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4/9/2011 1:52:46 AM
875
"Think Twice" Map feedback thread (now available)
[quote][b]Updated [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=58880594&postRepeater1-p=1#58880616]Thread Disclaimer[/url] below[/b][/quote]
Download[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16952073&player=A%203%20Legged%20Goat][b] "Think Twice"[/b][/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRuXUdYk6TA]Think Twice gameplay montage[/url] by riftegifle
-[url=http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1067705]Halo.Bungie.Org post[/url]
-[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/04/think-twice.html]ReachingPerfection Post[/url]
-[url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/reach-competitive-maps/124573-think-twice.html]Forgehub Thread[/url]
-[url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]HaloCharts Satryros thread[/url] (public page)
[quote][b]Screenshots[/b]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5228/5653850654_8dfd427242_b.jpg]Red Base[/url]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5304/5653850826_91fb64ae16_b.jpg]Blue Base[/url]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5150/5653279813_62b8a4d060_b.jpg]Green Room[/url]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5653279655_cb9996118a_b.jpg]Gold Room[/url]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5146/5653279717_50d3b6f206_b.jpg]Top Center[/url]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/5653279511_0852e4fb92_b.jpg]Bottom Center[/url]
[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5653427773_6054e6fdc8_b.jpg]Top and Bottom Levels[/url]
[/quote]
The Think Twice Public Beta has concluded. On behalf of the four of us, we thank all of you who participated in testing and posted feedback in this thread. Your comments helped the map nearly reach perfection. Our refined and polished design is now available for all to download and share. However, a map is never finished, so this thread will continue to serve as the feedback thread for Think Twice. Thanks again for all of your support.
To view the list of changes from Beta to now, as well as new videos, please see [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=58880594&postRepeater1-p=28#59369861]this post[/url].
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-S3S2aXW8]Final Version Youtube Walkthrough[/url]
>[url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=31214]Public Beta on Comm Chatter[/url] (thanks for your support Urk!)
>[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvNTnWPvlc]Beta Gameplay[/url] on youtube
[i]Think Twice[/i] is a simple, yet innovative competitive multiplayer map created by Sven Nietzsche, GodlyPerfection, Jonzorz 124, and myself. The public beta ran from April 11th 2011 to April 23rd 2011. We received constructive and profound feedback from many of the testers, which was invaluable in fine-tuning the map. We humbly thank all of the participants. Your comments have refined the map and made it much better.
[b]Beta Action-Shots[/b]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392256&player=Sven Nietzsche]Battle for the Green Room[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392252&player=Sven Nietzsche]Whoever wins gets the Healthpack![/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392287&player=Sven Nietzsche] I guess I lose...[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392312&player=Sven Nietzsche] Obi! I told you not to feed the Dinos!![/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392311&player=Sven Nietzsche]Soo Much Awsome![/url]
[quote][/quote]
[Edited on 04.27.2011 8:04 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oughta Otter[/quote] Hey calm down. I'm not trying to start a flame war here. I asked him to post maps that he thought were better and he did. I didn't ask him to post God's HDD into the thread. @Tueful Otter has a point though. The maps you posted were very blocky and were comprised of Forge objects that I could list by name. They don't look like maps, but rather objects tossed together. Now that doesn't mean it wont play good. I'm sure they'll play very well--even better than Think Twice. And I wasn't ever trying to come off as arrogant. If I did, then I apologize. I [i]wanted[/i] people to post good maps so I can study them and see what they do right that we did wrong. We aren't trying to boost our egos with this thread. I don't think any of us were expecting it to be frontpaged by Urk. Think Twice was a spontaneous forging concept that we came up with one night. We weren't building it to be the next Pit or Midship. We wanted to build a map that used a dual-layered center area that you could transition between. The side areas and bases came as a by-product of that, but the core of the map is quite literally its core--the center. Again, I know there are better maps out there. We can even build better maps. This was just us trying to experiment with some concepts, which designers need to be willing to do. Taking risks is what leads to discovery. Building inside the comfort zone of, as otter put it "Sniper Rockets Shotty" and the wide open, inclines, blocks there, railing there has already been done to death. Forge is too grey; too overkilled. With Think Twice, we tried to change that. Maybe it's not your style of gameplay. Maybe it'll be a complete disaster. I don't know where it'll be headed, but we tried what we could and we built it with default multiplayer in mind. That means AAs and gameplay for people who probably don't know how to callout in the first place. We aided that by aligning the map with cardinal directions and giving it distinct colors. I'd love to build a competitive map, but (as you said yourself I believe) I probably don't understand how to and I should best leave it to people who do. So that's all fair and done, correct? Then I'll stay over here and build maps that use risky designs and objects that flow together nicely. I'll build maps that look like actual maps and not block 2x4, block 3x3, strut, railing large, column, ramp xl, etc. MLG designers can build the competitive maps. I want them to. I like maps like Element and that other one with the weird name (Android?). Those maps just aren't what I want to build. No hard feelings I assume? [Edited on 04.24.2011 4:35 PM PDT]
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I have a small, unrelated query. [i]How is it that you can get a map straight into matchmaking[/i] without having to win some wretched contest? Thousands of people worked hard on competing with others in the Forgetacular Contest, yet you seem to be able to just send maps right into the pools. As you know, I'm obviously just jealous. It doesn't seem fair in my [b]opinion[/b].
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TuefulHunden87[/quote] Is that some practical joke? Those maps are nothing but forge objects tossed together. There's no flow. There's no cohesion. They just look like forge objects. So many blocks that don't even match with the struts or the inclines or the railings. You don't see that kind of disaster on Think Twice. So that leads oughta otter to think that you only care about gameplay. You with your MLG avatar and your MLG team lead only shows one thing: You only like MLG style of gameplay and MLG style of maps. How about you get over [i]yourself[/i].Maps don't need to suit your spawn camping rocket sniper shotty playing style. Those aren't the only way to build maps. Think Twice wasn't built for MLG tryhards that can't stop screaming into the mic when their teammate isn't where he's supposed to be. You have your mess of forge objects that you call maps, and the majority of the population has maps that still play well WITH AAs (the majority of the game) and look good too. Oughta Otter's seen the four of those guys ask for people to post good maps, yet all we ever see are forgey compilations of blocks and railings. Oughta Otter thought you were actually going to post good maps. Wouldn't expect to see that anywhere other than Community Slayer or MLG [Edited on 04.24.2011 4:23 PM PDT]
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I just figured out my Credit Card issues with my Xbox Live Profile, so I can finally get to play this map. That Spiker had still better be there...
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I've only rattled on about a good few of them several times already scrub. Want a list? I could list more than just this if you want. Seriously. I could probably list a map from every week since Reach launched that plays and/or looks better than your map here. Get over yourself. [url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/reach-mlg-maps/123172-android.html]Android[/url] [url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/featured-maps/117963-retroactive.html]Retroactive[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/400941/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=59326773]Veridian[/url] [url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/featured-maps/119311-rise.html]Rise[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/400941/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=59438772]Cargo[/url] [url=http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/202408-transit-asym-all-abooooooooooooooard/page__st__60__p__6685976__hl__transit__fromsearch__1#entry6685976]Transit[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/400941/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=59438123]Solace[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/400941/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=59438642]Boulevard[/url] [url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/featured-maps/122543-cynosure.html]Cyonosure[/url] And you know whats funny? I've criticized the hell out of every one of those maps, but the authors (minus DeathstarsOG) have been very humble and accepting of such criticism and have also seen the light of it. Further more, each and ever one of these forgers has more talent and understanding of forge in their little finger(s) that the four of you knuckle heads combined. Normally I wouldn't respond like this, but your arrogance in the matter is mind blowing. Where do any of you four get off thinking your some sort of authority or experts on map making or design when you pale in comparison to many of your contemporaries across the greater forge community?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TuefulHunden87 No, but we've probably got a map that pops up every few days that naturally out shines this tenfold. Few days minimum, two weeks max. Point being, lots of maps out there are better. [/quote] I'll believe you and everyone else when they link those maps to this thread. I'm not saying Think Twice is the best; I know there are better maps out there. But I'm still waiting for people to post [i]one[/i].
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can't wait for the release! i'm excited to play the -blam!- out of it. will it be file shared or what?
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No, but we've probably got a map that pops up every few days that naturally out shines this tenfold. Few days minimum, two weeks max. Point being, lots of maps out there are better.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ElementL09 Optimatch.[/quote] Lay off. It's not every day that we get a stellar map like this.
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Optimatch.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Nephilim713 coming to MM or what?[/quote] The version with changes based on community feedback is coming monday (an unfortunate clash with the GoW beta I might add). MP is a whole different story. If Bungie wants it, the earliest would be June.
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I swear, Bungie would do a whole lot better with you on their design team. It'd be awesome to see a known face in a ViDoc, too. :3
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Looking forward to playing this. Good job.
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Nice looking map. :D GJ!
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zapzap09 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jonzorz_124 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xCorruptedCx This map is meh, its too generic.[/quote] Too generic, meaning what. The design, the pathes, what exactly is too generic. Descriptive feedback is useful. Feedback this vague leaves us with nothing to work with.[/quote] I disagree. In my opinion, there is nothing generic about Think Twice. I absolutely love everything, from the long lines of sight, to the cleanly designed, yet intricate inner hallways, to the many trick jumps or techniques used to maneuver around. I especially love the new redesigned Hammer room! You get a nice view of Forge World. ;3[/quote] Thanks for the support ZapZap... hope you had a wonderful birthday. For those talking about how we go through Alpha, Beta, and official release phases, here is the final thing I'm gonna say about it. We take our design seriously. Alpha testing is all about getting our internal testing in to ensure that everything is working at a functional level. Once it is functioning we release a public beta to get a general consensus on how the map plays. We pay close attention to every little thing that people say about the map. This phase is to ensure that you guys get your say on the map and help us tweak it for all of you. It is our way of combining our vision with your needs and finding a happy medium between the two. As for the release date, it has a date because we are not done with it. This release date gives us a deadline that motivates us to get our map completed and fully tested. It also lets people know when they can see the full changes after all of their feedback was taken. Like I said, we are not done with it yet. Just this morning we worked on the killzones and changed the bottom center to be a bowl as well as reworked the hill placement of KOTH. Also hype is a big part of marketing and advertising. I take my level design seriously because I want a career doing this for Bungie. By doing this I am able to prepare myself for meeting deadlines and learning to be able to take criticism easier. Hearing that people don't enjoy your map isn't a very good feeling so this is a way for us to learn to take criticism well and try not to be stuck in our ways and learn to be flexible when it comes to making changes to improve it for our consumers. All that we are really looking at doing is providing the BEST possible product that we can give you. If you are not interested in the product then that is fine. It is impossible to please everyone, but we can and do improve the product for those that do enjoy it. If you think we are doing this for strictly popularity, then you are wrong sirs. Don't get me wrong, popularity is a side benefit that allows us to build our reputation and use that reputation in our advertising for future products. But popularity is not the reason we do things the way we do. We do this because we enjoy it and we want to give the community something that they can enjoy in customs and maybe one day in matchmaking. If you don't enjoy this, then we hope that you enjoy our past products or will enjoy our future products. We build for you guys, cuz we know how much fun playing a game like Halo can be and we want to make that experience better for you. I know that sounds corny, but it is the truth. Love you guys. ;)[/quote] <3
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] zapzap09 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jonzorz_124 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xCorruptedCx This map is meh, its too generic.[/quote] Too generic, meaning what. The design, the pathes, what exactly is too generic. Descriptive feedback is useful. Feedback this vague leaves us with nothing to work with.[/quote] I disagree. In my opinion, there is nothing generic about Think Twice. I absolutely love everything, from the long lines of sight, to the cleanly designed, yet intricate inner hallways, to the many trick jumps or techniques used to maneuver around. I especially love the new redesigned Hammer room! You get a nice view of Forge World. ;3[/quote] Thanks for the support ZapZap... hope you had a wonderful birthday. For those talking about how we go through Alpha, Beta, and official release phases, here is the final thing I'm gonna say about it. We take our design seriously. Alpha testing is all about getting our internal testing in to ensure that everything is working at a functional level. Once it is functioning we release a public beta to get a general consensus on how the map plays. We pay close attention to every little thing that people say about the map. This phase is to ensure that you guys get your say on the map and help us tweak it for all of you. It is our way of combining our vision with your needs and finding a happy medium between the two. As for the release date, it has a date because we are not done with it. This release date gives us a deadline that motivates us to get our map completed and fully tested. It also lets people know when they can see the full changes after all of their feedback was taken. Like I said, we are not done with it yet. Just this morning we worked on the killzones and changed the bottom center to be a bowl as well as reworked the hill placement of KOTH. Also hype is a big part of marketing and advertising. I take my level design seriously because I want a career doing this for Bungie. By doing this I am able to prepare myself for meeting deadlines and learning to be able to take criticism easier. Hearing that people don't enjoy your map isn't a very good feeling so this is a way for us to learn to take criticism well and try not to be stuck in our ways and learn to be flexible when it comes to making changes to improve it for our consumers. All that we are really looking at doing is providing the BEST possible product that we can give you. If you are not interested in the product then that is fine. It is impossible to please everyone, but we can and do improve the product for those that do enjoy it. If you think we are doing this for strictly popularity, then you are wrong sirs. Don't get me wrong, popularity is a side benefit that allows us to build our reputation and use that reputation in our advertising for future products. But popularity is not the reason we do things the way we do. We do this because we enjoy it and we want to give the community something that they can enjoy in customs and maybe one day in matchmaking. If you don't enjoy this, then we hope that you enjoy our past products or will enjoy our future products. We build for you guys, cuz we know how much fun playing a game like Halo can be and we want to make that experience better for you. I know that sounds corny, but it is the truth. Love you guys. ;)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jonzorz_124 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xCorruptedCx This map is meh, its too generic.[/quote] Too generic, meaning what. The design, the pathes, what exactly is too generic. Descriptive feedback is useful. Feedback this vague leaves us with nothing to work with.[/quote] I disagree. In my opinion, there is nothing generic about Think Twice. I absolutely love everything, from the long lines of sight, to the cleanly designed, yet intricate inner hallways, to the many trick jumps or techniques used to maneuver around. I especially love the new redesigned Hammer room! You get a nice view of Forge World. ;3
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xCorruptedCx This map is meh, its too generic.[/quote] Too generic, meaning what. The design, the pathes, what exactly is too generic. Descriptive feedback is useful. Feedback this vague leaves us with nothing to work with.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DarkSpyda04 How you've managed to get this many replies, I'll never know. My Alpha map pack only got about 5 replies.[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=50151278]Reputation[/url] and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=49422572]Advertisement[/url] from the forge lessons teach a little on how to go about building a name for yourself. Aside from that, joining a strong forging community such as Reaching Perfection, ITWP, Toolbox, etc. will also help.
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How you've managed to get this many replies, I'll never know. My Alpha map pack only got about 5 replies.
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I've played this map about 20 times in RP customs, and I must say it would be an excellent addition to MM. You guys are certainly determined :P
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Jon don't worry about the replies anymore. We've already explained ourselves and I'm tired of trying to reason with people that don't see this anymore than a grab at popularity. If you don't like how we're presenting the map, don't post in the thread. We want feedback on the map, not feedback on the damn feedback thread itself. [Edited on 04.23.2011 12:54 PM PDT]
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This map is meh, its too generic.
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That looks sick, I'm downloading.
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In case you didn't see my [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=58880594&postRepeater1-p=29#59471437]earlier post[/url], I suggested that you change the side hallways a little. Even in you just made it on a slant, it would help it out a little. Combat seems a little bland in there. Other than that, excellent job. The movement between the two levels in the center hall is really original and nicely done. [Edited on 04.23.2011 11:05 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XxXAlesanaXxX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Shotgun fun 101 WHy should I care about one persons map, why should 5+ threads be made for one map, why do you think people are gong to play on it more than once or twice before going to MM[/quote] None of that even bothers me because he's not trying to just get popular through the map just trying to get some good stuff in matchmaking. I don't like that he gives it a release date. Don't be corny just release the map. It's not like I'm gonna be sitting around waiting for the more polished version of your map to release. [/quote] I assure you none of us are expecting you to be sitting around waiting ever so diligently for the map to come out lol. We are not that naive. We have a release date simply because we decided to have a two week public beta, and by the end of those two weeks we would have a finished version available. We did this because we felt that it would be disrespectful to those who have taken the time to test our map to simply say thanks for the feedback we'll finish it when we get a chance. I know it can sound like we are trying to be all super official but that's how the words sound and we are sorry of it comes off that way.
