Also pointing out that Halsey us inside onyx with Kurt and the few survivors and that it would be impossible for her to be on reach. Or just for added fun in halo 4

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] silversleek 117 while there was said to be only 300 slots, there was a massive chunk of time missing between alphas first test and kurts arrival on the point of no return. it may be possible that the number of slots was increased, similar to gammas(or was it beta?) they say in the book that 300 spartans launched the attack, they never specifically said ALL of the spartans participated.some spartans, possibly even 20+ may have been deployed elsewhere. it does state, in your own words(which you quoted from the book, i think. "it cost the lives of [i]every Spartan-III [b]on the asteroid[/b][/i]"[/quote] There is also a point in the book where Tom specifically states that there were only 300 slots for augmentation in his company during training. This itself proves that at least during Beta, there was only 300 augmented Spartan III's and one can assume that all Spartan III company's were more than likely limited to 300 Spartans.

That actually makes sense and fits halseys character perfectly cause well she is a scientist afterall

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] privet caboose [quote][/quote] [b]Error:[/b] Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive. [b]Proof:[/b] Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components. The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of [i]every Spartan-III on the asteroid[/i] because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion. Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on [i]how[/i] they escaped at all. [b]Sources: [/b] - Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87. - Halo Reach [quote][/quote] [/quote] while there was said to be only 300 slots, there was a massive chunk of time missing between alphas first test and kurts arrival on the point of no return. it may be possible that the number of slots was increased, similar to gammas(or was it beta?) they say in the book that 300 spartans launched the attack, they never specifically said ALL of the spartans participated.some spartans, possibly even 20+ may have been deployed elsewhere. it does state, in your own words(which you quoted from the book, i think. "it cost the lives of [i]every Spartan-III [b]on the asteroid[/b][/i]" [Edited on 12.16.2011 5:53 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juen Teran What do you mean with that argument?[/quote] I probably could have worded that one a bit better, heh >_> I more or less meant that they're not mutually exclusive. IE; the two exist together and neither one is a "fake" story making the other the "real" story...I'm not sure that made any sense at all :/ It's not like one of the two is separate from the Halo story and thus wouldn't have happened (fanfiction you could say) and the other is part of the story and did happen. I was trying to say that they're both the same story (though told from different viewpoints) as opposed to one being untruth and the other being "what really happened". [quote]Please enlighten me, as I didn't have any problem with the battle book. In fact, the only problem some people (more like idiots) had with the book is the fact that Reach fell in a single day. Yeah, let's ignore this awesome story overall, Reach fell in a day, -blam!- Nylund, he knows nothing of the Halo Universe.[/quote] Gladly, here's a list of all the problems with the battle in TFoR that I am aware of. 1. Where was all of the UNSC air support planet-side? Skyhawks (armed with four 50mm cannons, anti-tank missiles), Longswords, Shortswords, Vultures, etc. All of these would have taken out any of the dropships the Covenant dispatched to the planet with absolutely no effort whatsoever. Yet there's no mention of any air support being deployed whatsoever. Aside from a bombing run of 1-3 Longswords that took out more of their own troops than the Covenant. 2. Why were the generators so poorly defended and only just then having bunkers and such built around/near them? These are some of, if not the most, important pieces of defensive hardware the UNSC has on Reach as they power the SMACs, the most powerful orbital weapons in their arsenal. Something as important as the generators should have had a permanent garrison of troops, armor, and defensive lines/bunkers/fortifications, etc. all around them. Yet in the book there's absolutely nothing there other than some hastily constructed defenses and only a few soldiers there holding the position. 3. How is it, the Covenant can overwhelm the generators, UNSC command and the main armory, with just hundreds of dropships within the span of an hour, 3 hours at most, when they do not know the location of either and have to travel from the poles where they were being deployed? Especially when the Covenant don't really know where any of the key UNSC structure or points of interest are and their numbers just got decimated coming into the planet. They take these positions without any time to regroup or take stock of who or what was lost coming in. 4. And how is it that they can swarm all over the planet and completely overrun some of the most important locations with only a couple hundred dropships (which can only carry about 30 troops each) getting through the UNSC fleet and then splitting up for multiple targets (three at least). 5. And how is that the UNSC High Command got overrun by what would only amount to about a hundred or so dropships? Possibly the most important place in the UNSC military and it's completely overrun in minutes by a paltry number of enemies. Where were was the air support, the anti-aircraft guns, the massive amounts of troops and armor that would be defending the location, and the fortifications? This would be a place that in any normal military would be able to last several [i][b][u]weeks[/u][/b][/i] against enemy forces...and it falls in roughly an hour. And all that's just the planet-side aspect of the battle. There aren't as many problems with the space battle aspect, but what ones there are are just as big, maybe even bigger, as the ones with the ground battle. 1. Perhaps the biggest problem with the space battle is the fact that Nylund can't keep his numbers straight, despite listing all of the casualties to each side as the battle goes on. The Covenant start out with about 314 ships, and then half of them get destroyed by a mine-field and I believe a salvo from the SMACs before they even open fire on the UNSC ships. So by the time they actually engage the UNSC their ship numbers are pretty much even, each has about a 150+ ships. Anyway, he lists the casualties to each side as the battle goes on and the numbers of active ships on each side stays fairly even. However, by the time Nylund has the Autumn showing up the UNSC is suddenly down 70+ ships for absolutely no reason at all. No narration explaining their sudden disappearance or anything at all to hint that they were destroyed, fled, or somehow rendered inactive. They're just gone. That's a pretty damn big plot-hole. 2. And harkening back to when I said that the Covenant and UNSC had roughly equal numbers of ships when the Covenant finally opened fire. The UNSC also has those 20 or so SMACs, which would count for about 3 UNSC ships each, imo, as they can completely gut a Covenant ship with one shot. So, counting each SMAC as three UNSC ships, there would be about 210 ships for the UNSC to the Covenant's 150+ ships by the time the two fleets actively engaged one another in combat. That's almost a 2:1 ratio in the UNSC's favor (if I did my numbers right, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, math is not my strong point), and we all know that the UNSC does much better in space fighting when they have more numbers than the Covenant. Plus factor in that a great deal of their greatest tactical minds would be there taking part in the space battle (such as Captain Keyes) so the UNSC would have stood a very great chance of stopping the Covenant in their tracks given the facts of what it usually take for the UNSC to win and all the evidence from past situations. So with all that in mind the space battle doesn't really follow the Halo universe's own rules/logic for how space combat tends to go down. So really the Covenant shouldn't have won, I'm not going to say many UNSC ships or defense would have survived intact, 'cause they probably wouldn't have, but the Covenant's initial assault would have been stopped and Reach would have one of the UNSC's many other Pyrrhic victories in the war. And whether the space battle would have lasted more than a day given [i]just[/i] the information from the book I can't say, but it would have lasted a great deal longer than the mere two (give or take) hours that it did in TFoR, it wasn't even a day, the space battle lasted almost less than an hour (which is very, ridiculous).

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Juan Teran [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa neither one of which is the "real story"[/quote]What do you mean with that argument? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa and quite frankly Reach fixed a lot of the problems that the battle in the book had.[/quote]Please enlighten me, as I didn't have any problem with the battle book. In fact, the only problem some people (more like idiots) had with the book is the fact that Reach fell in a single day. Yeah, let's ignore this awesome story overall, Reach fell in a day, -blam!- Nylund, he knows nothing of the Halo Universe.[/quote] How about the fact Reach had zero ground defenses, and lost the most important locations on the planet to a bum rush by maybe a 100 or few hundred dropships? Or how those locations fell within 2-3 hours despite travel time and the fact the dropships would have to regroup and figure out who is left? What about the fact the UNSC ground forces never mobilized or put up a fight, and the UNSC airforce with skyhawks (anti-tank missles and 4 50mm cannons) never did a thing?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa neither one of which is the "real story"[/quote]What do you mean with that argument? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OrderedComa and quite frankly Reach fixed a lot of the problems that the battle in the book had.[/quote]Please enlighten me, as I didn't have any problem with the battle book. In fact, the only problem some people (more like idiots) had with the book is the fact that Reach fell in a single day. Yeah, let's ignore this awesome story overall, Reach fell in a day, -blam!- Nylund, he knows nothing of the Halo Universe. [Edited on 12.15.2011 6:08 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Da Kman117 Ya Halo reach was a great game to those of you who care nothing about the story line, but for those of us who do it kindov sucks and it didnt go accuratly with the real story at all.[/quote] I care just as much about the overall Halo story as any of the other major posters in the Universe forum (Grey101, Anton1792, DaeFaron, Decepticon Cobra, Elder Bias, Wolverfrog, and too many more really active members to name), however I have absolutely no problem meshing Reach and TFoR (neither one of which is the "real story"), and quite frankly Reach fixed a lot of the problems that the battle in the book had. And I really enjoyed the game, probably one of the best in the series in my opinion.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lobster Fish 2 [url=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2011/02/oreillycantexplain1.jpg]My only thought.[/url][/quote] HAHA wow lol

Ya Halo reach was a great game to those of you who care nothing about the story line, but for those of us who do it kindov sucks and it didnt go accuratly with the real story at all.

[url=http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2011/02/oreillycantexplain1.jpg]My only thought.[/url]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] P3P5I Maybe. Maybe the energy required to cloak a gigantic ship that well does damage to another part of the ship that renders it useless for days until repair or some other reason that wouldn't allow the Covenant to mass produce this technology.[/quote] That, or elites think it dishonorable to hide from battle. Personal active camo is a combat tool, where cloaking an entire ship is hiding, a cowardly act.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jack254 6: that stealth is part of the game when there should be technologie preventing this[/quote] You can't exactly stop someone from bending light around themselves...

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Alf stewert Ive always wondered something now I am a big halo fan but for some reason when I see all of us going crazy insulting others about how they either dont know the story or dont understand the characters. I always wonder, why do we act like idiotic smeg heads, I understand if we use this universe to dwell into something we can like and escape from the world, but isnt their a fine line between knowing it and having fun and Being so into a universe it takes over so much you critisize others about their knowledge? [/quote]And I thought the reach forum was bad. This whole thread has gone to hell ever since bungie left halo. Sad to c nowadays. Instead of telling people good job with at least attempting a thread, people just tell them everything is wrong. Got to miss Wolverfrog these days...

Ive always wondered something now I am a big halo fan but for some reason when I see all of us going crazy insulting others about how they either dont know the story or dont understand the characters. I always wonder, why do we act like idiotic smeg heads, I understand if we use this universe to dwell into something we can like and escape from the world, but isnt their a fine line between knowing it and having fun and Being so into a universe it takes over so much you critisize others about their knowledge?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Matu Flp Krawfe Bull-blam!-. If the covenant attacked on July 24th, whatever the force they were using, the invasion must be said to have started [i]on that date[/i]. [/quote] No, it doesn't. You see, there is a difference between an INVASION, and a scouting force or a simple attack. What happened in winter contingency was not an Invasion.

So basically, most of Halo's errors originate from Halo: Reach. Makes sense. [Edited on 12.14.2011 4:33 PM PST]

I think the date is the same just using reach's calander. I would support the way the game was done but there are some things i feel muck up how it should have been.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartan058 bill It definitely conflicts with TFoR book, which I've counted as canon because of what Bungie said before Reach came out. What disappoints me is that they ignored their own material (whether or not it counts as 'canon' is immaterial, because before the game Reach, it definitely was).[/quote] Um, no. Nothing in TFoR was ignored, the only thing that has changed at all are some of the reactions the characters in TFoR have to the Covenant being there on the 30th, and that's it. The two do not conflict and TFoR was not ignored. Both are canon and both fit to form one whole.

All of Noble Team's members have been pulled out of their ccompanies right after training, but they kept their numbers (A259, B312). In Waypoint, they had Noble Team Personel Profiles/Performence Reviews and even mentioned Rosenda-344 which was suppose to be Emile's replacement during anti-insurrection operations (this was ignored during Winter Contingency) and Thom was the former 6. As for the MAC cannons, I dont know wher they were at the time, but they wanted to blow the cruiser from the inside out, but the "bomb" malfunctioned and so Jorge stayed behind. I guess the MAC Cannons were destroyed when the future Arbiter, Thel Vadamee and his fleet destroyed them, they appear in the Matchmaking and in the Halo: Reach teaser trailer all in bits. Sorry for any spelling errors and if I'm wrong, plz don't bash me, just write it down in a response.

It definitely conflicts with TFoR book, which I've counted as canon because of what Bungie said before Reach came out. What disappoints me is that they ignored their own material (whether or not it counts as 'canon' is immaterial, because before the game Reach, it definitely was).

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartan058 bill I don't have time to read 124 pages of thread, but is it generally accepted that Bungie -blam!- up with the game Reach, wiping out the second half (give or take) of TFoR book? (Also thank god for the blam filter)[/quote] Bollocks! I know just as many, if not more, people who say that there's nothing canonically wrong with Reach as I do people who say it's a load of crap that completely trashed canon. So no, it is not "generally accepted" that Reach messed up canon. Canon is just fine, especially since we now have much more information in the form of the Data Drops that 343i released recently.

I don't have time to read 124 pages of thread, but is it generally accepted that Bungie -blam!- up with the game Reach, wiping out the second half (give or take) of TFoR book? (Also thank god for the blam filter)

I quoted the matu guy.

[b]@Fatal Factor[/b] ...Wait...are you saying that my arguments are a waste of space? Or are you talking to Matu Fip Krawfe..? Not cool, either way... [b]@Pipboy3070[/b] I posted a reply to you on the previous page of this thread in case your interested, but I had the wrong name written down. Oops. [Edited on 11.05.2011 8:55 AM PDT]

What a vacuous set of counterarguments. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Matu Flp Krawfe wordswordswordswords[/quote]