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#Septagon

6/14/2012 6:57:41 AM
106

Generational Gaps and How They Affect a Community

I've already tried 4 times to start off this thread in a witty way, and I've backspaced all of them. It's just not gonna happen. [u]And, as per usual with BNet threads, you will be absolved of your lack of desire to fully take in all that I'm about to present to you... with a TL;DR at the end.[/u] So we here at BNet must, at this point, especially in the community forum more so than anywhere else, address the fact that there are clearly defined generational divides between members of the community. Whether this results into a community member becoming the punchline to an infinite amount of jokes of one generation, or some members of the younger generation resenting ones of an older one because of their snarky manner and air on the forums, or it doesn't manifest itself directly in the mains at all and is just present as a number on our profile page that some people may use to subconsciously classify and categorize us, it's still there. These generational gaps are something that are, obviously, not just present in this community, but present in all communities. From the old stereotype of the elderly shouting at "yoots" to get off their freshly mown grass, to the dubstep-loving, Buddy Holly glasses wearing, loose beanie adoring, hipster twenty-somethings we hear complained about so much today, generational gaps have always and will always be there and different generations will always look down upon all the others. The teenagers will always think that the twenty-somethings have their -blam!- together and know how life is supposed to be. The twenty-somethings will always have dreams of "When [b][u]we're[/u][/b] in charge, things are going to be different(, man)!". The adults will always see the twenty-somethings as the generation that has everything handed to them on a silver platter and who have yet to experience the harsh, cold, unforgiving real world for what it really is. And the elderly will always look down on the young(er) adults in the way they're letting these twenty-somethings get away with all the mayhem that they're causing. Such is true in society, as well as on Bungie.net, thought not necessarily with the same feelings between the 4, well, really, 5 generations. [quote][/quote] On Bungie.net, there will always be the youngsters. There will always be those new people joining, perhaps having their first experience on an internet forum (this was mine). They will always need guidance from the more experienced users, and they won't always get it. They will always view things in a different light than those even a simple year ahead of them in the "account creation" category, and they will always be criticized by the older members for either their ignorance, or their ways of viewing how the forums should and will (in the future) work. [quote][/quote] There will also, in a perpetual state more certain than infinity, be the regulars. The people who've been here a year, maybe two, and are still posting at least somewhat frequently and, in their opinion, have got this "foruming" thing down-pat. This area of growth, however, does still seem to be fair game for the seasoned veterans to make fun of and ridicule (again either for their views on how the site should be run or what features should be added). Within this category (bans notwithstanding, the heroics), people begin to (if I may romanticize the process of posting fairly unsophisticated and sometimes witty remarks on an internet forum) make their own identity on Bungie.net. They can begin to get recognized (if they haven't been already for their posting habits as a newbie) and they'll have seen repeat threads enough to be able to get their opinion out there and have (at least a few people) become familiar with it and be able to form their own opinion of you based on those views you have. [quote][/quote] Then come the the beginnings of the old garb. The legendaries. The one to three year regulars of Bungie.net who've managed to not get bored of its inevitable repetitiveness as well as (most likely) bury themselves enough in private groups to not have grown immensely bored of the thing (especially in "dark times" such as those we're currently experiencing). This is usually the first generation (as I see it, anyhow) who can manage to have any sort of informal relationship (I.E. being addressed by name as opposed to "OP") with Mythics, employees, ninjas, etc. If they haven't established themselves enough in the community at this point to be viewed as legitimate non-waste of the memory necessary for the system to remember their existence by the veterans, then their title bar has done it for them. And, just as it is uncommon to see a high school junior making fun of freshman more so than sophomores do, the legendaries seem to (in my mind) ease up a bit on the name-calling and direct-calling-out-without-caring-about-whether-or-not-they're-banned that most of them seem to inevitably slip back into around year 4-6. [quote][/quote] Finally, the group that, let's be honest, should be two due to the huge difference between people like Halo53 and someone who made their account on June 14th, 2009 and is just now getting that blue bar, the Mythics. This is the generation where you can become semi-famous (a made up adjective of the highest prestige 'round these parts), or at the very least become a name that someone can look at and recall having existed before "just now". This is the generation Ninjas are pulled from. This is the generation people want to be. This is the generation so cool that they made a group about how cool they were and then had other generations make an inferior group so that they too could pretend to be cool whilst waiting on the roster in Scranton-Wilkes Barre to be called up to NYC. This is also, regrettably, a generation that gets a reputation both simultaneously undeserved to the last complaint thread, and at the same time fully deserved from all those unmistakably present threads in MM about "User X". The word "elitism" is thrown around a lot. Some might argue more than it should. I would agree with "some". I don't think the Mythics get a good rap considering most of them are just snarky and sarcastic because they're looking for a new way to respond to how they feel about a notification system or custom avis, having already done so fifty times previously. But that's just me. [quote][/quote] As promised, there's a TL;DR combined with a question to keep the conversation going: [b]TL;DR: What do you think about the different "generations" here on BNet and how they interact with each other?[/b] [Edited on 06.14.2012 8:20 AM PDT]

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  • I think the oldies are the wise and the more greater community members and they act as maturely as possible. While the younger generation tend to have more of a "questional" way of thinking. They don't get along as well as they should in my opinion.

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  • You old grandpas never have any fun around here!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] damad3 You old grandpas never have any fun around here![/quote]Was that at me? haha. Because despite my making of long threads (something Hero's and "my generation" doesn't do, I'm no old fogy (or Fomy... amirite?). Also, [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ODSTFADE I think the oldies are the wise and the more greater community members and they act as maturely as possible. While the younger generation tend to have more of a "questional" way of thinking. They don't get along as well as they should in my opinion[/quote] While I agree that lots of the "younger generation" may not have quite a grasp on either how things work around here or what's the more appropriate tone to take with your posts and the presentation of the ideas therein, the same can, I think, be said for at least some of the older generation. There's a fine line between sarcasm/snark and just being a dick who isn't fun to talk to that some (unnamed) veterans seem to dance on. Whether they do so expertly, with a result that's fun for all (who "get" it), or obnoxiously and rudely to the point where it makes much of the younger generation upset and only beckons the giggles of a few Mythics (for pity, if anything), is up to them though, of course.

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  • As you said, the generational gaps will always be there. So I don't really see a need to form an opinion on something that is simply unavoidable fact. You can discuss the effect of the generations on the community to death in terms of age-appropriateness, maturity, "elitism," etc. Personally, I think these are issues that are subjective and vary with individuals, not groups. But perhaps it would be more productive to consider the effects of the community on the different generations. Instead of making younger (or older) members feel isolated or unwelcome, we, as a community, could be helping guide them to becoming mature, insightful, respectable members. Just a thought.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MsCadetUNIVERSE But perhaps it would be more productive to consider the effects of the community on the different generations. Instead of making younger (or older) members feel isolated or unwelcome, we, as a community, could be helping guide them to becoming mature, insightful, respectable members. Just a thought.[/quote]The problem is, that for the experienced (or, at least, regular, 2+ year old) community as a whole, making fun of or jokes about the inexperience or mistakes of new members is a much more attractive option than actually helping someone out simply because making jokes about newbies gets you (subconscious) cool points with the regular and older members if you do it in a funny way. I'm not going to act like I'm a perfect example of a nice forumgoer nor an antonymous negative of this jeering, joking user I described. I'm simply saying that while that's the ideal situation, given the nature of the community, I don't think it's going to change any time soon.

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  • You took the time to write it, I toom the time to read it. As you said, there will always be a generational gap between users and that gap is only going to widen with the inevitable passing of time. I don't really see this as a bad thing however. Why? Because I look up to the older members and try to follow their (well most of their) examples and so when I get in their shoes one day as time passes and many of them begin to leave (if they do so that i s) and people like myself begin to fill their places people will look up to us and seek guidance from the elders. Similar things occur in every day life. As for how they act with one another, it is pretty clear that there is hazing occuring to the newer members from the elder ones but things like that can't be helped. It just happens. We'd all love a perfect world where everyone gets along but I don't think that is a reality. [Edited on 06.14.2012 12:51 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazzySnipe55 The problem is, that for the experienced (or, at least, regular, 2+ year old) community as a whole, making fun of or jokes about the inexperience or mistakes of new members is a much more attractive option than actually helping someone out simply because making jokes about newbies gets you (subconscious) cool points with the regular and older members if you do it in a funny way.[/quote]I'd break newcomers into two types: there are the ones who act like idiots and there are the ones who read the forum descriptions / rules, and maybe lurk for a bit before they start posting. The idiots get the mickey taken, because quite frankly, they deserve it.* The guys who perhaps don't know their way around but act with a bit of dignity are generally treated with respect, in my experience. I'd go so far as to say this: it isn't a question of new guys being picked on for being new guys, it's a question of them being picked on for being idiots. Just ask Tiberium Boy 16. There are more idiots in the younger generations because: 1) they are biologically younger. I know that every single 12 year old is actually more mature than all the kids they know that are 18... but no. 2) they get bored and leave to go play with their Neopets or something. Does the fact that some people need to grow a bit older justify taking the piss out of them? Probably not. Maybe in some special cases. I'd just be wary of suggesting that it happens purely as a result of account age. After all, for all the jokes about '04 or bust, we all know that it's really the '07s who call the shots around here. *Do these words ring any bells?:[quote]*opens up MS Paint* "Okay, time to think of a thread idea"[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazzySnipe55 The problem is, that for the experienced (or, at least, regular, 2+ year old) community as a whole, making fun of or jokes about the inexperience or mistakes of new members is a much more attractive option than actually helping someone out simply because making jokes about newbies gets you (subconscious) cool points with the regular and older members if you do it in a funny way.[/quote]I'd break newcomers into two types: there are the ones who act like idiots and there are the ones who read the forum descriptions / rules, and maybe lurk for a bit before they start posting. The idiots get the mickey taken, because quite frankly, they deserve it.* The guys who perhaps don't know their way around but act with a bit of dignity are generally treated with respect, in my experience. I'd go so far as to say this: it isn't a question of new guys being picked on for being new guys, it's a question of them being picked on for being idiots. Just ask Tiberium Boy 16. There are more idiots in the younger generations because: 1) they are biologically younger. I know that every single 12 year old is actually more mature than all the kids they know that are 18... but no. 2) they get bored and leave to go play with their Neopets or something. Does the fact that some people need to grow a bit older justify taking the piss out of them? Probably not. Maybe in some special cases. I'd just be wary of suggesting that it happens purely as a result of account age. After all, for all the jokes about '04 or bust, we all know that it's really the '07s who call the shots around here. *Do these words ring any bells?:[quote]*opens up MS Paint* "Okay, time to think of a thread idea"[/quote][/quote]An enlightening perspective from a Mythic, indeed. I agree that there are some people (as referenced in your closing footnote) who do deserve a bit of grief now and then simply because all the other mediums through which one might communicate frustration have been exhausted, but the kind of irresponsible and reckless grief-giving I mentioned in the OP being associated with older members was more of the "lol learn to forums*" type of stuff. Or the "Not another one of these threads..." comments. Because, unless a comment (especially like the latter) is warranted because of the fact that it's at least relatively well known that the user being discussed has been around long enough to know better, it's unwarranted and makes that dividing line between the generations just *that* much bigger, makes the animosity between them just *that* much more, and makes the forums just *that* much less of a place where everyone can openly communicate with one another (on an even playing field). And, like I mentioned in that same post you quoted, I'm clearly not perfect. Far from it. I'd much sooner give advice and make observations than take it and learn from them, and I'm not afraid to admit it. :P

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  • I think all the generations are fine right now. We all communicate, and interact fine with each other. I mean yea the newbies need Guidance, but what newbie doesn't. We've all been through that stage. You say you think that the mythics she be divived into a different group. I don't think so I beleive that a 09 member can no just as much as an 04 member if he/she wan'ts to.

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  • The older generations for me 20+ are respected in a way they aren't immature. Everybody below 15 for me, are immature.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazzySnipe55 This is also, regrettably, a generation that gets a reputation both simultaneously undeserved to the last complaint thread, and at the same time fully deserved from all those unmistakably present threads in MM about "User X". [/quote]For what its worth, there are exactly two threads with a member named in the title on the front page of mythix right now, and both are related to ingroup happenings rather than laughing at how stupid User X is. See we hide that inside the threads to make it slightly harder to screencap and leak.

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  • My experience with my generation extends beyond the internet, and to my friends who I have grown and matured with... my generation (Late 80's/early 90's) came during a time when the internet didn't completely take over our lives. As we slowly start to become adults, I think some of us are disgruntled when we see a 12 year old post on sites like these trying to maintain their 'identity'. As an adult (22 years old)... my suggestion is this; don't rely on the internet for social validation. Sure, you may find someone to exchange words and ideas, but all of that is null when comparing to the value of actual human co-existance with your peers. All too often the internet acts like an opiate for those who suffer from various anxiety disorders or social ineptness that makes face to face interaction with people almost un-palpable. So my 2 cents for those who are in the middle of their youthful years seeking solice in a world seemingly void of genuine and nice people... "[b]The internet doesn't provide the same comfort as a hug from a real person that you know and care about[/b]."

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazzySnipe55 [b]TL;DR: What do you think about the different "generations" here on BNet and how they interact with each other?[/b][/quote] Most generations get along smoothly with each other. I have some friends that are heroic members, regular members, etc. [Edited on 06.14.2012 4:27 AM PDT]

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  • I stopped reading at 'yoots'. What on earth is a yoot!?

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  • Im old and grumpy. I tend to only get along with my fellow 04s. I have been here long enough to see repeat thread after repeat thread. All the kids hear with there undies in a wad over bungies new game and a site update. Well some of us have seen this very situation play out multiple times. So its hard to share that excitement. As for seeing 09s get blue bars.... thats even worse. I feel like it should be hard to earn mythic status. 09s getting it makes me feel like it now means nothing. I think i may as well just thrust myself upon my samurai sword.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EAGLES5 Im old and grumpy. I tend to only get along with my fellow 04s. I have been here long enough to see repeat thread after repeat thread. All the kids hear with there undies in a wad over bungies new game and a site update. Well some of us have seen this very situation play out multiple times. So its hard to share that excitement. As for seeing 09s get blue bars.... thats even worse. I feel like it should be hard to earn mythic status. 09s getting it makes me feel like it now means nothing. I think i may as well just thrust myself upon my samurai sword.[/quote] High five! '04 or bust!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EAGLES5 As for seeing 09s get blue bars.... thats even worse.[/quote] Which 09s have blue bars?

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  • What we're discussing truly is timeless and constant. [url=http://youtu.be/UG3f3Nab1DA]Shakespeare's take on it[/url], listen and think of the Bungie community.

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  • The different forums seem to mix the generations up a little too, I've always said the Community forum is the retirement home of B.net, slow paced, we moan about stuff, younger folk come to visit then get bored quickly and leave.

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  • You old people need to lighten up. :p

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  • I've been visiting this site since 2002, and participating in it since 2006. I've seen this site experience many changes and phases, and you did a pretty decent job of summarizing the different "generations", but of course there is always the odd exception to the rule, but that goes without saying. This site, for as long as it stands will continue to see the same perpetual stages of entry, growth, followed by the inevitable plateau period where members have at this time, seen and heard almost all. So, how do they maintain interest? Better yet, why do they continue coming to a place where all almost all possible experiences in the forums have been had, and exhausted? Well mix in a tad bit of insanity, with a dash of cynicism, along with an unforgiving attitude and a know-it-all, seen-it-all approach to everything, and you'll be guaranteed to garner a brand new input, and response experience than your standard formal input response mechanic that you has otherwise been performing for several years, and this place feels somehow interesting again. Beyond that though, is the last and final phase of "growth" as I perceive it. You surpass that constant feel of "I've done it all, so I'm just going to act out or behave in a cynical manner to appear superior by time spent on an Internet forum", and you instead begin to understand that this entire place is cyclical, and not only that, but as well people will want to enjoy it just the same as you have for so many years, so you do what you can to share in topics, knowing even though you've beaten the dead horse yourself, your input could still be valuable to another. And if your input is garbage, there is still that ability to assist in guiding or helping new members when they seek assistance. After all has been said and done, you now are aware that while you can still be a bit of the old grouch sometimes, your time here can still hold potential value for others, and as I said before, you hope they have the same incredible experience you once had. [Edited on 06.14.2012 6:50 AM PDT]

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  • Having been active on this site since 1857, I can attest that most of these large gaps in user "ages" is not only a product of this new and flashy title system, but also the manner by which a user chooses to post. Worrying about the customary formalities in regards to terms such as 'OP' truly isn't a sign of generation but rather a reflection of the culture that has developed within forums on this information superhighway. I feel that despite this alleged gap caused by titles, reputation of a poster's past-posted postings greatly affects how their posty posts shall be received. Some may be seen as naive questions, others could be viewed as trolls. If a user acts immature, they will be responded with as such. Developing a habit of posting maturely will general garner the appropriate response. Maturity reciprocates well on this board for all the wrong reasons, and it is up to the immature few to slap their -blam!- and tell the mature masses that they're just -blam!- wrong. That being said I do acknowledge users tend to associate themselves into account age cohorts. This is usually a product of common interests or experienced events on the site. Each generation has their great triumph and horror story, and the following generations will never be capable of sharing that experience and must therefore always separate themselves and form their own.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 You old people need to lighten up. :p[/quote] I find the younger members tend to take everything said with complete seriousness. It's not their fault, though. Anyway, I found a video that pretty much sums up those mean old sarcastic bastards known as [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEkfJbJPwjQ]Mythic Members[/url].

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Synyster Ricz [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 You old people need to lighten up. :p[/quote] I find the younger members tend to take everything said with complete seriousness. It's not their fault, though. Anyway, I found a video that pretty much sums up those mean old sarcastic bastards known as [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEkfJbJPwjQ]Mythic Members[/url].[/quote] Yeah I can see it like that and I agree people take things too seriously.

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  • Each individual's views alone are only based off of prior experiences with any community. What you're showing in the OP is not only what happens with bungie.net, but any community (not even just online ones). Look at the workforce for example. You start your way out at the bottom, as time goes on you learn different tricks of the trade and work your way up the ladder. However, judging all of this from bungie.net in it's current state would be inaccurate. When was the last time Bungie was flat out dark? It hasn't been this way before - since there was always a game or Weekly Updates to look forward too. I find that the older users get the more adapt they are to "sticking with their kind" so to speak. That initial community that you first interacted with on the site, is going to be the most memorable for you. Which is different for everyone. Once we have all these sub communities they function in different ways - which is where you see conflict, you point them out nicely in the OP. Once you hit the top of the food chain, you've decided that you're done with it. Everything that is being done is just old hat to you, in one form or another you've seen how things are done. Not just around here, but in any community or workplace. You find different ways to approach things, but they're not really that different. They're different because the younger generation doesn't know the habits simply because they weren't there for the time being. Clashes of generations aren't bad. In fact, I think it's one of those things that strengthen the community. Sure you can have guys that have been around for a while see all the repeat threads and idea, but to watch the younger guys/gals see their approach on it might change the way the community as a whole sees a line of thought. [Edited on 06.14.2012 7:55 AM PDT]

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  • [quote]So we here at BNet must, at this point, especially in the community forum more so than anywhere else, that there are clearly defined generational divides between members of the community. [/quote] Is there a word missing here?

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