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4/9/2011 1:52:46 AM
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"Think Twice" Map feedback thread (now available)

[quote][b]Updated [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=58880594&postRepeater1-p=1#58880616]Thread Disclaimer[/url] below[/b][/quote] Download[url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16952073&player=A%203%20Legged%20Goat][b] "Think Twice"[/b][/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRuXUdYk6TA]Think Twice gameplay montage[/url] by riftegifle -[url=http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1067705]Halo.Bungie.Org post[/url] -[url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/04/think-twice.html]ReachingPerfection Post[/url] -[url=http://www.forgehub.com/forum/reach-competitive-maps/124573-think-twice.html]Forgehub Thread[/url] -[url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]HaloCharts Satryros thread[/url] (public page) [quote][b]Screenshots[/b] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5228/5653850654_8dfd427242_b.jpg]Red Base[/url] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5304/5653850826_91fb64ae16_b.jpg]Blue Base[/url] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5150/5653279813_62b8a4d060_b.jpg]Green Room[/url] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5653279655_cb9996118a_b.jpg]Gold Room[/url] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5146/5653279717_50d3b6f206_b.jpg]Top Center[/url] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/5653279511_0852e4fb92_b.jpg]Bottom Center[/url] [url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5653427773_6054e6fdc8_b.jpg]Top and Bottom Levels[/url] [/quote] The Think Twice Public Beta has concluded. On behalf of the four of us, we thank all of you who participated in testing and posted feedback in this thread. Your comments helped the map nearly reach perfection. Our refined and polished design is now available for all to download and share. However, a map is never finished, so this thread will continue to serve as the feedback thread for Think Twice. Thanks again for all of your support. To view the list of changes from Beta to now, as well as new videos, please see [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=58880594&postRepeater1-p=28#59369861]this post[/url]. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-S3S2aXW8]Final Version Youtube Walkthrough[/url] >[url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=31214]Public Beta on Comm Chatter[/url] (thanks for your support Urk!) >[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvNTnWPvlc]Beta Gameplay[/url] on youtube [i]Think Twice[/i] is a simple, yet innovative competitive multiplayer map created by Sven Nietzsche, GodlyPerfection, Jonzorz 124, and myself. The public beta ran from April 11th 2011 to April 23rd 2011. We received constructive and profound feedback from many of the testers, which was invaluable in fine-tuning the map. We humbly thank all of the participants. Your comments have refined the map and made it much better. [b]Beta Action-Shots[/b] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392256&player=Sven Nietzsche]Battle for the Green Room[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392252&player=Sven Nietzsche]Whoever wins gets the Healthpack![/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392287&player=Sven Nietzsche] I guess I lose...[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392312&player=Sven Nietzsche] Obi! I told you not to feed the Dinos!![/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=16392311&player=Sven Nietzsche]Soo Much Awsome![/url] [quote][/quote] [Edited on 04.27.2011 8:04 AM PDT]
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  • This map better be in MM!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TuefulHunden87 I see this got submitted already for MM consideration... Lovely. :/[/quote] You aren't supposed to be telling people that shhh...[/quote] I didn't know until I read the satyros thread and you guys told me. as long as that stunt obi pulled was just his way of pulling my leg (no puns or irony intended). [/quote] However, Satyros is a private group so it is fine to talk about it there.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Godly_Perfection [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TuefulHunden87 I see this got submitted already for MM consideration... Lovely. :/[/quote] You aren't supposed to be telling people that shhh...[/quote] I didn't know until I read the satyros thread and you guys told me. as long as that stunt obi pulled was just his way of pulling my leg (no puns or irony intended). [Edited on 04.27.2011 7:44 PM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TuefulHunden87 I see this got submitted already for MM consideration... Lovely. :/[/quote] You aren't supposed to be telling people that shhh...

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  • I see this got submitted already for MM consideration... Lovely. :/

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  • If anybody wants to play some Customs on Think Twice but doesn't have anybody to play with, add me GT: MurrayMan321

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  • Dynamic is not just energy or force. Sorry to have an English moment but dynamic also means change and all. So by dynamic, I was really trying to say "Not as flat", but hey that's just me. Not everyone you talk to will like your map, and sadly, I'm one of those people... But other than that, I loved it.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Obi Wan Stevobi [url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]Made a public page for it over on HC.[/url][/quote] Thanks Obi, and I updated the page. I was afraid people weren't going to see the satyros post because I linked the actual thread and not the join the group option.

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  • This deserves to be a permanent map in Matchmaking.

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  • Dont like it very much. Sorry

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  • Well I certainly appreciate your open-mindedness and am looking forward to hearing your input after you've got a few games under your belt. (That saying makes no sense by the way.) Oh and feel free to shoot me a message on XBL when you decide to come to Reach, we've got customs lobbies going on all the time. =)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jonzorz_124 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FabFubar [/quote] While your opinion is not wholly unique on the matter, I can't help but notice that your account hasn't played Reach since March 11. If this is true and you haven't actually played the map yet, then the only "experience" you have is with the videos we have rendered. This lack of play experience leads me to believe your conclusion on the map is premature.  Though on the other hand, if you have played the map and continue to reach that conclusion I would like to see the videos of those games if that is possible. =)  Thank you for feedback. [/quote] Well, you are completely right about the fact I can't give a 100% trustworthy and valid opinion on the map, since I based it completely on two rendered matches played. I should have added that to my post... What I stated wasn't a conclusion, it was my opinion on it. A premature one, like you said, because I was going to give the map a chance anyways. Don't get me wrong; I don't think this is a bad map. It's better than all my attempts on maps so far, that's for sure :p I'm sure it is a good map, I'm just not sure if I could see it work for capture the flag for instance. You can't know everything without playing it yourself, but usually I have a better understanding of a battlefield when reviewing video material than when I am playing. (films of my own, that is. I always think "I should have done that and I would have come out on top") I said REviewing, not viewing. I agree you only get half the picture when you watch video material. You get the other half from playing it yourself. Right now I'm in my exam period, and before that I also took a break from Reach. (some stressful matches are to blame) That's why it's been almost two months since my last Halo multiplayer match. But I assure you, I will play Reach again and I have already clicked the download button for Think Twice. I was gonna check it out anyway, it seems pretty kewl anyway. I was just having doubts about it being fit for matchmaking. And I will get back to you once i tried it out. However, I'm more of a lone wolf and barely have friends on matchmaking (:/) so odds are slim of me ever playing a custom match on it. (and it looks awesome for custom matches!)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Obi Wan Stevobi [url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]Made a public page for it over on HC.[/url][/quote] wow, thanks Obi!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Obi Wan Stevobi [url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]Made a public page for it over on HC.[/url][/quote] Hell ya. :)

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Obi Wan Stevobi [url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]Made a public page for it over on HC.[/url][/quote] Thank you very much Obi... Goat update your thread with the public page link bro.

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  • [url=http://halocharts.com/grouppages.php?group_id=4984&page=Think%20Twice]Made a public page for it over on HC.[/url]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat We're currently [i]blueprinting[/i]... [/quote] >.> <.< icwatudidthar! <3

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RockYou304 Is there going to be another test? I played with another person but just slayer. And I was slow on responding. Now for the sad part: In my opinion (now I didn't go out and see if everything matched or if everything was the same), but I think it needs more dynamic. It's really "Oh, look at the top level - flat. The bottom level - pretty much the same. Now, I am not the greatest map maker, but I have been helpful in people editing their maps to make them good. It gave me a lasting impression for sure, but it needs a little more dynamic.[/quote] With Think Twice, we wanted to experiment with a 2-tiered centerpiece and branch off of that. The center is our dynamic, and so is how combat flows out of it and through the side rooms when it becomes congested. However, it's still a simple design (as we intended). We're currently blueprinting a more complex map that will feature a ridiculous amount of path options and areas of interest.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General_Rafa [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jonzorz_124 Generally with most maps, I have found that it can take about 5-10 games before the player is able to orient themselves without hesitation. That is assuming the only experience the player has had with map is competitive gameplay and not a fly-through in forge. But I am speaking in generalities, for example, Ive played Countdown a ton of times and it is only just recently that I have been able to orient myself without hesitation at spawn or during gameplay.[/quote] I find maps more enjoyable when you play them for like the first 2 or 3 times. I love the experience of playing out and exploring new maps. Although, that hasn't been achieved in an FPS so far with the exception of Brink, which hasn't even come out yet.[/quote] I too am a big fan of the "new experience" feel when playing maps for the first time and it is definitely hard to keep that "new" feeling alive in a map after multiple games. Creating that lasting impression can be a difficult task in competitive gameplay. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RockYou304 Is there going to be another test? I played with another person but just slayer. And I was slow on responding. Now for the sad part: In my opinion (now I didn't go out and see if everything matched or if everything was the same), but I think it needs more dynamic. It's really "Oh, look at the top level - flat. The bottom level - pretty much the same. Now, I am not the greatest map maker, but I have been helpful in people editing their maps to make them good. It gave me a lasting impression for sure, but it needs a little more dynamic.[/quote] There will always be more testing, no map is ever truly done. So feel free to shoot one of us a friend request or hop on over to the forums at [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/04/current-think-twice-changelist.html]Reaching Perfection[/URL] to get in on some testing.  As for your sad part, I have to be honest, I have no idea what you were trying to say. The word dynamic means force or energy and I'm not sure how you were trying to use that in your critique. And as for the part about everything matching or being the same, well I really didn't understand that either. Would it be possible for you to go a little more in depth with the feedback you gave? That would be awesome, thank you. = ) [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WalllessTerror If it is as good as the beta map, if not better, then I will still download this, because the beta was very impressive.[/quote] I can assure the map has improved greatly since the Beta. We actually made a [url=http://www.reachingperfection.com/2011/04/current-think-twice-changelist.html]Change List[/url]  so that you could see all of the improvements that have been made.  Hope you enjoy it and feel free to come back with more comments whenever you like.

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  • If it is as good as the beta map, if not better, then I will still download this, because the beta was very impressive.

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  • Is there going to be another test? I played with another person but just slayer. And I was slow on responding. Now for the sad part: In my opinion (now I didn't go out and see if everything matched or if everything was the same), but I think it needs more dynamic. It's really "Oh, look at the top level - flat. The bottom level - pretty much the same. Now, I am not the greatest map maker, but I have been helpful in people editing their maps to make them good. It gave me a lasting impression for sure, but it needs a little more dynamic.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jonzorz_124 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RC Master [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat To be quite honest though, I don't understand how players have a hard time orienting themselves.[/quote] Haha. You know thats a bad sign right?[/quote] It's forge world, and you can only do so much with the objects you are given. Even then, there's a certain point where you have to draw the line between aiding a player and holding their hand. The amount of color cues on this map is ridiculous. Although the bases are identical, the colors and some textures are not. Then the two side areas are different. If a player has trouble orienting, the center serves as the waypoint, much like condemned. It shows you where all the rooms are. However, the map does have a learning curve and the players who have trouble shouldn't still be struggling after a few games (also like Condemned). [/quote] Generally with most maps, I have found that it can take about 5-10 games before the player is able to orient themselves without hesitation. That is assuming the only experience the player has had with map is competitive gameplay and not a fly-through in forge. But I am speaking in generalities, for example, Ive played Countdown a ton of times and it is only just recently that I have been able to orient myself without hesitation at spawn or during gameplay.[/quote] I find maps more enjoyable when you play them for like the first 2 or 3 times. I love the experience of playing out and exploring new maps. Although, that hasn't been achieved in an FPS so far with the exception of Brink, which hasn't even come out yet.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RC Master [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat To be quite honest though, I don't understand how players have a hard time orienting themselves.[/quote] Haha. You know thats a bad sign right?[/quote] It's forge world, and you can only do so much with the objects you are given. Even then, there's a certain point where you have to draw the line between aiding a player and holding their hand. The amount of color cues on this map is ridiculous. Although the bases are identical, the colors and some textures are not. Then the two side areas are different. If a player has trouble orienting, the center serves as the waypoint, much like condemned. It shows you where all the rooms are. However, the map does have a learning curve and the players who have trouble shouldn't still be struggling after a few games (also like Condemned). [/quote] Generally with most maps, I have found that it can take about 5-10 games before the player is able to orient themselves without hesitation. That is assuming the only experience the player has had with map is competitive gameplay and not a fly-through in forge. But I am speaking in generalities, for example, Ive played Countdown a ton of times and it is only just recently that I have been able to orient myself without hesitation at spawn or during gameplay.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RC Master [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat To be quite honest though, I don't understand how players have a hard time orienting themselves.[/quote] Haha. You know thats a bad sign right?[/quote] It's forge world, and you can only do so much with the objects you are given. Even then, there's a certain point where you have to draw the line between aiding a player and holding their hand. The amount of color cues on this map is ridiculous. Although the bases are identical, the colors and some textures are not. Then the two side areas are different. If a player has trouble orienting, the center serves as the waypoint, much like condemned. It shows you where all the rooms are. However, the map does have a learning curve and the players who have trouble shouldn't still be struggling after a few games (also like Condemned).

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  • For the record, of those MLG maps posted in response to TT, Transit was the only one I genuinely liked. Glad you guys finally figured out a tagline for the description, lol.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat To be quite honest though, I don't understand how players have a hard time orienting themselves.[/quote] Haha. You know thats a bad sign right? [quote]Not only that, but the callout system also changes with the room you are in,[/quote] The callouts you lose in split-screen and people won't really expect them to be different on a FW map anyway. I can tell you that I for one still couldn't tell you what that open area on countdown with the concussion rifle is named on the callout system.

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