts are the ones i was talking about.[/quote] [u]I was saying check yourself so you don't sound as dickish as you really are[/u] and if you took it as a threat then i'm sorry you feel threatened. How is it obvious that I use halopedia if I was wrong about the shielding in my post before? I'm pretty sure i'd be smart enough to double check if I was actually using halopedia. Based off of the other threads I've seen you post in, you like to intentionally piss people off, so if you want to argue with me anymore PM me. Otherwise i'm done having a personal dispute on OP's thread. [/quote] That makes no sense and no i don't fee "threatened" by you. If i wanted to "intentionally piss people off" i am sure name calling would be involved.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 What could you possibly do to me? it is completely obvious you have been using it as a source and your recent posts are the ones i was talking about.[/quote] I was saying check yourself so you don't sound as dickish as you really are and if you took it as a threat then i'm sorry you feel threatened. How is it obvious that I use halopedia if I was wrong about the shielding in my post before? I'm pretty sure i'd be smart enough to double check if I was actually using halopedia. Based off of the other threads I've seen you post in, you like to intentionally piss people off, so if you want to argue with me anymore PM me. Otherwise i'm done having a personal dispute on OP's thread.

Thats not intersting. The private cam 6 has is tho. Him and Jun sneek chewing gum into chiefs H:2 helmet. Masterguns was PISSED!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] E Sword of LORD Grey side with me! No source offers proof to the contrary. Besides with time traveling and a smart mouth no chance is available for my loss in this.[/quote] It would be interesting to see how the crystal messed with the events.

Grey side with me! No source offers proof to the contrary. Besides with time traveling and a smart mouth no chance is available for my loss in this.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazyHUNTER 95 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 It isn't that he knows his stuff (which he does) it is just that you are using halopedian as a source which is obviously not working for you. [/quote] Normally I don't have an issue with people on the forums, but in the few threads where you and I have both posted in you've been a complete douche. I'm not going to ruin this guys thread arguing with you, but i'm just letting you know. [b]Check yourself[/b]. Halopedia looks like it has most of it's stuff right and you act like I've been using it the whole time. I used it for my most recent post. That's it. [/quote] What could you possibly do to me? it is completely obvious you have been using it as a source and your recent posts are the ones i was talking about.

Reach is cannon because I said so. Noble 6 survived reach, went on to join with the ODST group as Rookie, Then went to cryo so he could be there when they fixed time travel then came back in time wrote Halo and laughs histerically because he altered history and stopped the war. Believe me I know. I have to put up with his crap. I love the guy but he can be a whiner sometimes. lol he got banned from b-net for drinking the other day. ehhh... gtg my knee augmentation is actin up again... [Edited on 07.29.2012 7:51 AM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 I'm sure they have some hard rule for canon buried somewhere in an interview or document, but I have yet to see it. They will probably come out with a more official statement if many contradictions start to pop up or they start putting out much more material. As it is, I agree with Coma and Elder (good to see you again, by the way, Coma) that 343i's policy should only affect material produced by 343i. If we apply policies to material made under a different one, things can get confusing. The idea of canon hierarchies always seems a bit odd to me. I don't think one story should be able to overwrite another just because of how it was told. I think that everything should be considered a valid view of the universe, to put one view over another seems like an insult to the authors and artists who slaved over their work only to have it be declared invalid.[/quote] They might, I never heard or saw it though, so if they do have one it's unknown to me. For me personally I still go by Bungie's method of sorting things, if it's newer material or something straight from horse's mouth so to speak (IE something Bungie directly created, like the games, or one of Bungie's story writers for the games wrote, like Contact Harvest) then it's the highest authority around. (Yeah good to see you too, how come you don't really come by Archive anymore?) Well I don't see it as a constant really, it's more a guideline for if you find a contradiction anywhere. When there are no contradictions I view them as equal...though I always trust something straight from the creators more than something that's not. The further you get from the source of it, it's going to get a bit murkier and muddled. I never saw it though where anything beneath the game was automatically lesser or something like that. Unless I find contradictions, then they're all valid and as equal as anything can be.[/quote] I too would take the [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod]word of Bungie/343i[/url] over other sources. The second paragraph is 40k rubbing off on me. They play fast and loose with the idea of canon, and the second paragraph is a paraphrase of their canon policy. 40k is also the reason I have drifted from the Archive; I have lost the interest I've once had.

It was hard, but then I read Glasslands.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] grey101 It isn't that he knows his stuff (which he does) it is just that you are using halopedian as a source which is obviously not working for you. [/quote] Normally I don't have an issue with people on the forums, but in the few threads where you and I have both posted in you've been a complete douche. I'm not going to ruin this guys thread arguing with you, but i'm just letting you know. Check yourself. Halopedia looks like it has most of it's stuff right and you act like I've been using it the whole time. I used it for my most recent post. That's it. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron The only augmentation not shared between the S2 and S3 programs (in some form) was the thyroid implant. It was what caused the S2's to become much taller then other humans IIRC. As for the box. I'd wager it was his gun. Or something that in general wasn't really needed for the upcoming mission. Who knows.[/quote] Crap. I will find something that you cannot counter!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Xd00999 I'm sure they have some hard rule for canon buried somewhere in an interview or document, but I have yet to see it. They will probably come out with a more official statement if many contradictions start to pop up or they start putting out much more material. As it is, I agree with Coma and Elder (good to see you again, by the way, Coma) that 343i's policy should only affect material produced by 343i. If we apply policies to material made under a different one, things can get confusing. The idea of canon hierarchies always seems a bit odd to me. I don't think one story should be able to overwrite another just because of how it was told. I think that everything should be considered a valid view of the universe, to put one view over another seems like an insult to the authors and artists who slaved over their work only to have it be declared invalid.[/quote] They might, I never heard or saw it though, so if they do have one it's unknown to me. For me personally I still go by Bungie's method of sorting things, if it's newer material or something straight from horse's mouth so to speak (IE something Bungie directly created, like the games, or one of Bungie's story writers for the games wrote, like Contact Harvest) then it's the highest authority around. (Yeah good to see you too, how come you don't really come by Archive anymore?) Well I don't see it as a constant really, it's more a guideline for if you find a contradiction anywhere. When there are no contradictions I view them as equal...though I always trust something straight from the creators more than something that's not. The further you get from the source of it, it's going to get a bit murkier and muddled. I never saw it though where anything beneath the game was automatically lesser or something like that. Unless I find contradictions, then they're all valid and as equal as anything can be.

Ask Bungie. If they say it is canon... it is infact canon whether you like it or not.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Elder Bias [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 Anyways, no there is no schism between whether something is 'more canon' than something else. That died when 343i took over and made all forms of additional media 'equal', thus both TFOR and Halo: Reach are equally canonical sources.[/quote] Source? Based on few sources, it is only happening for future book typing with new trilogy, not old one. Based on few sources, they are still going for old bungie's policy. [/quote] I'm inclined to agree with this statement right here...I don't think whatever 343i's new policy, if they even have one, would apply to works that have already been done and were published when Bungie was running the show. I'm pretty sure that only 343i's works would fall under whatever policy they have...or relations between their new stuff and old stuff.[/quote] Until they officially state it somewhere... we can't say for sure.[/quote] I'm sure they have some hard rule for canon buried somewhere in an interview or document, but I have yet to see it. They will probably come out with a more official statement if many contradictions start to pop up or they start putting out much more material. As it is, I agree with Coma and Elder (good to see you again, by the way, Coma) that 343i's policy should only affect material produced by 343i. If we apply policies to material made under a different one, things can get confusing. The idea of canon hierarchies always seems a bit odd to me. I don't think one story should be able to overwrite another just because of how it was told. I think that everything should be considered a valid view of the universe, to put one view over another seems like an insult to the authors and artists who slaved over their work only to have it be declared invalid. [Edited on 07.28.2012 8:27 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Elder Bias [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 Anyways, no there is no schism between whether something is 'more canon' than something else. That died when 343i took over and made all forms of additional media 'equal', thus both TFOR and Halo: Reach are equally canonical sources.[/quote] Source? Based on few sources, it is only happening for future book typing with new trilogy, not old one. Based on few sources, they are still going for old bungie's policy. [/quote] I'm inclined to agree with this statement right here...I don't think whatever 343i's new policy, if they even have one, would apply to works that have already been done and were published when Bungie was running the show. I'm pretty sure that only 343i's works would fall under whatever policy they have...or relations between their new stuff and old stuff.[/quote] Until they officially state it somewhere... we can't say for sure.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Elder Bias [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 Anyways, no there is no schism between whether something is 'more canon' than something else. That died when 343i took over and made all forms of additional media 'equal', thus both TFOR and Halo: Reach are equally canonical sources.[/quote] Source? Based on few sources, it is only happening for future book typing with new trilogy, not old one. Based on few sources, they are still going for old bungie's policy. [/quote] I'm inclined to agree with this statement right here...I don't think whatever 343i's new policy, if they even have one, would apply to works that have already been done and were published when Bungie was running the show. I'm pretty sure that only 343i's works would fall under whatever policy they have...or relations between their new stuff and old stuff.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 Anyways, no there is no schism between whether something is 'more canon' than something else. That died when 343i took over and made all forms of additional media 'equal', thus both TFOR and Halo: Reach are equally canonical sources.[/quote] Source? Based on few sources, it is only happening for future book typing with new trilogy, not old one. Based on few sources, they are still going for old bungie's policy.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BestSpartan117 reach is canon much more than the novels deal with it[/quote] Would you like to repeat this in a comprehensive form of the wonderful English language? Anyways, no there is no schism between whether something is 'more canon' than something else. That died when 343i took over and made all forms of additional media 'equal', thus both TFOR and Halo: Reach are equally canonical sources.